Looking at a LX570 (1 Viewer)

[doru]

Hi all,

my first post in this forum as I just started thinking about getting a LX.
For how I got here, this is the thread to read Buying advice 4Runner vs. Lexus vs Tacoma

Although I always loved Land Cruisers especially the 1997 one, I gave up on idea of owning one like the high school dreams you leave behind. On the practical side it is so big and it eats so much gas. My kids are grown up also so not relay needing all those 8 seats.

I test drove a 2010 LX570 over the weekend for the first time just because it was there (you can read my reviews for all 6 trucks in the link above). After the test drive the GX460 was the favorite followed by LX570. I did not drove the Land Cruiser so could not have an educated opinion about it.

Yesterday I come across a 2013 LX570 with 90K miles for $39K, one owner, cared for, lots of options, dark interior. Price seems fair according to trends. The idea of owning an LX started to form.
Looks tempting but there are a couple of things holding me back. Maybe you guys can help me a bit...

As I have no experience driving a Land Cruiser of same year I'm wondering if I would miss something by getting the LX instead. The LX is already $9K over my initial budget and Land Cruisers are more expensive than the LX's so Land Cruiser must have something to justify yet another budget increase.

Honestly between the GX and LX what I do not like on LX is that I can't get the chairs folding flat, and the gas mileage.

So what is your experience with real word gas consumption on the LX?

Can you remove the 3rd row seat from the car? I saw it is powered so I wonder if that is possible like in Land Cruiser.

The other nagging thing is the ground clearance at 8.9". Is that on the highest setting? I saw that I can get a 1.5-2" lift on the GX460. The LX has a complicated suspension with ride height and stiffness adjustment. How hard is to get a 1.5" lift on it?

Does that air suspension create problems? I heard some complains about the GX rear air suspension and the fix was to replace it with conventional spring suspension.

 

[tbisaacs]

AHC on the LX is hydraulic not air. Out of the box it can raise 2”+. You can also mechanically adjust the height sensors or modify height offset with tech stream for more.

Seats unbolt, no need for inline resistors to avoid airbag light like a GX.

An LX will also swallow a 35” tire pretty easily.

 

[doru]

Such a fast reply! Thank you!

Should I read it that the max height is actually 8.9+2 ? Do you know what the total max height is?

I get that tech stream is Toyota diag computer, like Vida for Volvo. If using that what max height can I get on the LX and keep things reliably working (axles, etc)? Do I need to change control arms like on GX?

Isn't a 35" tire going to mess up speedometer?

 

[TeCKis300]

Land Cruisers are more expensive than the LX's so Land Cruiser must have something to justify yet another budget increase.

It's counterintuitive but the LX buys you more, for a reduced priced, at least in the used market. Such is the dynamic of supply vs demand. When new, LXs sold at least 2 for every LC sold. In the used market, traditionalists / purists identify with the LC nameplate. Even if the LX is effectively an LC in high end trim.

It could work out to your benefit as here's some of the potential differences in features that LXs get. Will ultimately depend on model years being compared, with later LCs getting some flow down of LX features. With some features that are exclusive to the LX. Including AHC which is in my mind the standout one.

