Mains sticking to crank...
- Thread starter Poser
- Start date
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Poser -- I know that you are looking for some help here but I can't
help but ask. Are you saying that these bearings were worn enough
to cause the crank to lock? And what does the crank itself look like?
If you put in new main bearings, or the 0.5 oversize mentioned in the
FSM, will you have to hone them in some way to get them to fit the
crank?
Just trying to learn something here.....
help but ask. Are you saying that these bearings were worn enough
to cause the crank to lock? And what does the crank itself look like?
If you put in new main bearings, or the 0.5 oversize mentioned in the
FSM, will you have to hone them in some way to get them to fit the
crank?
Just trying to learn something here.....
- Thread starter
- #5
rgentry said:
That is what I am thinking, as is Mark A. and Mark W.
The crank is clean other than a very minimal marking on the #2 main journal that matches the deep groove in the #2 main bearing halves.
I am looking at rolling in stock size bearings, not oversize. Oversize bearings would require far more machine work than anything one could do with the engeine in the frame.
Ask away man....that is what this forum is for....we all can learn something everyday out here, so long as we are paying attention.
I know that I learn things out here all the time.
When I was restoring my 74 I had my cruiser sand blasted. The company that did the work did not cover the motor and consequently shot silica sand into my motor. A few hundered miles later will cruising down the road at about 50 mph my rear wheels locked up, no prior warning. The motor was frozen solid and when I pulled it apart, my bearing where shot!
- Thread starter
- #7
I have spoke to Mark Whatley at some length about what is going on, and he wanted to see pics, so I took a few, hooked up with Lemon at the Carbones watering hole for some lunch and wireless pic posting...
Engine came in stuck solid. (Unbeknownst to me) Owner stated that the starter was bad, had it towed to the shop. I put a new gear reduction unit in thinking no biggie right? THUNK. No crank. Put the truck into fourth gear and tried to rock it back and forth, no go. Put ¾ drive breaker bar on 46mm socket and was afraid I was going to twist the nut off the end of the crank. No go.
Pull rocker cover; everything appears to be in order. Remove plugs and distributor, nothing out of the ordinary there. Plugs were clean and the distributor appeared to be fine. Drain the oil and drop the pan. Everything seems to be fine, no bent rods, no holes in the pistons; the rods are all free on the crank and not burnt looking. Decided to drop main bearing #2. I found a pretty deep groove in the front side of the lower portion of the bearing, and the crank has a rough spot that is symmetrical around the main journal, you can catch your nail on it, but it is definitely nothing that puts the crank into a ‘junk’ status. I then try and turn the engine over, and it moves! The #2 main cap and lower bearing are still in my hand mind you. I put the main back up and re-torque it. The engine rolls over almost twice and then locks up again.
I drop #3, and find nothing out of the ordinary, no markings no odd wear patterns, nothing. I then dropped #4 main, and found it to be significantly marred up compared to the others. I then rolled out the upper and it was in the same sad shape.
I dropped #1 and found nothing on the lower part of the bearing.
This is where I am. I called Mark A. and asked if he had a set of stock 2F mains on the shelf to measure, but no go and I have not bothered Mark W. with any more of this, until now.
I have a set of stock Toyota mains that I should have in my hands later next week, and I will measure them and provided they check out to what was in there, I will roll them in after dressing the crank journals with emery cloth, torque the caps and see if it turns over.
-Steve
Engine came in stuck solid. (Unbeknownst to me) Owner stated that the starter was bad, had it towed to the shop. I put a new gear reduction unit in thinking no biggie right? THUNK. No crank. Put the truck into fourth gear and tried to rock it back and forth, no go. Put ¾ drive breaker bar on 46mm socket and was afraid I was going to twist the nut off the end of the crank. No go.
Pull rocker cover; everything appears to be in order. Remove plugs and distributor, nothing out of the ordinary there. Plugs were clean and the distributor appeared to be fine. Drain the oil and drop the pan. Everything seems to be fine, no bent rods, no holes in the pistons; the rods are all free on the crank and not burnt looking. Decided to drop main bearing #2. I found a pretty deep groove in the front side of the lower portion of the bearing, and the crank has a rough spot that is symmetrical around the main journal, you can catch your nail on it, but it is definitely nothing that puts the crank into a ‘junk’ status. I then try and turn the engine over, and it moves! The #2 main cap and lower bearing are still in my hand mind you. I put the main back up and re-torque it. The engine rolls over almost twice and then locks up again.
