LX 570 WDH/Sway Bar Recommendation for Escape 21C Trailer (1 Viewer)

[CactusHopper]

Plus some photos for fun, to show more of the trailer... It's got three solar panels on the roof and a port to add more. We will probably replace the 12v battery with lithium but for now we are just going with the basics and seeing how we use it. Refrigerator is 12v, stove and heater is propane.

 

[TeCKis300]

Our Escape 21C was delivered from Canada a few weeks ago! I'd appreciate feedback on how the trailer sits and how the WDH is setup. This is with the AHC in Neutral. The cul-de-sac has a bit of a peak in elevation where the hitch is, so there is a tiny bit of slope to both the trailer and LX. The trailer has a 3 inch lift.

Tires are Michelin Defender LTX M/S 2 285/65 R18 XL.

Any thoughts on tire pressure loaded up? I'm anticipating a 600 lb tongue weight (5,000 lb trailer GVWR) and maxing the LX's payload (1,200 lbs or so). Normal RCTP from @gaijin is 34 psi. I tried 40 psi and it felt a bit bouncy/stiff so was thinking either stick with 34 or try 37-38.

Thanks!

View attachment 3987753

View attachment 3987754

You're good to go. Great looking setup btw and I'm always excited to see Escapes as they're great robust all season campers.

Yes, I would raise tire pressure on the rear axle. For more stability, better tire life, and MPG. 37-38 sounds perfect.

Couple minor things if you're looking to optimize

1. Breakaway chain hooks should be latched with open end facing backwards. Said another way, hook from below upwards. This is regarded as the safer / more secure orientation

2. Completely optional for this weight of trailer, but if you find you want more stability into high speed and less porpoising, you can cut the hitch stinger so it sits deeper in the receiver. This will bring the ball closer to the bumper to give less leverage to the trailer (and more control from the tow vehicle). Even 1-2" can make a pretty big difference.

 

[CactusHopper]

You're good to go. Great looking setup btw and I'm always excited to see Escapes as they're great robust all season campers.

Yes, I would raise tire pressure on the rear axle. For more stability, better tire life, and MPG. 37-38 sounds perfect.

Couple minor things if you're looking to optimize

1. Breakaway chain hooks should be latched with open end facing backwards. Said another way, hook from below upwards. This is regarded as the safer / more secure orientation

2. Completely optional for this weight of trailer, but if you find you want more stability into high speed and less porpoising, you can cut the hitch stinger so it sits deeper in the receiver. This will bring the ball closer to the bumper to give less leverage to the trailer (and more control from the tow vehicle). Even 1-2" can make a pretty big difference.

Thanks a lot. I was planning on moving the ball closer, though i wasn't sure if 1 inch would really matter...

I didn't know that about the hooks! I know to cross them but not the direction of clipping them on. Thanks.

We have our first campout this weekend. So far we are feeling good about our decision. I wanted an airstream but there were too many negatives. I feel like the Escape is the Toyota of trailers. : ) It's a good layout for a family of four too, checked lots of boxes for us.

 

[CactusHopper]

@TeCKis300 silly question but how do you hook back up to the Anderson WDH? We unhooked by removing the bottom plate (crescent shaped disc). Do you just back up, reattach it, pull forward gently to align the ball with the hitch? Isn't there a risk of then pulling the trailer by accident and damaging the foot?

Or do you have to slacken the chains, seat the ball, and re-tighten the chains?

 

[TeCKis300]

@TeCKis300 silly question but how do you hook back up to the Anderson WDH? We unhooked by removing the bottom plate (crescent shaped disc). Do you just back up, reattach it, pull forward gently to align the ball with the hitch? Isn't there a risk of then pulling the trailer by accident and damaging the foot?

Or do you have to slacken the chains, seat the ball, and re-tighten the chains?

I've always done it the latter way. Every WD hitch requires disengaging WD tension before hitching/unhitching. Just in the Anderson, it's adjustment is integral to disengaging. I was taught to count the number of threads behind the nut as a way to get the right WD back.

I've never tried removing the bottom plate but be careful of any tension as it would not be insignificant and definitely enough to mame. You'll find the lifting the tongue (with tongue jack) has the effect of reducing tension.

