LX470 no crank, no start? (1 Viewer)

[richardse08]

Hey everyone,

I'm going to take one last stab at figuring out my 2000 LX470 issue. Long story short is, I had my brothers shop replace the AC compressor because I was hearing noise from the engine which only occurred with the serpentine belt on and the AC wasn't blowing cold air (the button was flashing as well). They replace the compressor, and there is still a noise from the engine. After researching, it seems the noise might be the fan bracket bearing going bad. My next step was to replace this part, but things got worse..

Out of nowhere, the engine decided not to start. My brother ran a jump box on it and it wouldn't start. I then had it towed to my house where I put my own jump box on it, still no start. Volts were showing at 2v which I thought was surprisingly low. I took the battery to the store and they tested it and confirmed it was a bad battery (this is the second time a brand new battery has failed in this vehicle in the past 12 months). With the new battery installed, the dash lights come on, and I DO get clicks from the starter relay, but I do not get a start. Some background info: the starter was replaced a year or so ago by myself (well the contacts were replaced, not the starter).

Can anyone point me in the right direction for the next step? I checked most of the connections in the engine bay thinking maybe something had come loose but no luck.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Was it starting immediately after the compressor and fan bracket replacement? If not, I'd point to something that got disconnected during those jobs. If yes, then I'd look at fuses, fuel, etc. as well as the starter possibly.

 

[AlpineAccess]

Look into the immobilizer, and then yes, check the crank position sensor wire which should be run behind the passenger timing belt cover but is often forgotten on install and run in front where the serpentine belt can chew on it. If were messing with the AC compressor that wire would be easy to leave hanging.

The fact that your batteries are dying points to something going on in the charging system. Typically batteries die when they are repeatedly ran low, or they are overcharged. Both can happen if your voltage regulator is on the fritz, can happen if the grounding/output wiring on the alt have bad connections, if the harness from the alternator is damaged/etc.

Your battery can be running down without your knowledge if a diode in the alt is failing, or more likely, if the brushes are almost gone. They will grab and have contact sometimes, but the dust from the brush material left in there can cause it to catch when it doesn't have enough spring pressure. It will result in low charging but this SHOULD trigger a CEL. Failing diodes will also cause undercharging, but the voltage regulator will try to make up for it which typically kills the alternator pretty quickly, also resulting in a CEL.

I would consider if you have any aftermarket electronics on the vehicle that could be interfering the proper charging signals, and then I'd use a mechanics steth to check the alternator while the vehicle is running for noise, and then check the charging voltage with a multimeter (positive wire on batt, ground it to block or frame somewhere, not across the battery terminals) and watch for fluctuations. Starting charging voltage should be peaking around 14-15, stabilized charging voltage after it tops up the battery from starting should average 13-14 and hold steady at whatever voltage it is sitting at. Meaning if its charging at 13.5 volts, it should be holding at 13.5 volts unless you are changing the drawing voltage.

Pull the serpentine belt off and spin everything, you will know what is making the noise pretty quickly that way. A shop should know this and should do this prior to replacing items. A mechanics stethoscope should also be a common tool and is one of the most valuable I have in my garage for figuring these kind of things out vs shot gunning parts.

Hope the AC starts working for you. My guess is the compressor is not the issue (it rarely is on land cruisers) but there is a leak somewhere in the system - most often it is the rear AC line connections under the vehicle, 2/3 the way back on the frame.

 

[richardse08]

Was it starting immediately after the compressor and fan bracket replacement? If not, I'd point to something that got disconnected during those jobs. If yes, then I'd look at fuses, fuel, etc. as well as the starter possibly.

Hey trunk monkey, as soon as the compressor was replaced they ran the engine and it worked fine. Probably started it a half dozen times. Then a few hours later my brother went to try something and it wouldn't start.

 

[richardse08]

Look into the immobilizer, and then yes, check the crank position sensor wire which should be run behind the passenger timing belt cover but is often forgotten on install and run in front where the serpentine belt can chew on it. If were messing with the AC compressor that wire would be easy to leave hanging.

That's a really good point - I was wondering if it could have been something like that. I will check that.

Your battery can be running down without your knowledge if a diode in the alt is failing, or more likely, if the brushes are almost gone. They will grab and have contact sometimes, but the dust from the brush material left in there can cause it to catch when it doesn't have enough spring pressure. It will result in low charging but this SHOULD trigger a CEL. Failing diodes will also cause undercharging, but the voltage regulator will try to make up for it which typically kills the alternator pretty quickly, also resulting in a CEL.