1) More sound deadening (acoustic glass, engine covers, more extensive interior insulation)
2) Powered rear hatch for open/close, also key fob operated (later LCs got this)
3) Soft open rear lower tailgate, with power latching
4) Surround camera system
5) Ventilated/Heated front row (later LCs got this)
6) Mark Levinson Reference (only other model to get the Reference system is the LS) w/surround (19 speakers vs 14, 10" sub vs 8")
7) Power side view mirrors with auto-fold (later LCs got this)
8) AHC - AVS, lift on demand, adjustable and continuous damping logic, anti-dive/roll/squat, leveling, etc.
9) AHC underbody armor
10) Shorter roof rack (LC has a longer roof rack with 3 supports per side)
11) Steering headlights (AFS)
12) Projector headlights ('16+ LCs got this)
13) Headlight washers
14) Storage in rear seat armrest
15) Power slide rear seats
16) Second row storage on front seatbacks is a panel vs net
17) 14-way adjustable driver seat vs 10-way LC (passenger 12-way vs 8-way)
18) Adjustable tilt front headrests
19) Power stowage for 3rd row seat
20) All windows down by holding remote door open button for 3+ seconds (not sure Toyota's have this?)
21) Substantial Lexus key fob
22) Fade-To-Off interior lighting (I believe LC got this in 2014?)
23) Puddle and side step lights
24) Door sill lighting
25) Interior ambient lighting
26) Additional trunk side light and open tailgate lighting
27) +2hp / +2tq (requires 91 octane, LC is 87 octane)
28) Semi-aniline leather and more luxurious interior appointments
29) Ventilated second row outboard seats
30) Four-zone climate concierge
31) LED Headlamp with AHS Sequential Turn
32) LED Cornering Lamp
33) 12.3-inch high-res split-screen display (LC 9")
34) Head-up display
35) Steering wheel paddle shifter
36) Door puddle projector lamps
37) Rear door retractable sun shades
38) 2020 gets special trims: "LX570 Sport" to "LC Heritage"
39) Dual screen rear entertainment
40) All-Speed Dynamic Radar Cruise Control (LC DRCC for 25mph and up)
41) Auto air quality air recirculation

 

[grinchy]

If you like the gx it’s a fine option. It really isn’t in the same category as the tlc / lx. In a used car your $ goes farther in a high end vehicle, it’s just how depreciation works.
There are tlc and lx loyalists, but the two models are really very similar with cosmetic and suspension differences. Pretty much everything else is the same.
AHC on the lx is very advanced, but we don’t know everything about it yet as far as fixing goes, but outright failures are rare. The cost discussion is do you want to pay for a lift etc up front, or maybe have some repair costs later.
because ahc is dynamic there are a lot of fringe benefits (low mode for entry and trailer hookup, high mode for Offroad, speed lowering on the freeway). The high mode is equal to a typical lift, but you only have to use it when you need it . This makes a big difference in day to day use.
There is somewhat limited aftermarket for lx, but options exist for all the stuff now.

 

[doru]

I like what I'm hearing Thank you!

How about real word fuel consumption? I know there is the EPA (12, 17, 14 for 2013), the actual, and the perceived consumption that depends on how often you refill (how big the tank vs mpg) and how expensive the gas is. What's you experience?

Related to the above I know LX requires premium. But that's the case for my Volvo monster to. But for Volvo it doesn't mean that if I have to I can't use regular to get by. How is on the LX?

 

[ATwoZ]

Such a fast reply! Thank you!

Should I read it that the max height is actually 8.9+2 ? Do you know what the total max height is?

I get that tech stream is Toyota diag computer, like Vida for Volvo. If using that what max height can I get on the LX and keep things reliably working (axles, etc)? Do I need to change control arms like on GX?

Isn't a 35" tire going to mess up speedometer?

Techstream is far more accessible than Vida.

I tend to think of TS more for the fine tuning of the ride height, you can achieve most of the adjustment with a 10mm and 15minutes...search sensor lift, only takes a few minutes. I was in a similar spot as you looking for a larger more capable rig than our XC60 and somewhat stumbled upon this, as @TeCKis300 laid out there's a lot more 'value' in the LX, the main thing you get with an LC is the name.

The suspension is debatable, while many of the LC purists give us grief, myself and many others actually find it to be fantastic. While off-roading, tossing it in comfort mode immediately softens the small bumps, and tossing it back in sport mode prevents too much body roll under heavy articulation.

All that said, mileage is horrid...if you're doing a regular highway driving you can likely get 18ish depending on other mods. In town stop and go and you'll be around 13ish.

After having had our rig for two years to me it's about as 'perfect' as a vehicle gets. Additionally, specifically compared to the GX the split tailgate is soooo much better than the barn door imho.

 

[ATwoZ]

I like what I'm hearing Thank you!

How about real word fuel consumption? I know there is the EPA (12, 17, 14 for 2013), the actual, and the perceived consumption that depends on how often you refill (how big the tank vs mpg) and how expensive the gas is. What's you experience?

Related to the above I know LX requires premium. But that's the case for my Volvo monster to. But for Volvo it doesn't mean that if I have to I can't use regular to get by. How is on the LX?

