Ive been that guy!
YOU came and saved me.
You're MY HERO!
K
YOU came and saved me.
You're MY HERO!
K
locrwln's new ride.... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter WILLD420
- Start date
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I forgot to answer that question, in short, no. I am going to use the thirds out of 90-95 4runner/pickups with the auto and v6. Some of them came with 4.56's and 4.88's from the factory. The 4.88's are unique, but the 4.56's which should work perfectly with Drippy (non overdrive tranny) and 37's use the same housing as all of the other mini v6 thirds. I found a rearend at PNP, but I didn't have time to get it, I'm sure its gone now, but they are out there.
Ive been that guy!
YOU came and saved me.
You're MY HERO!
K
I'm just glad someone can learn from my mistakes.
Jack
Good luck on the "cheep" I have learned that I just do not have the skilz or the ability to do "cheep"
ken
Yeah, I'm having a real hard time not going overboard with this one. There is so much I could do, but I keep reminding myself, cheap as I can and still make it right.
Jack
alia176
SILVER Star
Oh don't worry bro, I'll be the NAG that'll keep you on the straight and narrow path to cheapness
Hey Jack have you thought about doing a half elipticall set up with your stock springs you would keep stock spirings and add the half set up it can be pinned while on road and unpinned offroad just a thought and it is cheap way to get Flex for the rear anyway
Dan
Dan
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
That's a scary setup when it unloads on a steep down hill.Hey Jack have you thought about doing a half elipticall set up with your stock springs you would keep stock spirings and add the half set up it can be pinned while on road and unpinned offroad just a thought and it is cheap way to get Flex for the rear anyway
Dan
a$$ over tea kettle!!!!!
Hey Jack have you thought about doing a half elipticall set up with your stock springs you would keep stock spirings and add the half set up it can be pinned while on road and unpinned offroad just a thought and it is cheap way to get Flex for the rear anyway
Dan
No, I will stick to a traditional set up. I have never seen any of the "buggy" spring or double shackle type systems work, other than on the ramp. They always unload or do something else you don't want them to. Not worth the negatives and they have little to no positives.
Among others problems.
Jack
- Thread starter
- #90
When it comes to vehicles, I have to remember what my dad always told me about racing cars. KISS. He tried every bolt on available when he was building his old mustang. He worked on a race team that had factory backing and an unlimited budget for any toy you could imagine.
They always kept coming back to just how much bang for the buck you got from using the factory designed stuff. Ladder bars, 4 Link's etc, they had more consistent results using factory leaf sprung suspension and a set of bolt on traction bars. Everything else they tried uncovered other weaknesses in the chassis. They spent a full year tubbing the car, back halving, adding a huge cage and all they managed to do was make the car so tight that it was almost uncontrollable for the first 200' down the track. Prior to all that work, the car was a handful but wasn't unmanageable.
When I started building 4x4's he told me stories of all the stuff they did back in the early 70's. Many of those statements still ring true. Sure, ellipticals, buggy springs etc. whatever you want to call them... They flex great and sure do absorb the bumps at high speed, but they come with some interesting handling issues.
Bottom line for me. KISS, if you aren't racing it. Racing for big bucks is different, you have to run top of the line, latest and greatest if you are competing against the big bucks teams. When 1/20th of a second, or an inch determines winner or loser, you can't go cheap. On the other hand, simple works for recreational use. It will even compete pretty well with the big bucks stuff if you know your rig like the back of your hand.
Jack can back me on this. How else do you explain a 5,000lb 4 door sedan that can not only catch, but out perform a car 1/2 it's weight, but driven by someone who doesn't understand vehicle dynamics and doesn't care to.
They always kept coming back to just how much bang for the buck you got from using the factory designed stuff. Ladder bars, 4 Link's etc, they had more consistent results using factory leaf sprung suspension and a set of bolt on traction bars. Everything else they tried uncovered other weaknesses in the chassis. They spent a full year tubbing the car, back halving, adding a huge cage and all they managed to do was make the car so tight that it was almost uncontrollable for the first 200' down the track. Prior to all that work, the car was a handful but wasn't unmanageable.
When I started building 4x4's he told me stories of all the stuff they did back in the early 70's. Many of those statements still ring true. Sure, ellipticals, buggy springs etc. whatever you want to call them... They flex great and sure do absorb the bumps at high speed, but they come with some interesting handling issues.
Bottom line for me. KISS, if you aren't racing it. Racing for big bucks is different, you have to run top of the line, latest and greatest if you are competing against the big bucks teams. When 1/20th of a second, or an inch determines winner or loser, you can't go cheap. On the other hand, simple works for recreational use. It will even compete pretty well with the big bucks stuff if you know your rig like the back of your hand.
Jack can back me on this. How else do you explain a 5,000lb 4 door sedan that can not only catch, but out perform a car 1/2 it's weight, but driven by someone who doesn't understand vehicle dynamics and doesn't care to.
um not totally sure we all on the same page as far as the set up goes then again maybe we are but yes it is simple and yes it does flex but the way its set up isnt like the normal half or 3/4 elliptical set up. now that being said i very much agree K.I.S.S and store bought cant be beat for the most part but heck im a redneck and ill try anything once twice if it works hehe. The DAn and John road show are going to do some experimenting with this set up and see what it does. of course we will do all testing near home so if somethin does happen we can get it back to the house very easy.
Dan
Dan
I have to agree.
um not totally sure we all on the same page as far as the set up goes then again maybe we are but yes it is simple and yes it does flex but the way its set up isnt like the normal half or 3/4 elliptical set up. now that being said i very much agree K.I.S.S and store bought cant be beat for the most part but heck im a redneck and ill try anything once twice if it works hehe. The DAn and John road show are going to do some experimenting with this set up and see what it does. of course we will do all testing near home so if somethin does happen we can get it back to the house very easy.