I drop #3, and find nothing out of the ordinary, no markings no odd wear patterns, nothing. I then dropped #4 main, and found it to be significantly marred up compared to the others. I then rolled out the upper and it was in the same sad shape.
I dropped #1 and found nothing on the lower part of the bearing.
This is where I am. I called Mark A. and asked if he had a set of stock 2F mains on the shelf to measure, but no go and I have not bothered Mark W. with any more of this, until now.
I have a set of stock Toyota mains that I should have in my hands later next week, and I will measure them and provided they check out to what was in there, I will roll them in after dressing the crank journals with emery cloth, torque the caps and see if it turns over.
-Steve
I'm thinking if you can remove whatever scored those bearings from the crank then you will be fine with new stock sized bearings. Nice beauty marks on those you posted!
Nick
Nick
OK. Do you know if the oil pump is putting out enough juice? Could
that have led to the problems with the main bearings? Also, could
the crank be "out of round" at the points where it bolts into the block?
Could you plastigage the new bearings, turn the crank in 30 degree
increments and plastigage again to see if that might be a problem?
Or maybe I'm mistaken and you can get the crank without pulling
the motor.
I locked up my first 2F engine in 1978 by running with insufficient
oil. As I remember, my dad and I did an "in the frame" rebuild and
the crank was not really in that bad a shape.
that have led to the problems with the main bearings? Also, could
the crank be "out of round" at the points where it bolts into the block?
Could you plastigage the new bearings, turn the crank in 30 degree
increments and plastigage again to see if that might be a problem?
Or maybe I'm mistaken and you can get the crank without pulling
the motor.
I locked up my first 2F engine in 1978 by running with insufficient
oil. As I remember, my dad and I did an "in the frame" rebuild and
the crank was not really in that bad a shape.
Does the pistons move freely up and down when disconnected from the crank? I would think that the small grooves would not cause the engine to bind... Maybe a frozen wrist pin? I have seen that before in a couple of 3.0 v6's. The knocking sound is not very consistent but seems to go up in pitch as rpms go up. Just a guess let us know you find was the problem.
Oh yeah maybe bent crank too...?
- Thread starter
- #13
I have not even heard if it knocks... 
I am going to drop all the rod caps, and make sure the rods and pistions move freely...as easy as it rotates with the mains out however, you would think that a bad rod, wrist pin, etc would have shown up...
I am going to drop all the rod caps, and make sure the rods and pistions move freely...as easy as it rotates with the mains out however, you would think that a bad rod, wrist pin, etc would have shown up...
Poser said:
It looks like an engine that has been run with insufficient oiling. Having oil pressure doesn't guarantee that enough oil is flowing to the bearings. I haven't seen too many like that where the cause wasn't an obvious lack of oil pressure, but the ones I have seen were fresh rebuilts where the clearance was not checked by plastigauge and the bearings were too tight because the crank was ground incorrectly or the wrong bearings installed.
What's the history on this one?
Well since the wearing is isolated it is either insufficient oiling or debris in the oil. If something was locked up it would be even wearing across the bearing area. And if a wrist pin locked up the bearing area would be slightly flattened and most likely you would see some piston skirt in the oil pan. I would clean up the crank with fine fine emery cloth even though it may take a while, Slide in the new bearings, and clean out the oil pickup/filter etc. There are other ways to clean out an engine that i won't post because of those saying it's backwoods redneck but pm me if you wish. If there are debris they are likely still there. A piece of sand can cause the damage you have doesn't need a lot
- Thread starter
- #16
Engine looks to have come from an FJ-60, and it is in a 1974-40.
Reason why I say this is because the engine mounts on the frame are from a 60 series wagon, and bolted into place, and the radiator mounts were removed at one time, and have been bolted back into place, and are not riveted, nor does the driver side bracket have the provision for the hanger bearing for the PTO shaft to the winch.
The oil cooler has been removed and a oil filter bracket similar to what would be found on an a later F and earlier 2F is in its place. The lifter cover has teh dent in it for the larger bodied distributor to fit, but has a points unit for a distributor. The rocker cover and valve mech. all look to be the later style 2F, as does the intake and exhaust manifold, and remaining EGR goodies...
I noticed that the oil pressure sending unit lead has been butchered and has an aftermarket end on it that does not really want to lock onto the sender like the stock lead does. It also was not connected. Now, I do not know if I bumped the bundle of wires that seem to run everywhere when I was taking things apart and it fell off or if it has been off for some time. The owner stated that the instrumentation appeared normal the last time it was operated, and that he simply parked the truck, and then had went to start it again, and it would not roll over.