Eh don't step into octane debate, it's its own war lol...identical engines, LC requires regular, LX says premium, LX also claims 2 more horsepower

Edit: regarding mileage I'm also at elevation with lower octane and more ethanol so take that for what it's worth too.

 

[doru]

I'm a ski pro and this is to be my ski mobile in the winter and family camper in the summer. That means higher elevation driving to but at least I have to come down to sea level every day.

Lol, good to know about the premium debate LX vs. LC.
My question is more from engine management point of view of using regular in an emergency. In my Volvo ECU will just "detune" the engine and lose a lot of power but nothing bad will happen, no lights or codes.

 

[doru]

AHC on the lx is very advanced, but we don’t know everything about it yet as far as fixing goes, but outright failures are rare. The cost discussion is do you want to pay for a lift etc up front, or maybe have some repair costs later.

I'm looking at a 2013. Does that quote applies to the older models to?
And is it pneumatic or hydraulic? I read different posts saying one or the other. If it has changed over the years do you know what kind is it for 2013?

 

[ATwoZ]

I'm a ski pro and this is to be my ski mobile in the winter and family camper in the summer. That means higher elevation driving to but at least I have to come down to sea level every day.

Lol, good to know about the premium debate LX vs. LC.
My question is more from engine management point of view of using regular in an emergency. In my Volvo ECU will just "detune" the engine and lose a lot of power but nothing bad will happen, no lights or codes.

No real observed ECU performance changes, plenty of people running regular regularly on their LX.

If you go this route, know that the LX has a shorter roof rack than the LC, I found the impact the hard way that I couldn't get the rails far enough apart to fit my snowboard bindings in-between. This is likely less of an issue with actual skies.

It can be fixed a few different ways ... Get an aftermarket rack, or find someone else that did and reuse their LC full length one (easy swap, just be careful removing bolts, no drilling).

I'm looking at a 2013. Does that quote applies to the older models to?
And is it pneumatic or hydraulic? I read different posts saying one or the other. If it has changed over the years do you know what kind is it for 2013?

Hydraulic, there are traditional shocks in there for support too, but it's hydraulic, no air. No change in suspension over the years. You can find some posts on changing the fluid every 60k-ish miles, and some folks that have replaced the accumulator globes. To @grinchy 's point, minimal known catastrophic failures, but some people just feel more comfortable with traditional suspension. Realistically there are many 13yo 570s with hundreds of thousands of miles doing just fine.

 

[doru]

I'm keeping the skis inside or in a cargo box. The time when you could drive with the skis on the roof are long gone, when there was only snow getting on them. Nowdays there is salt and sand that will damage both the bindings and the bases. As a pro that is completely unacceptable.

I do not like that short rack and honestly I find it stupid for Lexus to provide that. Other premium manufacturers have full length rails. I never use OEM crossbars as I found them inadequate, made for looks. I'm only using Thule square cross bars that are quick to install and remove so I do not have to put up with the noise when there is nothing on the rack. Thanks for the tip on finding some LC rails. BTW are the OEM crossbars removable on the LC rack?

I have cars with active suspension that are not as problem free as you say about LX. Because of that I can understand the benefits of active suspension and also know the pain when it is not working. So far I'm willing to put up with the pain if I can get it fixed.

I'm not sure I got a straight answer to my question of how high the clearance is. Specs is saying 8.9" but is the 2" range above that or below.
Also I read that you cannot force it to stay on high or on low all the time - is that true?
It sounds like people are happy with it though.

 

[Madtiger]

I'm keeping the skis inside or in a cargo box. The time when you could drive with the skis on the roof are long gone, when there was only snow getting on them. Nowdays there is salt and sand that will damage both the bindings and the bases. As a pro that is completely unacceptable.

I do not like that short rack and honestly I find it stupid for Lexus to provide that. Other premium manufacturers have full length rails. I never use OEM crossbars as I found them inadequate, made for looks. I'm only using Thule square cross bars that are quick to install and remove so I do not have to put up with the noise when there is nothing on the rack. Thanks for the tip on finding some LC rails. BTW are the OEM crossbars removable on the LC rack?