Don't bother optimizing the stinger unless you're finding you want to dial things in more. At the weight class, you'll probably be just fine.

 

[CactusHopper]

I've always done it the latter way. Every WD hitch requires disengaging WD tension before hitching/unhitching. Just in the Anderson, it's adjustment is integral to disengaging. I was taught to count the number of threads behind the nut as a way to get the right WD back.

I've never tried removing the bottom plate but be careful of any tension as it would not be insignificant and definitely enough to mame. You'll find the lifting the tongue (with tongue jack) has the effect of reducing tension.

Don't bother optimizing the stinger unless you're finding you want to dial things in more. At the weight class, you'll probably be just fine.

Thanks. The plate was easy to remove after raising the jack, without backing off the nuts. Sounds like some folks are able to achieve that but most are backing off the nuts (example discussion here: Andersen Weight Distribution Hitch - Install and take off. - https://www.forestriverforums.com/threads/andersen-weight-distribution-hitch-install-and-take-off.337186/)

Perhaps raising the AHC to high would have a similar effect...?

At least I'm thinking about it correctly. Nothing magic about it, just need to reduce tension to unhook and then re-tension to hook back up.

I'll need to go back and review discussions and watch some videos on getting the tension "ideal" for our setup. As someone with no experience, it's impossible to judge whether the trailer is towing well, other than gut feelings. When we moved it to our storage area, leaving our neighborhood (lots of turns) was a breeze and I didn't feel any sway on the highway at 65-70 mph, so presumably it's decent...

Cheers

 

[Nothinghead]

Our Escape 21C was delivered from Canada a few weeks ago! I'd appreciate feedback on how the trailer sits and how the WDH is setup. This is with the AHC in Neutral. The cul-de-sac has a bit of a peak in elevation where the hitch is, so there is a tiny bit of slope to both the trailer and LX. The trailer has a 3 inch lift.

Tires are Michelin Defender LTX M/S 2 285/65 R18 XL.

Any thoughts on tire pressure loaded up? I'm anticipating a 600 lb tongue weight (5,000 lb trailer GVWR) and maxing the LX's payload (1,200 lbs or so). Normal RCTP from @gaijin is 34 psi. I tried 40 psi and it felt a bit bouncy/stiff so was thinking either stick with 34 or try 37-38.

Thanks!

View attachment 3987753

View attachment 3987754

Obviously, you're on 18" wheels but a bump of a couple PSI should feel good for towing.

 

[Nothinghead]

We will probably replace the 12v battery with lithium but for now we are just going with the basics and seeing how we use it.

Changing to lithium was one of the best upgrades I've made to my trailer. It saves weight, you can move the battery inside and away from the tongue if tongue weight is a concern, you can get more accurate measurements of capacity remaining and it will last so many more charge/discharge cycles. With solar, you can stay boondocked so much longer.

 

[CactusHopper]

Changing to lithium was one of the best upgrades I've made to my trailer. It saves weight, you can move the battery inside and away from the tongue if tongue weight is a concern, you can get more accurate measurements of capacity remaining and it will last so many more charge/discharge cycles. With solar, you can stay boondocked so much longer.

It's on our to-do list along with an inverter. Escape charged a lot for lithium, only offered large footprint batteries in a sealed container, and required a U style dinette for a 3,000W inverter. So decided to build it ourselves but want to use the trailer a bit before jumping in.

 

[Nothinghead]

It's on our to-do list along with an inverter. Escape charged a lot for lithium, only offered large footprint batteries in a sealed container, and required a U style dinette for a 3,000W inverter. So decided to build it ourselves but want to use the trailer a bit before jumping in.

You'll appreciate it more, knowing how it compares to what you have now. Will you DIY it?

 

[CactusHopper]

DIY is the plan, but probably have a local consultant or RV shop confirm our design and inspect the final setup. We want to learn the system so we can troubleshoot or modify in the future, if needed.

 

[CactusHopper]

I am having an issue with our trailer braking. We are using the Redarc Tow Pro Elite on the Proportional setting. When we slow down from say 20 mph to 5 mph, for example in stop and go traffic, and then release our brakes to regain speed, we experience a large jolt from the trailer. It can even happen if we slow to a stop, pause with the brake active for 2-3 seconds, and then release the brake and start moving. When slowing, if I very slowly release the brake, I can feel that the trailer brakes are slowing the vehicle (it's clear something else is braking the vehicle) but then if I completely release the brake I get the jarring feeling.