Something that he did say was that the starter did not want to turn the engine over the first revolution, and then sped up as it turned more. It apparently had been doing this for the last month or so, and was thought to be the starter giving up, as the lead to the starter from the battery, the ground lead and the battery are all secure and new, or within the year.
I do not think that I know anything other than this Charlie....
Reason why I say this is because the engine mounts on the frame are from a 60 series wagon, and bolted into place, and the radiator mounts were removed at one time, and have been bolted back into place, and are not riveted, nor does the driver side bracket have the provision for the hanger bearing for the PTO shaft to the winch.
The oil cooler has been removed and a oil filter bracket similar to what would be found on an a later F and earlier 2F is in its place. The lifter cover has teh dent in it for the larger bodied distributor to fit, but has a points unit for a distributor. The rocker cover and valve mech. all look to be the later style 2F, as does the intake and exhaust manifold, and remaining EGR goodies...
I noticed that the oil pressure sending unit lead has been butchered and has an aftermarket end on it that does not really want to lock onto the sender like the stock lead does. It also was not connected. Now, I do not know if I bumped the bundle of wires that seem to run everywhere when I was taking things apart and it fell off or if it has been off for some time. The owner stated that the instrumentation appeared normal the last time it was operated, and that he simply parked the truck, and then had went to start it again, and it would not roll over.
Something that he did say was that the starter did not want to turn the engine over the first revolution, and then sped up as it turned more. It apparently had been doing this for the last month or so, and was thought to be the starter giving up, as the lead to the starter from the battery, the ground lead and the battery are all secure and new, or within the year.
I do not think that I know anything other than this Charlie....
My 72 had a VERY small nick in the crank from a rebuild (it is amazing what a rod bolt can do) it looked VERY similar to what you have there.
A bit of fine grained sandpaper and a new bearing and I cannot tell the difference.
A bit of fine grained sandpaper and a new bearing and I cannot tell the difference.
by no means an endorsement to this fix, but.....
my now dearly departed nuclearlemon had a bit of the same issue. no oilpressure and what originally felt like rod bearings. turned out, rods were fine, mains were GONE. got new bearings from specter, but they sent the wrong ones (sent f instead of 2f). after MUCH ado, finally got correct bearings...got no 4 in and moved onto the next.
as a fluke, my buddy said 'let's bump the engine and look at the other side'...BAD IDEA! the crank was so worn away that there was a lip (like you mentioned) that filled the oil groove.
my buddy (who grew up with missionary parents in places like africa and brazil) went to the store, came home with string and emery cloth.
about an hour per journal and i'd sanded the crank journals down, but now i had undersized journals and standard bearings. after specter screwed up my bearings the first time, i wasn't going to try for another set, but steve said 'no problem, put them in'. he said i was never to run any oil lighter than 20w50 also.
drove from illinois to colorado towing a trailer and drove the cruiser hard for a few years afterwards...finally got rid of it over head gasket issues.
that same training is what i used to get romer's cruiser up and runnign when he locked up his motor by seizing the bearings to the crank...his cruiser is running great last i heard.
take it for what it's worth.
my now dearly departed nuclearlemon had a bit of the same issue. no oilpressure and what originally felt like rod bearings. turned out, rods were fine, mains were GONE. got new bearings from specter, but they sent the wrong ones (sent f instead of 2f). after MUCH ado, finally got correct bearings...got no 4 in and moved onto the next.
as a fluke, my buddy said 'let's bump the engine and look at the other side'...BAD IDEA! the crank was so worn away that there was a lip (like you mentioned) that filled the oil groove.
my buddy (who grew up with missionary parents in places like africa and brazil) went to the store, came home with string and emery cloth. about an hour per journal and i'd sanded the crank journals down, but now i had undersized journals and standard bearings. after specter screwed up my bearings the first time, i wasn't going to try for another set, but steve said 'no problem, put them in'. he said i was never to run any oil lighter than 20w50 also.
drove from illinois to colorado towing a trailer and drove the cruiser hard for a few years afterwards...finally got rid of it over head gasket issues.
that same training is what i used to get romer's cruiser up and runnign when he locked up his motor by seizing the bearings to the crank...his cruiser is running great last i heard.
take it for what it's worth.
