I'm takin' the fifth...
You mean pleading, right?
LSJ 73 Resto Mod - The Flying Burrito
- Thread starter wardharris
- Start date
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You mean pleading, right?
- Thread starter
- #282
I quit drinking, so pleading - not swallowing
- Thread starter
- #283
In WA/BC the term is "rustneck" or mold monkey
Sure they've already fingered out what's going to happen, but rear driveshaft length was what necessitated scrapping the idea of A343F/HF2A (no V even) on the VMJ73 planned conversion.
Granted, lifted and long linked, which does factor in, but was too short to run a double cardan at the TC and still be able to extend the slip yoke and driveline was too steep to run parallel output flanges on TC and third.
Enter the H151F/HF1A and lost 15" in OAL, about the only way I could see to do it.
Granted, lifted and long linked, which does factor in, but was too short to run a double cardan at the TC and still be able to extend the slip yoke and driveline was too steep to run parallel output flanges on TC and third.
Enter the H151F/HF1A and lost 15" in OAL, about the only way I could see to do it.
I feel sorry for people who don't drink.
When they get up in the morning that is as good as they are going to feel all day......
I feel sorry for people who don't drink.
When they get up in the morning that is as good as they are going to feel all day......
Oldie but a goodie.
Just like me...
Man, you might be older than that saying...
I thot I was that saying.....
- Thread starter
- #290
WTF? When I pull this xxxx the thread gets sent to chat!
- Thread starter
- #291
If need be we can go forward 2"....
When they get up in the morning that is as good as they are going to feel all day......
May be.....but they wake up next to a 10, not a 2 that was a 10 the night before.
I'm jealous of your close proximity to a shop capable of the conversion.
I'd gladly drop off my junk and wads of Benjis, today, so I can drive the 73 before I'm too old to clutch....which will be a long damn time.
- Thread starter
- #293
Mudship the damn thing to Tor and get er done...
- Thread starter
- #294
Not true - some days get better, especially if a Landcruiser is involved (driving, buying parts, hanging out with Cruiserheads, etc.)I feel sorry for people who don't drink.
When they get up in the morning that is as good as they are going to feel all day......
Also, when I get up in the morning, it is reasonably certain that I will not go to bed 15 or 16 hours later in the care of the local constabulary.
- Thread starter
- #295
BACK ON TECH.....
For those of you that absolutely, positively, gotta fawkin' have a 5 speed, here is a shiny new Vortec bolted up to an H55F by way of a bellhousing adapter and some other technical stuff in there. Keeps the trans/TC in about the same position as original layout.
Not my junk - but another Torfab production on its way into a 60. These LC9 / eRod crate motors are sweet - clean, cheap, easy to acquire and they come with all the parts plus a 24 month GM factory warranty.
My Norse gear guru and his gang have a swap waiting list kind of like the one for Seahawks season tickets...
For those of you that absolutely, positively, gotta fawkin' have a 5 speed, here is a shiny new Vortec bolted up to an H55F by way of a bellhousing adapter and some other technical stuff in there. Keeps the trans/TC in about the same position as original layout.
Not my junk - but another Torfab production on its way into a 60. These LC9 / eRod crate motors are sweet - clean, cheap, easy to acquire and they come with all the parts plus a 24 month GM factory warranty.
My Norse gear guru and his gang have a swap waiting list kind of like the one for Seahawks season tickets...
- Thread starter
- #296
TECH QUESTIONS
There have been some offline questions about build details. Here are rambling notes with explicit/implicit questions underlined.
If you are interested in this build and want to ask questions on or off line - feel free to post or PM
1. Why replace a functional 3B in need of some help with a gas V8? Power output and range across RPMs, quick response and good economics while maintaining universal parts and service access. Owner is not a skilled mechanic, so somebody gotta do the real work and while there are plenty of diesel techs out there, 30 year old 4 cyl Toyotas are a rare beast, at least in US - if I lived in BC I might have made a different decision. Also, it appears that my wife is excited about driving the rig and the combination of gas/auto vs. diesel/manual was well received by her.
2. How we gonna do it? Basically replicating the mechanical elements in Torfab's swap for @theron on his 60 (https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/bean-my-fj60-build-and-adventure.794299/) last year. Same engine/trans kit (LC9/4L65E) from GM, including ECM, TCM, DBW pedal assy, harness, accessories, drive kit, manifolds, cats, instructions, warranty and dealer support (for programming ECM and warranty).