We have the controller set to 1 and it's still doing it... The trailer is around 4,000 lbs dry and it does it dry or with our gear loaded, which is probably around 4,500 +/- a few hundred. We are using the Anderson WDH shown above.

Thanks

 

[smeagol]

Missed this thread. I tow an E23 with my LX570, and use a Redarc and Andersen as well.

Regarding your Redarc experience, I have had similar experience, never did any research on it. Not sure if that is expected behavior or not, I've tried to adjust my driving behavior to avoid this scenario.

Andersen seems to work fine on the trailer once adjusted well. My tongue weight varies widely; I have a 40 gal LRA tank, I swapped out my AHC for traditional shocks/springs (with rear airbags). Depending on the fuel level, how the vehicle and trailer are loaded, I find myself adjusting the airbags and Andersen hitch a bit. While I think highly of the AHC and its adjustable nature, I prefer the predictable firm ride of traditional springs/shocks (Bilstein in this situation). My AHC shocks were removed, but the rest of the components remain on the truck. I've been debating a new vehicle, so the next owner would have the option of swapping back.

I have been unhitching the Andersen by removing the triangle plate. I did similar with my previous trailer (Escape 19).
Pic for attention:

 

[CactusHopper]

Missed this thread. I tow an E23 with my LX570, and use a Redarc and Andersen as well.

Regarding your Redarc experience, I have had similar experience, never did any research on it. Not sure if that is expected behavior or not, I've tried to adjust my driving behavior to avoid this scenario.

Andersen seems to work fine on the trailer once adjusted well. My tongue weight varies widely; I have a 40 gal LRA tank, I swapped out my AHC for traditional shocks/springs (with rear airbags). Depending on the fuel level, how the vehicle and trailer are loaded, I find myself adjusting the airbags and Andersen hitch a bit. While I think highly of the AHC and its adjustable nature, I prefer the predictable firm ride of traditional springs/shocks (Bilstein in this situation). My AHC shocks were removed, but the rest of the components remain on the truck. I've been debating a new vehicle, so the next owner would have the option of swapping back.

I have been unhitching the Andersen by removing the triangle plate. I did similar with my previous trailer (Escape 19).
Pic for attention:
View attachment 4003345

Nearly identical vehicle and trailer, with same WDH and brake controller. What a coincidence.

Couple questions:

- Did you use Proportional breaking? I am wondering if it's occurring when decelerating quickly at low speeds and then releasing the brakes. Proportional locking it up due to a faster deceleration... I'm going to switch modes and see if it still occurs.
- What brake level were you using with the Escape?
- I am experiencing a lot of bounce and some forward-back tug of war particularly when on concrete roads. I think my ball may be an inch or so high so will be lowering it. Did you experience that with the LX and Escape? I had assumed based on others' experiences here that a 21 ft 4,500-ish lb would tow great. We feel it more than we expected, but this is our first ever trailer so it's hard to judge.
- We're still learning the WDH... It's a pain if not backing up aligned perfectly with the trailer. Did you have issues or just got used to lining up or straightening it out? What was your process?
- How much did you tighten your bolts on the WDH? How many threads? After using it a bit, we can generally hand tighten with the socket to 4 threads. It seems like we should be having to use a socket wrench to tighten it to a proper amount. Or are you never backing off the nut to remove the triangle plate? Basically - What's your unhitch/hitch process? : )

FYI, you're running larger wheels than I am... I wonder how different the towing feels between our setups. I sized up just a bit to a 285/65R18 XL. And of course the 21C is a bit longer and heavier.

Why did you sell the Escape and why are you considering selling the LX?

Thanks for the help.

 

[smeagol]

Nearly identical vehicle and trailer, with same WDH and brake controller. What a coincidence.

Couple questions:

- Did you use Proportional breaking? I am wondering if it's occurring when decelerating quickly at low speeds and then releasing the brakes. Proportional locking it up due to a faster deceleration... I'm going to switch modes and see if it still occurs.