I would consider if you have any aftermarket electronics on the vehicle that could be interfering the proper charging signals, and then I'd use a mechanics steth to check the alternator while the vehicle is running for noise, and then check the charging voltage with a multimeter (positive wire on batt, ground it to block or frame somewhere, not across the battery terminals) and watch for fluctuations. Starting charging voltage should be peaking around 14-15, stabilized charging voltage after it tops up the battery from starting should average 13-14 and hold steady at whatever voltage it is sitting at. Meaning if its charging at 13.5 volts, it should be holding at 13.5 volts unless you are changing the drawing voltage.

I replaced the alternator about a year ago, but it could be messed up. It also does have a subwoofer in it but its disconnected from the battery.

I can't check the alternator while its running though since it wont start

Pull the serpentine belt off and spin everything, you will know what is making the noise pretty quickly that way. A shop should know this and should do this prior to replacing items. A mechanics stethoscope should also be a common tool and is one of the most valuable I have in my garage for figuring these kind of things out vs shot gunning parts.

Hope the AC starts working for you. My guess is the compressor is not the issue (it rarely is on land cruisers) but there is a leak somewhere in the system - most often it is the rear AC line connections under the vehicle, 2/3 the way back on the frame.

That was the first thing I did when it was making noise originally, but everything seemed to be spinning okay - thought I did not inspect the fan bracket very closely when i did this. With the engine running for a few seconds with the belt off, it did not make the noise which is what pointed me to the compressor being the original issue. I'll definitely check those lines if the AC doesn't work once I get it running.

I am going to take a look at the CPS and see if that is disconnected/sheared. I'll report back!

 

[gregnash]

Any CELs? Could be that something got disconnected (like others have said) which is causing the no start issue.
Also could be that the EFI fuse (there are two) popped for whatever reason and thus you are getting the crank but no start issue.

 

[richardse08]

Any CELs? Could be that something got disconnected (like others have said) which is causing the no start issue.
Also could be that the EFI fuse (there are two) popped for whatever reason and thus you are getting the crank but no start issue.

Thanks for the feedback. I do have a code scanner but I am not pulling up any codes. I did briefly check the electrical connections in the motor since I replaced the starter recently and I imagine some could have come loose, but everything looks tight.

I did not know, however, that there are two EFI fuses. Are those fuses under the hood or in the kick panel? I'm pretty sure I checked all fuses, but I can recheck.

 

[richardse08]

Look into the immobilizer, and then yes, check the crank position sensor wire which should be run behind the passenger timing belt cover but is often forgotten on install and run in front where the serpentine belt can chew on it. If were messing with the AC compressor that wire would be easy to leave hanging.

Do you know to check to see if the immobilizer is the issue?

 

[AlpineAccess]

I'm sure someone can add to this, but for me it was putting the key in the ignition and watching the immobilizer "red key light" on the center dash (by HVAC controls?) turn off after a few seconds. If it stays on for more than a couple of seconds its killing the ignition because it doesn't recognize the key.

 

[richardse08]

I'm sure someone can add to this, but for me it was putting the key in the ignition and watching the immobilizer "red key light" on the center dash (by HVAC controls?) turn off after a few seconds. If it stays on for more than a couple of seconds its killing the ignition because it doesn't recognize the key.

I didn't realize that, I'm going to head outside and check on that to see if thats the case. Thanks for chiming in Alpine!! I'll let you know what happens

 

[richardse08]

Look into the immobilizer, and then yes, check the crank position sensor wire which should be run behind the passenger timing belt cover but is often forgotten on install and run in front where the serpentine belt can chew on it. If were messing with the AC compressor that wire would be easy to leave hanging.

Also, I just checked the front of the motor (don't have my tools on me to dig too deep), but I couldn't directly locate the CPS wire. However, I did check behind the belt and I see no loose wires or chewed up wires so I think that means the crank position sensor wire should likely be okay

 

[flintknapper]

I didn't realize that, I'm going to head outside and check on that to see if thats the case. Thanks for chiming in Alpine!! I'll let you know what happens

It can be a bit hard to see in the daylight.