3. Where? Tor Slinning at Torfab in Mukilteo (half hour north of Seattle, WA) has done all PM and upgrade work on my three cruisers since moving from Northern Cal and the care of Valley Hybrids (thanks, Georg!). That included a remotor of my FJ62 with a Gen II 5.7 V8. Torfab is as good as it gets, especially on Vortec swaps. If you are in the western USA or Canada, I am not aware of a better solution. Other fine shops in the Pacific time zone (Radd, EBI, AETB, Mudrack, Valley Hybrids, etc.) but Torfab has a proven history of consistent delivery of Vortec swaps (lots of diesels, too). At this point, the choice of DIY or which shop is kind of like human surgery. Yes, I could do my own appendectomy, but I would rather hire a pro - one that has done a number of similar or identical procedures recently. Not sure if anyone has done more 60 series crate motor swaps than Tor. I know that the motor placement, transmission adaptation, motor/trans mounts, wiring, exhaust configuration, driveline/suspension, cooling (eng, trans, AC), instrumentation, etc. can all vary, even within a given model. Torfab has done enough of these to have standardized the parts, processes, procedures, etc. like the surgical center and surgeon. The results in both cases are generally more favorable, economical, timely and low-stress. Not a commercial for this or any shop, just sayin' how I came to make the decision. Another factor is/would be state/local/federal emissions. The LC9 engine (or engine/trans package) is different than the eRod, in that the eRod version (of exactly the same motor) includes GM paperwork, documentation and support to qualify as a 50-state EPA/CARB approved replacement engine. It adds a few hundred dollars to the kit price but without the added elements, you cannot qualify for the program. I live in a non-smog county in Washington state, plus there is a 25 year exemption here so I have no smog requirements, nor will a Washington buyer (though I am not looking to sell). IF I were still a California resident, an eRod install into a 73 could be problematic because California requires a physical inspection to ensure that the installation conforms to the eRod install specs, including placement of two cats in a given location near the exhaust manifold flanges. Things are tight in that region of a 7X, 4X or even a 6X or 8X series. It can be done, but expertise in design, installation and coordination with the state inspector/referee are required. The resulting cost could add up, which may explain why some California shops avoid gas swaps - or so I am told.
4. How much? These buy and drive kits are well supported by GM and you can order from your local Mr. Goodwrench or shop online. Package price for eng/trans around $12-13,000. Misc parts and labor can vary a lot. A fair estimate to do it right If the rest of the truck is in good shape mechanically would be a parts/labor budget of another 50 to 100% of the motor/trans cost for a total of around $18,000 plus extras. One example not included - the ECM in the kit does not support cruise control (long story) but an aftermarket module can be had for an extra $500, which we are installing. Another "upgrade" - the 60 swaps allow use of GM OEM headers included in the LC9 kit, but the narrower 7X frame rails require more closely fitting block-huggers and slight additional cost. Likewise, the engine compartment is smaller, hence possible elimination or relocation of second battery. On that note, if you are thinking of swapping a GM into a 24 volt truck, you'll need to either convert to 12 volt or run a secondary 12 volt system in addition to the 24 volt grid. TC rebuild/upgrades, joints, driveshaft modifications, etc. all can add up. You might want to consider upgrading the rear axle/diffs while you are at it. My former Vortec FJ62 blew up a stock diff - apparently due to operator abuse, but that's another story. My 73 has a full-floater, so I am feeling ok with the stocker I have. All those items/issues can add to the bar tab.
5. When / how long? I can only speak to Torfab's experience AS I UNDERSTAND IT as a customer. The use of a GM crate motor eliminates the risk of a take-out from a salvage yard. If you go used, you can save some money, but the Gen III engines out there are racking up some miles and they can be pricey. I bought and Tor installed a low mileage Vortec and it worked out fine, but I know of two other installs where "guaranteed" used motors were defective. The yards made good but shops ate the labor for removing/replacing and it took weeks longer for the customer to get his truck back. Scope-creep can also delay completion. Adding other upgrades takes time - suspension, voltage conversion, paint, interior, other accessories all add to downtime, especially if the add-ons come during the build. If the engine/body combination have been done by the shop before and no major components need to be customized ("Gee, since we are doing an H55, I'd really like to have a PTO winch, so lets find a tranny that can support the winch"). I am not aware of any North American 7X trucks with a Vortec, so while this build is very similar to a 60 swap, we are on new ground for some other issues. Tor builds some of the components in-house (motor mounts, air boxes, etc.) but they are fairly straightforward, so should not impact the build clock/calendar. My best guess is that if all the issues / options are nailed down, if all the parts are pre-sourced, if no unpleasant surprises appear and if the shop doesn't have any staff or client emergencies, you are looking at around three to four weeks from drop-off to pick-up. Outsourcing of exhaust and air conditioning are required, but those are short term elements of the build. My truck is getting new springs, winch, 24 to 12 rewire, TC rebuild (waiting on parts), addition of AC, console, seat heaters, cruise control, etc. that will extend its stay at Torfab to five or six weeks, not including a week or so at the upholstery shop (marine carpet, headliner and roof refresh). The goal is to have it on the road after debug/shakedown by April 1.
