Lower control arm bolts (1 Viewer)

[Golgo13]

I'll post pictures and prices tonight or tomorrow morning. I had a long afternoon dealing with some rusted bolts. I'm running out of patience.

Sounds like you're making some really precise stuff there. I can't think of many things which require that sort of precision except aircraft, spacecraft, and nuclear reactors. Sounds like fun! I like when we localize production for fasteners or bolted joints. That is always a very deep design study to make sure everything is OK.

I'm in the process of swapping my real axle with parts from CruiserYard. The dealer was able to get all the appropriate fasteners. The only thing which was on backorder were the bolts for the sway-bar brackets. Technically only the dealer can get the correct bolts. However, if you have access to equipment to test your own, or sufficient information, there isn't a reason you couldn't find another source. If you can figure out the axial tension in the bolt and then find fasteners which can reproduce it, then you don't need the dealers bolts. Of course, it is a lot easier to just call Onur or Dan and see what they can do.

 

[Finnyfam60]

Wow, you guys are some serious rocket scientists! I just found a local store with the proper thread, pitch, length, rating, and boom! $5/ea later had new front lower control arm bolts (needed 10mm longer for landtank caster plates and new oem rubber).

 

[CoffeeGeek]

I am sure that a person could order the correct size bolts from McMaster-Carr. They may not have the flange surface and they certainly will not have the locking nubs. possibly lock washers could be used to help keep the bolts from loosening.

I work as a turbine Technical Advisor and Field Service Engineer for the other Japanese T company. Along with televisions and computers My company manufactures nuclear reactors and steam turbines. What is even more wild about turbine shell bolting is that you heat the bolt to elongate it and turn the nut the required distance. When the bolt cools it gets shorter and reaches its prestress. Over the past decade we have started using induction heat rather than electric or gas to elongate the studs as induction is much faster. It is even possible to use ultrasonics to determine the length and resulting stress level.

 

[Golgo13]

Finnyfam, your solution works too, but you should check to make sure the bolts are tight occasionally. I was just looking at the technical side where you might actually want to figure out a torque which works to properly to hold the joint. In all reality, if you don't mind checking or retightening the bolts before every wheeling trip, your hardware store bolts will be just fine.

I apologize for not posting pictures or prices yet. I've had a couple long days, one in the garage and the other at work. I really hope our customers appreciate the extra work we put in for everything we do. When I actually get some time, I'll get things posted. Sorry for the delays!

CoffeeGeek, I was just stabbing in the dark, I didn't really expect to hear that you're a field engineer for a reactor turbine supplier. That is awesome. I have heard of hot-installing bolts, but never seen it in practice. That is awesome. Similar to a rivet, but more precise and higher tension is achievable... Like I said, I love stuff like that. Sounds like a cool job!

 

[Tools R Us]

To give you some context, here is an excerpt from Slee OME 80 series installation instructions..
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/tz_ome.htm
"...Now loosen the front four bolts that attach the arms to the axle housing. The bolts should be loosened and not the nuts. The nuts are locked with serrations on the face of the nut. If you use an air impact wrench to do this, it will help to turn the wheels to either side to gain access to the bolts. Also note the direction of the bolts as they are removed. They should be re-installed from the same side of the bracket."
Thank you Golgo for your response, though I'm still a bit uncertain, as that seems to contradict the above

This is exactly what I have always heard. For this type of fastener, always turn the end with the washer. On the frame end that is the nut, on the axle end that is the bolt.

This doesn't look like a good bearing surface to me? This is the frame side hardware.

The nut with washer does.

This is the axle end hardware, the bolt looks like the bearing surface.

This is what the bracket looks like on the nut side. Have seen several where the torqued nut was turned to remove, plows/machines a groove in the bracket. If you were to torque the side with the serrations, how would you account for the added torque needed to plow that metal out? From experience, it absolutely takes significantly less torque to turn the smooth side than the serration side.

This looks more like a bearing surface to me, axle end, bolt side.

That said, have worked on several where the wrong side has been turned, have never replaced hardware, once properly torqued, have never seen one come loose. But if you are going to do it, why not simply turn the side with the washer and not dork it up?

 

[Tools R Us]

... This is why it is advisable to only turn the nut to avoid overcoming friction of both bolt head flange and nut flange, the torque was calculated based on only turning the nut.

For automotive application, I would say, hold one torque the other, as long as only one is turning, nut or bolt, good enough. There are many captured nut examples, where one fastener has a captured nut, have to torque the bolt, another a nut, both have the same torque spec.

... I was in a time crunch and had a "4x4" shop install my lift. I have had a nut loosen on both a panhard bar and the front lower control arm, thus lost a nut and a bolt and nut. I have no idea if the hardware is installed in the correct orientation and if this contributed to the loss.
...