 

[flintknapper]

Also, I just checked the front of the motor (don't have my tools on me to dig too deep), but I couldn't directly locate the CPS wire. However, I did check behind the belt and I see no loose wires or chewed up wires so I think that means the crank position sensor wire should likely be okay

That would mean your CAM position sensor wires are 'probably' OK (part of them are behind the front cover). Crank Position Sensor is lower at bottom of engine.

 

[gatormark91]

deleted

 

[gregnash]

Thanks for the feedback. I do have a code scanner but I am not pulling up any codes. I did briefly check the electrical connections in the motor since I replaced the starter recently and I imagine some could have come loose, but everything looks tight.

I did not know, however, that there are two EFI fuses. Are those fuses under the hood or in the kick panel? I'm pretty sure I checked all fuses, but I can recheck.

These are under the hood. The main box that is on the drivers side will have one standard 20a (I think) fuse and then there will be a larger relay looking fuse. If you check out the threads on the immobilizer bypass you will see what I am talking about. But I agree with Flint that you should check the immobilizer light when you put the key in the ignition. If the key is in and the light continues to blink you have another issue going on.

 

[richardse08]

That would mean your CAM position sensor wires are 'probably' OK (part of them are behind the front cover). Crank Position Sensor is lower at bottom of engine.

Hmm I'll see if I can find a diagram when its lighter out again and take another look, thanks for the tip

 

[richardse08]

These are under the hood. The main box that is on the drivers side will have one standard 20a (I think) fuse and then there will be a larger relay looking fuse. If you check out the threads on the immobilizer bypass you will see what I am talking about. But I agree with Flint that you should check the immobilizer light when you put the key in the ignition. If the key is in and the light continues to blink you have another issue going on.

I did check for the immobilizer light, but I think I was looking at the dash ( I do know what light you're talking about though). I will check again.

As for the EFI fuses, I checked all fuses in the engine bay and all are good :/

 

[TheBestCow]

Fuel, spark, air. Begin checking.

Re: crank position sensor - I had a situation where I was getting random stalls, but it would start back up. Turns out the last time the timing belt was done the shop didn’t route the wire back correctly and the belt started slicing into the wire.

Here’s a photo of the front of the engine from @2001LC that shows where the wire should tuck behind the bracket and down “into” the engine, and then pop out on the bottom left and wrap up to the sensor spot. You might see if it got disconnected while they were working on it at the plug in spot. Obviously, no sensor = no crank.

Update: Potential Culprit Found? —> 2000 LC Dies, Battery, Check Engine, AT Oil Temp Lights

Bumping this back up. Anyone else have thoughts on what I can be testing this weekend?

forum.ih8mud.com

Start with the simple things first: check the plug, check your wiring, check your battery terminals - are the wires really clamped down, check your ground, etc.

Edit: might be easier to see from under the engine — it’s right above the oil sending unit.

 

[richardse08]

Fuel, spark, air. Begin checking.

Re: crank position sensor - I had a situation where I was getting random stalls, but it would start back up. Turns out the last time the timing belt was done the shop didn’t route the wire back correctly and the belt started slicing into the wire.

Here’s a photo of the front of the engine from @2001LC that shows where the wire should tuck behind the bracket and down “into” the engine, and then pop out on the bottom left and wrap up to the sensor spot. You might see if it got disconnected while they were working on it at the plug in spot. Obviously, no sensor = no crank.

Update: Potential Culprit Found? —> 2000 LC Dies, Battery, Check Engine, AT Oil Temp Lights

Bumping this back up. Anyone else have thoughts on what I can be testing this weekend?

forum.ih8mud.com

Start with the simple things first: check the plug, check your wiring, check your battery terminals - are the wires really clamped down, check your ground, etc.

Edit: might be easier to see from under the engine — it’s right above the oil sending unit.

Good catch. I'll check that when I get some light.

Then again, if it was a bad CPS would the starter not turn over? I imagine a bad CPS would result in a no-start, but the engine would still try and turn over -- same goes for no compression/spark/fuel, right?

 

[gregnash]

I did check for the immobilizer light, but I think I was looking at the dash ( I do know what light you're talking about though). I will check again.

As for the EFI fuses, I checked all fuses in the engine bay and all are good :/

See @flintknapper post above for the immobilizer light.
If you have a master key, as soon as you insert in to the ignition that light will go out.
If you have a VALET key, the light will go out a second or two after you insert the key.
If you insert the key into the ignition and nothing happens (light stays on or blinks) then the key is unrecognized and will not allow the vehicle to start. Note that it will crank over but it will never actually "catch".