6. What else? The Burrito has evolved from a local garbage hauler to a long-haul expedition rig and daily driver - including Seattle traffic, highway travel, fire/forest service/logging roads and the occasional trail. As such, the truck is replacing another vehicle, making that other acquisition unnecessary. I like the wheelbase, suspension, seating position and other attributes of the 73/74 series enough to pay up to zero-time the drivetrain and suspension while completely replacing the interior, rubbers, seals, etc. It won't be as pretty as the LHD BJ74 that @Shes Mad created, since we are not doing a frame-off restoration (just new body mounts). The paint is new, the windshield frame will be replaced, etc. so it should look pretty nice. With the Vortec, it may be possible to change to a 3.73 diff ratio for lower cruise revs, as I did on the FJ62 wagon. We need to see after the initial shake-down. If that is the case, air lockers or elockers will replace the original units. Another possibility is an underdrive to add some lower ratios. Sliders a are on the list as well. Need to see how exhaust/etc. shape up before we go there. I bump into things at both ends and the sides, so to complete armor and to accommodate towing (boat and utility trailers plus possible camper trailer) a Kaymar or 4x4 Labs rear are on the horizon.
Keep ya posted.
There have been some offline questions about build details. Here are rambling notes with explicit/implicit questions underlined.
If you are interested in this build and want to ask questions on or off line - feel free to post or PM
1. Why replace a functional 3B in need of some help with a gas V8? Power output and range across RPMs, quick response and good economics while maintaining universal parts and service access. Owner is not a skilled mechanic, so somebody gotta do the real work and while there are plenty of diesel techs out there, 30 year old 4 cyl Toyotas are a rare beast, at least in US - if I lived in BC I might have made a different decision. Also, it appears that my wife is excited about driving the rig and the combination of gas/auto vs. diesel/manual was well received by her.
2. How we gonna do it? Basically replicating the mechanical elements in Torfab's swap for @theron on his 60 (https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/bean-my-fj60-build-and-adventure.794299/) last year. Same engine/trans kit (LC9/4L65E) from GM, including ECM, TCM, DBW pedal assy, harness, accessories, drive kit, manifolds, cats, instructions, warranty and dealer support (for programming ECM and warranty).
3. Where? Tor Slinning at Torfab in Mukilteo (half hour north of Seattle, WA) has done all PM and upgrade work on my three cruisers since moving from Northern Cal and the care of Valley Hybrids (thanks, Georg!). That included a remotor of my FJ62 with a Gen II 5.7 V8. Torfab is as good as it gets, especially on Vortec swaps. If you are in the western USA or Canada, I am not aware of a better solution. Other fine shops in the Pacific time zone (Radd, EBI, AETB, Mudrack, Valley Hybrids, etc.) but Torfab has a proven history of consistent delivery of Vortec swaps (lots of diesels, too). At this point, the choice of DIY or which shop is kind of like human surgery. Yes, I could do my own appendectomy, but I would rather hire a pro - one that has done a number of similar or identical procedures recently. Not sure if anyone has done more 60 series crate motor swaps than Tor. I know that the motor placement, transmission adaptation, motor/trans mounts, wiring, exhaust configuration, driveline/suspension, cooling (eng, trans, AC), instrumentation, etc. can all vary, even within a given model. Torfab has done enough of these to have standardized the parts, processes, procedures, etc. like the surgical center and surgeon. The results in both cases are generally more favorable, economical, timely and low-stress. Not a commercial for this or any shop, just sayin' how I came to make the decision. Another factor is/would be state/local/federal emissions. The LC9 engine (or engine/trans package) is different than the eRod, in that the eRod version (of exactly the same motor) includes GM paperwork, documentation and support to qualify as a 50-state EPA/CARB approved replacement engine. It adds a few hundred dollars to the kit price but without the added elements, you cannot qualify for the program. I live in a non-smog county in Washington state, plus there is a 25 year exemption here so I have no smog requirements, nor will a Washington buyer (though I am not looking to sell). IF I were still a California resident, an eRod install into a 73 could be problematic because California requires a physical inspection to ensure that the installation conforms to the eRod install specs, including placement of two cats in a given location near the exhaust manifold flanges. Things are tight in that region of a 7X, 4X or even a 6X or 8X series. It can be done, but expertise in design, installation and coordination with the state inspector/referee are required. The resulting cost could add up, which may explain why some California shops avoid gas swaps - or so I am told.