Proportional, but I think it is worth trying the user controlled mode.

- What brake level were you using with the Escape?

I've adjusted it blindly while driving and I'm not certain exactly, but I want to say I settled around 4.

- I am experiencing a lot of bounce and some forward-back tug of war particularly when on concrete roads. I think my ball may be an inch or so high so will be lowering it. Did you experience that with the LX and Escape? I had assumed based on others' experiences here that a 21 ft 4,500-ish lb would tow great. We feel it more than we expected, but this is our first ever trailer so it's hard to judge.

I experienced a bit of this when the WDH tension was not high enough, tightening up the Andersen resolved it for me. I believe that behavior is what results when the WDH is too slack and cyles between no tension and under tension.

- We're still learning the WDH... It's a pain if not backing up aligned perfectly with the trailer. Did you have issues or just got used to lining up or straightening it out? What was your process?

Still more art than science. I make more of an effort to unhitch and hitch when the trailer and vehicle are aligned as best as possible. When I've run into real issues, I end up loosening the chains, hitching up, driving a bit (maybe just around the campground), then adjusting the chains and hopefully the triangle is mostly aligned by then.

- How much did you tighten your bolts on the WDH? How many threads? After using it a bit, we can generally hand tighten with the socket to 4 threads. It seems like we should be having to use a socket wrench to tighten it to a proper amount. Or are you never backing off the nut to remove the triangle plate? Basically - What's your unhitch/hitch process? : )

I have mine at about 4.5 threads. I haven't put a torque wrench on there, but my well calibrated arms would guess it's near 100 lb ft, similar to lug nuts. I had to put more tension on the chains than I expected, but my trailer is heavier (4600 lbs dry). The difference between not well adjusted and well adjusted was night and day for my setup, and the Andersen tension was key. I'd suggest giving that a try, I suspect it will solve your issues (assuming no other issues are present in your setup).

I hitch up like described in this video. He also mentions how he deals with the alignment issue.

FYI, you're running larger wheels than I am... I wonder how different the towing feels between our setups. I sized up just a bit to a 285/65R18 XL. And of course the 21C is a bit longer and heavier.

Hauling the 23 around is definitely different than when I was pulling the 19. Getting the WDH setup correctly is a bit tricky, but made all the difference between white knuckle driving and stress free cruising. Towing with heavier ply tires definitely helps stability, but the change in effective gearing hurt acceleration and fuel economy. I've been trying to avoid the supercharger threads in the forum

Why did you sell the Escape and why are you considering selling the LX?

I still have the E23; I bought one of the earliest models sold. I had an Escape 19 (and a Bigfoot before that), but upgraded because a newer, bigger trailer sounded great. We have 2 girls and a big dog, so the extra space is definitely appreciated, but it also meant that we could put more *stuff* in the trailer. Resulted in a lot more cargo and weight. If I had my way, we'd have a more minimal camper that was maybe focused for overlanding, like a Kimberley Karavan. I prefer a more minimal experience, and the wife and kids are more into glamping. You can tell I'm going to win this battle. I suppose I should just be grateful they'll go camping at all..

I should state (to remind myself) that the LX has worked out stellar for us, so there is no strong complaints. It's been reliable, powerful, incredibly smooth and comfortable. However.. I would love to have something a bit more updated and modern. Newer LX or LC would be great, and also get the 8 speed transmission (which has had some behavioral issues, but should be improved with an aftermarket tune). Also eyeballing the GX550, but concerned about the V6TT engine durability/longevity. If I ever was successful in transitioning back to a lighter camper, I'd consider an LC250 or 4Runner. Anyways, I've also had the LX for 5 years, and I'm not known to keep a vehicle in the stable for a long time. I was in a different financial state then, and would have hunted for a 2016+ LC if I had my way.

Thanks for the help.

 

[CactusHopper]

Thanks a lot, this is super helpful. We are at about 4-5 threads, so similar. However, I think the last two times I hitched up I hitched up in LOW AHC (which is what the manual states to do). This will raise the vehicle to neutral though, so I'm sure my chains were a bit loose. The AHC may also create a bit more bounce in the ride vs w/o AHC, so that may just be the price I pay. Just hard to know if it's normal w/o experience.