Most likely related to torque, a torque wrench is a wonderful thing, when properly torqued to spec, it's very rare to have loose fasteners. Over torque is worse than slight under torque, once a fastener is torqued past yield, plastic deformed, it is ruined, will continue to stretch, never hold rated load. Can't count the number of times that I have had a conversation like this: That came loose, I got the beaker bar and tightened the out of it and it came loose again, need to bore it out and get bigger grade 8 hardware! Replace the offending hardware with new properly spec, torque to spec, and never a problem again, imagine that? If you are going to work on rig, especially other peoples, get a torque wrench and use it, a Harbor Freight special is way better than "about that tight"! It's scarey the number of "pro techs" that I know that rarely/never use a torque wrench, it takes too long, I know how tight, we don't have that many problems with stuff falling off, etc.

 

[maxamillion2345]

Seriously over thinking ALL of this.

 

[CoffeeGeek]

Yeah, geeking out a little bit LOL. Little bit OCD sometimes.
I sure do not want to disagree with the guy that can torque the 80's control arm bolts past yield strength (940Mp or 136,000 psi - I do not recall the size of the bolts but the FSM specifies torque 127ftlb on the axle side and 130 ftlb frame side- I do not believe this is near prestress level) with the correct size hand tools. Certainly, I do agree with the use of torque wrenches on suspension parts. There are a lot of parts that an experienced hand with the correct size tool can determine the applied torque. Some items you just do not want to risk getting wrong and suspension is one of them. There is another discussion going on regarding a crank pulley that possibly was not tightened correctly and lead to destroying the engine due to a lack of oil pressure.

 

[concretejungle]

I agree don't OCD this thing to death.

As long as the bolts/nuts that have the fins are able to grab (which if torqued properly they should), torque them and go. For added insurance (like i do) add some blue locktite to them and you will be good to go.

 

[Booger weldz]

Its a nut and a bolt on an old truck that historically never comes loose, even when replaced with an equivalent from ace hardeare? Its not a dovetail fit on a 3600 rpm turbine fin in a reactor steamplant??

Wow!

 

[blunderbuss]

Part Numbers and a schematic for those that want new hardware.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

More important and most over looked is the torque and final tightening be done at ride height and not lifted

 

[RedFiveAZ]

FWIW, mine were loose after a recent trip to Mexico and driving sections of the Baja 1000 course. I got back home and there was a popping in my suspension when I went over minor dips/bumps. Got down there and the bolts were very loose!! Highly recommend checking the torque, using loctite, and applying a torque stripe to it. I torque striped mine when I put the castor plates on a couple of years ago...it was easy to spot the broken stripe post-Mexico.

 

[ppc]

When you said "bolts" did you previously replace the OEM studs and nuts with bolts? If not and you still have the OEM fasteners what loosened, the studs, nuts or both?

 

[RedFiveAZ]

My castor plate kit came with all new bolts/nuts/washers. In my case, the forward and aft bolts/nuts that hold the arm to the axle were loose on both the passenger and driver arm.

The castor plate also has an upper bolt that hold the plate to the axle. On the driver's side it's one bolt/nut with a sleeve in the middle, on the passenger side it's two bolt/nuts individually clamping each side of the plate to the axle. On my truck, I did not see any loosening of the upper passenger side bolt/nuts. However, my driver's side was loose.

I just took them out one at a time, cleaned up the threads, applied loctite, retorqued, and torque striped them. For what it's worth, when I took them apart I found red loctite dust in the threads. Clearly I had thought ahead and done it right....but apparently the red stuff wasn't good enough.

If you're interested in torque striping your stuff, which I like to do on critical components, you can find it online in a lot of places, Amazon, McMaster, to name a couple. I got mine from Aircraft Spruce. I have nothing to do with them or any torque stripe paint manufacturer, I'm just a knuckle dragging helo pilot and we stripe the s*** out of our aircraft. It has definitely saved my life a couple of times, including the truck!

 

[-Spike-]

When you said "bolts" did you previously replace the OEM studs and nuts with bolts? If not and you still have the OEM fasteners what loosened, the studs, nuts or both?

Pretty sure there's some confusion here. There aren't any studs on the control arms. You may be thinking of the steering arms.

 

[ppc]

Yes, I thought the reference was to the steering arms.

 

[zapatius]

I believe the preferred nomenclature for the lift discussion is "front lower control arms" and instead of "stud" it is "bolt w/ washer" (90119-16003) and "nut" (90179-16015).

Was there any caster correction done for the 2.5" lift?

 

[chap79]

Holy 4 year old thread resurrection.

 

[zapatius]

Dang, I was just looking at the date on the last few posts, not the OP.

Cold case files.