4. How much? These buy and drive kits are well supported by GM and you can order from your local Mr. Goodwrench or shop online. Package price for eng/trans around $12-13,000. Misc parts and labor can vary a lot. A fair estimate to do it right If the rest of the truck is in good shape mechanically would be a parts/labor budget of another 50 to 100% of the motor/trans cost for a total of around $18,000 plus extras. One example not included - the ECM in the kit does not support cruise control (long story) but an aftermarket module can be had for an extra $500, which we are installing. Another "upgrade" - the 60 swaps allow use of GM OEM headers included in the LC9 kit, but the narrower 7X frame rails require more closely fitting block-huggers and slight additional cost. Likewise, the engine compartment is smaller, hence possible elimination or relocation of second battery. On that note, if you are thinking of swapping a GM into a 24 volt truck, you'll need to either convert to 12 volt or run a secondary 12 volt system in addition to the 24 volt grid. TC rebuild/upgrades, joints, driveshaft modifications, etc. all can add up. You might want to consider upgrading the rear axle/diffs while you are at it. My former Vortec FJ62 blew up a stock diff - apparently due to operator abuse, but that's another story. My 73 has a full-floater, so I am feeling ok with the stocker I have. All those items/issues can add to the bar tab.
5. When / how long? I can only speak to Torfab's experience AS I UNDERSTAND IT as a customer. The use of a GM crate motor eliminates the risk of a take-out from a salvage yard. If you go used, you can save some money, but the Gen III engines out there are racking up some miles and they can be pricey. I bought and Tor installed a low mileage Vortec and it worked out fine, but I know of two other installs where "guaranteed" used motors were defective. The yards made good but shops ate the labor for removing/replacing and it took weeks longer for the customer to get his truck back. Scope-creep can also delay completion. Adding other upgrades takes time - suspension, voltage conversion, paint, interior, other accessories all add to downtime, especially if the add-ons come during the build. If the engine/body combination have been done by the shop before and no major components need to be customized ("Gee, since we are doing an H55, I'd really like to have a PTO winch, so lets find a tranny that can support the winch"). I am not aware of any North American 7X trucks with a Vortec, so while this build is very similar to a 60 swap, we are on new ground for some other issues. Tor builds some of the components in-house (motor mounts, air boxes, etc.) but they are fairly straightforward, so should not impact the build clock/calendar. My best guess is that if all the issues / options are nailed down, if all the parts are pre-sourced, if no unpleasant surprises appear and if the shop doesn't have any staff or client emergencies, you are looking at around three to four weeks from drop-off to pick-up. Outsourcing of exhaust and air conditioning are required, but those are short term elements of the build. My truck is getting new springs, winch, 24 to 12 rewire, TC rebuild (waiting on parts), addition of AC, console, seat heaters, cruise control, etc. that will extend its stay at Torfab to five or six weeks, not including a week or so at the upholstery shop (marine carpet, headliner and roof refresh). The goal is to have it on the road after debug/shakedown by April 1.
6. What else? The Burrito has evolved from a local garbage hauler to a long-haul expedition rig and daily driver - including Seattle traffic, highway travel, fire/forest service/logging roads and the occasional trail. As such, the truck is replacing another vehicle, making that other acquisition unnecessary. I like the wheelbase, suspension, seating position and other attributes of the 73/74 series enough to pay up to zero-time the drivetrain and suspension while completely replacing the interior, rubbers, seals, etc. It won't be as pretty as the LHD BJ74 that @Shes Mad created, since we are not doing a frame-off restoration (just new body mounts). The paint is new, the windshield frame will be replaced, etc. so it should look pretty nice. With the Vortec, it may be possible to change to a 3.73 diff ratio for lower cruise revs, as I did on the FJ62 wagon. We need to see after the initial shake-down. If that is the case, air lockers or elockers will replace the original units. Another possibility is an underdrive to add some lower ratios. Sliders a are on the list as well. Need to see how exhaust/etc. shape up before we go there. I bump into things at both ends and the sides, so to complete armor and to accommodate towing (boat and utility trailers plus possible camper trailer) a Kaymar or 4x4 Labs rear are on the horizon.
Keep ya posted.
You forgot to mention that the 3B will live the rest of its life in God's country and will be treated in a fashion suitable for royality.
It's going in a bass boat?
- Thread starter
- #299
Now that's really funny.