I have cars with active suspension that are not as problem free as you say about LX. Because of that I can understand the benefits of active suspension and also know the pain when it is not working. So far I'm willing to put up with the pain if I can get it fixed.

I'm not sure I got a straight answer to my question of how high the clearance is. Specs is saying 8.9" but is the 2" range above that or below.
Also I read that you cannot force it to stay on high or on low all the time - is that true?
It sounds like people are happy with it though.

Lowest point of any LC200 (LX or LC) is the rear axle pumpkin (at 8.9”). So, raising the vehicle (in LX via AHC), you improve on approach, breakover, and departure angles…BUT the ground clearance stays the same because AHC does NOT raise the axle pumpkin...only a change in tire size will do that.

HI setting cannot be sustained at high speed (limited by ECU at some speed)…nor would you want that because at HI, your ride deteriorates (as do with all height adjustable suspension).

 

[ATwoZ]

I'm keeping the skis inside or in a cargo box. The time when you could drive with the skis on the roof are long gone, when there was only snow getting on them. Nowdays there is salt and sand that will damage both the bindings and the bases. As a pro that is completely unacceptable.

I do not like that short rack and honestly I find it stupid for Lexus to provide that. Other premium manufacturers have full length rails. I never use OEM crossbars as I found them inadequate, made for looks. I'm only using Thule square cross bars that are quick to install and remove so I do not have to put up with the noise when there is nothing on the rack. Thanks for the tip on finding some LC rails. BTW are the OEM crossbars removable on the LC rack?

I have cars with active suspension that are not as problem free as you say about LX. Because of that I can understand the benefits of active suspension and also know the pain when it is not working. So far I'm willing to put up with the pain if I can get it fixed.

I'm not sure I got a straight answer to my question of how high the clearance is. Specs is saying 8.9" but is the 2" range above that or below.
Also I read that you cannot force it to stay on high or on low all the time - is that true?
It sounds like people are happy with it though.

If you're using a cargo box you're honestly fine with factory rails and crossbars .... I've had a Yakima skybox mounted on there as well and it's fine without any modifications.

I understand you're asking about ground clearance, what is your concern there? Are you planning to take it off road frequently or a concern for deep snow? If it's the deep snow you should be fine as it is. If you're looking at a crossover with 10" and wondering why this is less etc, most of it is due to the differential, realistically there's a lot more involved for clearance than just that number.

If you're planning to offroad it, there's more to consider. The AHC lift is predominately body based, so it's going to help with approach/departure angles and for keeping your side steps clear, it isn't going to change actual ground clearance on it's own. What it does, is by doing a sensor lift and moving it to a higher offset position permanently that you can then run larger tires that do actually increase your ground clearance. If you're not really off-roading though there may not be a need.

The height adjustment can be dynamic, low is typically just for easier entry, but will 'squat' a little at highway speeds. High is for 4Low or <20mph iirc. In 4Low and crawl, the vehicle will increase height an additional 0.75" or more when needed.

So if you're off roading, here's the likely path you'd go, sensor lift that adds 1.25-1.5" to body lift replace stock 31" tires with 33s (no mods required other than some mudflap tweaks) or 35s with some minor mods to fender liner. The tire change nets you the added 1-2" of ground clearance, in addition to the overall 'lift' of the vehicle to improve approach/departure angles. My LX is on 33s and short of the most extreme trails I've been fine.

The reality is, don't fixate too much on numbers, these vehicles are immensely capable as is.

 

[doru]

If you're using a cargo box you're honestly fine with factory rails and crossbars .... I've had a Yakima skybox mounted on there as well and it's fine without any modifications.

Does the tailgate hit the box when fully open? That happens to me by other two cars with a hatch.

Great posts the last two! It makes sense the tire to limit the clearance - silly me I'm still thinking in terms of independent rear suspension design, never owned a fixed rear axle.

The 33 tire mood looks like very doable and I'll probably do it when replacing the tires. About riding the 33 tires what do you do about the speedo when you drive on highway? Do you just remember to drive x miles under the posted limit or is there a software tweak to adjust it?