Interesting you went to the 23. We also have two daughters (9 and 11) but no dog. The 23 was appealing but 1) I anticipated it would put us over our payload and I wasn't willing to do that due to lack of experience and general safety, and 2) the dinette design didn't make any sense to us for 4 people. We couldn't see how 4 people could sit comfortably and play a game, eat, etc. So we went with the 21C with traditional dinette. We also considered the 21NE but it just felt more crowded and less cozy, plus the kitchen counter space was less. We are coming from world traveling, camping, and Scouting, so we are ok being fairly minimal. We'll see how we go after a year or two.... : )

I don't think I could downsize the vehicle for 4 people. We moved up from a Tacoma, then GX460, to the LX. I like the size of the LX for driving and storage. It's a bit too bouncy for my taste but not horrible. I suppose removing AHC could help solve that...

I wasn't a fan of the new gen LX looks from the outside and even the viewing angles seemed worse due to a slight beefier (?) hood... Wasn't worth the extra cost to us. LC250 would be great if not for having kids... I think I'd go up to an Expedition or F150/250 but we just hated the size and the viewing angles from the front with those vehicles. We also wanted the off-road capabilities and reliability of the LX as we do a lot of beach driving.

 

[smeagol]

We are at about 4-5 threads, so similar.

Just a quick note that the thread count is probably an inaccurate means of comparing tension to another vehicle setup, as it will be dependent on chain length and bracket installation.

I think you'll find a happy configuration if you continue testing with the Andersen; for me it just required more tension than I had expected.

 

[Nothinghead]

It's a bit too bouncy for my taste but not horrible. I suppose removing AHC could help solve

It sounds like your AHC might need some servicing (fluid +/- globes).

 

[TeCKis300]

Thanks a lot, this is super helpful. We are at about 4-5 threads, so similar. However, I think the last two times I hitched up I hitched up in LOW AHC (which is what the manual states to do). This will raise the vehicle to neutral though, so I'm sure my chains were a bit loose. The AHC may also create a bit more bounce in the ride vs w/o AHC, so that may just be the price I pay. Just hard to know if it's normal w/o experience.

Interesting you went to the 23. We also have two daughters (9 and 11) but no dog. The 23 was appealing but 1) I anticipated it would put us over our payload and I wasn't willing to do that due to lack of experience and general safety, and 2) the dinette design didn't make any sense to us for 4 people. We couldn't see how 4 people could sit comfortably and play a game, eat, etc. So we went with the 21C with traditional dinette. We also considered the 21NE but it just felt more crowded and less cozy, plus the kitchen counter space was less. We are coming from world traveling, camping, and Scouting, so we are ok being fairly minimal. We'll see how we go after a year or two.... : )

I don't think I could downsize the vehicle for 4 people. We moved up from a Tacoma, then GX460, to the LX. I like the size of the LX for driving and storage. It's a bit too bouncy for my taste but not horrible. I suppose removing AHC could help solve that...

I wasn't a fan of the new gen LX looks from the outside and even the viewing angles seemed worse due to a slight beefier (?) hood... Wasn't worth the extra cost to us. LC250 would be great if not for having kids... I think I'd go up to an Expedition or F150/250 but we just hated the size and the viewing angles from the front with those vehicles. We also wanted the off-road capabilities and reliability of the LX as we do a lot of beach driving.

I agree with @smeagol that you do not have enough WD tension. On any WD hitch, there's significant tension necessary for it to do it's job of transferring hundreds of pounds across the length of the car. On the Anderson, there will be more tension still because of its horizontal tensioned architecture.

There isn't a thread count to shoot for as every setup will be different. I remember i had 7 threads showing on my previous setup.

Go up 2-3 more threads. If it's working, go one more still, and one more again, until you find diminishing returns as you can always back off easily enough.

To hitch, you should be in AHC High and/or use the tongue jack to lift the ball up higher than ride height. At that point, you should tension the chains to be rather tight. Then lower AHC to Normal and/or full retract the tongue jack. There should be no slack and significant tension in the weight distribution chains.

The red bushings should show some good compression/bulge (image from Andersen's media).