 

[lx200inAR]

Does the tailgate hit the box when fully open? That happens to me by other two cars with a hatch.

Great posts the last two! It makes sense the tire to limit the clearance - silly me I'm still thinking in terms of independent rear suspension design, never owned a fixed rear axle.

The 33 tire mood looks like very doable and I'll probably do it when replacing the tires. About riding the 33 tires what do you do about the speedo when you drive on highway? Do you just remember to drive x miles under the posted limit or is there a software tweak to adjust it?

Fairly universally Toyotas read on the low side with the speedometer. A 33" tire usually just makes the speedometer accurate. YMMV since that's just a generalization. With "34s" on my truck I read 3-4 mph slow at 70mph verified by GPS. Unless you are the type of person who likes to peg it on 78mph so they don't get pulled over in a 70, the couple miles an hour isn't going to make much of a difference. Plus it will slow down your odometer, so your truck will have less miles on it if you ever go to sell it.

 

[ATwoZ]

Does the tailgate hit the box when fully open? That happens to me by other two cars with a hatch.

Great posts the last two! It makes sense the tire to limit the clearance - silly me I'm still thinking in terms of independent rear suspension design, never owned a fixed rear axle.

The 33 tire mood looks like very doable and I'll probably do it when replacing the tires. About riding the 33 tires what do you do about the speedo when you drive on highway? Do you just remember to drive x miles under the posted limit or is there a software tweak to adjust it?

I did not have any issues with my Yakima Skybox, ymmv with other boxes. With the Yakima (others too probably?) You can slide the box back and forward on the mounts independent of the crossbar position. Playing with that I did not have any clearance issues.

@lx200inAR is right on the size and speedo correction, it's such a small difference it's not worth digging into, just remember it's a % increase, so the mph difference is much smaller at lower speeds e.g. 2% more of 35mph is 0.7MPH vs 2% of 75 which is 1.5MPH

When you factor in that different tire manufacturers build slightly smaller and slightly larger for the same 'size' it's just not worth the mental concern toss on some new rubber, fire up the GPS and figure out how far off you are.

 

[doru]

It looks like more and more this is the truck I want.

One more thing about the outside mirrors: I measured my garage door and the truck might not fit through with the mirrors extended. I assumed the published specs are without the mirrors. On my wagons I can fold them via a button on dashboard. Are the 2013 LX outside mirror power folding? Is that standard? I could not find that from the lexus specs web site using VIN numbers.

 

[Tex68w]

Former multiple GX owner and late model LX owner who now owns a late model LC here lol. I can say that while the GX is a fine vehicle it is no where near the vehicle that the 200 is and always will be. I do prefer the GX's size around town and off-road but on the highway the 200 takes the cake and who doesn't like more room and more power? The LX is a great value and it has a quieter cabin and nicer leather than the LC but the LC wins in the looks department and certainly has a larger aftermarket available to it. That said, the LX is getting more attention from the industry so things are picking up.

While I prefer the looks and heritage of the LC, I do miss things about the LX and the AHC is a really nice feature. We are considering the new generation LX for the misses here in the next 12-24 months but I'll have to see/drive it first and get some real world feedback before we make that move. I'll keep the LC for myself and then the mods can begin lol. What I am trying to say is that while we only have a LC at the moment, we still adored our LX and are considering a new one in the future. In other words, you can't go wrong with a clean, low mileage LX so don't get hung up on the nameplate because beneath all of that clad plastic front end there's the same DNA and bones that inhabit the LC.

Best of luck with your decision, hopefully we see some pics of it in your driveway soon.

 

[TeCKis300]

It looks like more and more this is the truck I want.

One more thing about the outside mirrors: I measured my garage door and the truck might not fit through with the mirrors extended. I assumed the published specs are without the mirrors. On my wagons I can fold them via a button on dashboard. Are the 2013 LX outside mirror power folding? Is that standard? I could not find that from the lexus specs web site using VIN numbers.

Pretty sure all LXs have power folding mirrors from the get go in 2008. LC owners can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the LC got this in 2016+ models. IIRC, even if the LC has power mirrors, it does not auto-fold on lock like the LX does?