AHC should not be a compromise with bounce unless there is a mechanical issue.. Static suspensions aren't a band aid either for not enough WD tension, as there you'll be dealing with the same seesaw, but with more squat, and a less comfortable ride.

Depending on your tongue weight, it is wholly possible the Andersen doesn't provide sufficient weight transfer. Without that, the rig works as a seesaw about the rear axle. You need enough weight transfer to the front axle to get out of this seesaw equilibrium where it can't decide which way to take a set hence the bounce.

As mentioned earlier, you might want to modify the drop hitch to bring the ball in closer. As that gives the tow vehicle more leverage (weight on one side of the seesaw), requiring less WD tension for it to find its happy place.

Maybe take a picture of your tensioned setup at ride height, particularly of the red bushing. What is its free length versus tensioned length?

 

[CactusHopper]

I agree with @smeagol that you do not have enough WD tension. On any WD hitch, there's significant tension necessary for it to do it's job of transferring hundreds of pounds across the length of the car. On the Anderson, there will be more tension still because of its horizontal tensioned architecture.

There isn't a thread count to shoot for as every setup will be different. I remember i had 7 threads showing on my previous setup.

Go up 2-3 more threads. If it's working, go one more still, and one more again, until you find diminishing returns as you can always back off easily enough.

To hitch, you should be in AHC High and/or use the tongue jack to lift the ball up higher than ride height. At that point, you should tension the chains to be rather tight. Then lower AHC to Normal and/or full retract the tongue jack. There should be no slack and significant tension in the weight distribution chains.

The red bushings should show some good compression/bulge (image from Andersen's media).View attachment 4003983

AHC should not be a compromise with bounce unless there is a mechanical issue.. Static suspensions aren't a band aid either for not enough WD tension, as there you'll be dealing with the same seesaw, but with more squat, and a less comfortable ride.

Depending on your tongue weight, it is wholly possible the Andersen doesn't provide sufficient weight transfer. Without that, the rig works as a seesaw about the rear axle. You need enough weight transfer to the front axle to get out of this seesaw equilibrium where it can't decide which way to take a set hence the bounce.

As mentioned earlier, you might want to modify the drop hitch to bring the ball in closer. As that gives the tow vehicle more leverage (weight on one side of the seesaw), requiring less WD tension for it to find its happy place.

Maybe take a picture of your tensioned setup at ride height, particularly of the red bushing. What is its free length versus tensioned length?

Thanks for the information and advice. Pretty sure we were not tight enough. I also now understand that you should be measuring the drop in the height across all wheels once hooked up and tightened to confirm how weight is distributing.

To confirm distribution is ideal and thus tightness is ideal, my plan is to:

1. Set AHC to Neutral and measure ground to fender (tape a mark) to document normal height
2. Turn OFF AHC
3. Hook it up, tighten it, and measure reduction in height across all tires
4. Modify tightness if not balanced front to back
5. Turn on AHC and confirm AHC re-levels to Step 1 heights (the system should do this when turning back on, correct?)

I also think our ball could be dropped one setting/level, so I'm going to measure tongue height at various points and confirm we are getting the trailer as level as possible. We will probably keep to 65 mph most of the time, so I'm going to focus on level without the additional AHC drop at 66 mph. Although traveling at 65 mph is kind of a PITA with AHC b/c inevitably I'm hitting 66 mph so AHC is raising/lowering frequently. Not really ideal... So I'm debating sticking to 67-70 mph vs 65 mph... That's something we can always adjust later though - i want to first deal with the bounciness and then we can adjust based on speed preferences.

Other questions for everyone:

- I have a slight lean on the LX to the driver's side (less than 1/4 inch) that I know is common. Is this worth worrying about wrt towing?
- Do you grease the hitch ball?
- There is a bit of play in the hitch and receiver (horizontal and vertical). It has already rubbed clean the paint on the hitch and really "polished" the inside of the receiver. Is that an issue? Have any of you gotten custom fab'd hitches to remove all play? Do you use something like these? (https://www.etrailer.com/Hitch-Anti~Rattle/etrailer/e38FV.html?feed=npn or https://www.etrailer.com/tv-Demo-Softride-Locks-Hitch-Accessories-SR25219.aspx)

Thanks a lot