Dan
Dan, I like to tell a story of a big buck rig vs. a low buck rig.
We were on Fordyce and had come up to "transfer-case hill." A guy was with us with a custom fj40, it was fully linked w/coilovers, 39.5 boggers, gears, arbs, v8, auto, etc. I watched that thing drive off of a 20 degree ramp, and nearly max out a 30 degree one.
My buddy had a bolt on 6 inch lift for his cherokee with the stock limited slip in the rear axle, my old half treaded 33's and that was it.
The 40 spent 30 minutes trying to climb the hill and tried every line and every combination he could think of and it took everything he had to get up that hill. My buddy rolls up to the hill and walks right up it. The big difference, and I have seen it time and time again, too much flex on the 40.
My old Wrangler had a very balanced suspension, just a basic SOA with springs that I put together, it would do a 1000 on a 20 degree ramp. My 4runner was a bolt on lift. I never had a problem on a trail where I said "if I only had more flex."
The problem with too much flex is that the vehicle not only becomes unbalanced, but you can loose "pounds per square inch"/contact pressure on the tires. If there is no contact pressure (like the ultra flexy 40), then the tires have no traction. All the fancy tires, lockers, etc, will do you no good if the tires aren't gripping. So, many times there is such a thing as too much flex.
Now I'm not 100% sure which "eliptical" spring set up you are talking about, but if I read your post correctly, you are going to attach a single main spring to the frame, attach the shackle to that and then your regular spring to the shackle. Correct? If that is the case, not only do they want to "unload" going down hill, but they will allow your axle to try and crawl under your rig while hill climbing. That breaks parts and they won't climb the smallest ledge.
I was rockcrawling before SOA's were the thing (1994), and we thought they were too much, then SOA's were the big thing and then everyone went off the hook and started working on their suspensions and flex was king, to where people started figuring out that "balance" is more important than ultimate flex.
I have seen them all and none of the cheap flex systems work. Trust me.
Now you can go full 1/4 eliptical with links and those work great, but again you have to get the link geometry right or they don't work either, I have seen that too.
Jack
rusty_tlc
Dain Bramaged Member
I've been reading up on link suspensions.
From what I can tell the 1/4 elip linked suspension is great, as long as you have the time and know how to dial it in with the right shocks and leaf packs.
Oh yeah you have to get the link geometry just right too.
From what I can tell the 1/4 elip linked suspension is great, as long as you have the time and know how to dial it in with the right shocks and leaf packs.
Oh yeah you have to get the link geometry just right too.
IMO...
I really like the plain and SIMPLE leaf spring set up.
No muss, no fuss, just slap it on and GO!
Coils function really nice, but then you have the control arms to hang up, bend and possibly break.
Ive got the AAL's in all 4's of my rig, and it might be a little stiffer than most people would like, but theyve done great at maintaining their shape, and I feel that my BOAT flexes rather well for the behemoth that it is.
Leaf packs are TRIED AND TRUE. The biggest worrie you have with them is either breaking the main leaf, or the center pin...Or having an adequate wrap bar...
I see all this fancy stuff that LOOKS AWESOME when installed, but...I like simplicity. Doesnt get the tech props, or the OOOH'S AND AAAAH'S, but its relieable, simple and easy to fix.
K
I really like the plain and SIMPLE leaf spring set up.
No muss, no fuss, just slap it on and GO!
Coils function really nice, but then you have the control arms to hang up, bend and possibly break.
Ive got the AAL's in all 4's of my rig, and it might be a little stiffer than most people would like, but theyve done great at maintaining their shape, and I feel that my BOAT flexes rather well for the behemoth that it is.
Leaf packs are TRIED AND TRUE. The biggest worrie you have with them is either breaking the main leaf, or the center pin...Or having an adequate wrap bar...
I see all this fancy stuff that LOOKS AWESOME when installed, but...I like simplicity. Doesnt get the tech props, or the OOOH'S AND AAAAH'S, but its relieable, simple and easy to fix.
K
I'm a leaf spring guy as well, but the more I study on link'd supsensions, I think that is the ticket. Myself and Rustytlc have been checking with the pros on another dark horse site locally, and I am glad he posted a thread about links over there. It has answered alot of my questions...(thanks Rusty)
After riding in a comp buggy all day yesterday out at Prison Hill, links are the way to go(if you have the $$$$$) I asked alot of questions and was constantly trying to look behind the seats as we were crawling to see how the 3 link was working. The setup on this particular 3 link uses a Y-link as the 3rd link, and it was AWESOME!! THe way his buggy is setup is really nice! Very predictable, smooth, and those Red Label BFG Krawlers were amazing.
If anybody knows where a decent priced 2 seater buggy chassis is, let me know.HAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!
After riding in a comp buggy all day yesterday out at Prison Hill, links are the way to go(if you have the $$$$$) I asked alot of questions and was constantly trying to look behind the seats as we were crawling to see how the 3 link was working. The setup on this particular 3 link uses a Y-link as the 3rd link, and it was AWESOME!! THe way his buggy is setup is really nice! Very predictable, smooth, and those Red Label BFG Krawlers were amazing.
If anybody knows where a decent priced 2 seater buggy chassis is, let me know.HAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!
If you want some info on link suspensions here is a good link: 4 link for dummies - Northern California Bronco Club . They have a lot of info as does Pirates. Like anything they both have there advantages.
WEll yes Jack you are right on the link set up i was refering to and im still learning and in the process of learning all i can so all the input and stories help me learn and i am always appreciateive of advice from you guys cause i am still learning does and donts hehe always a learning process you stop learning then you might as well say you know it all and quit Wheeling then become an advice columnist so Tyvm all for the advice and the lessons always APPRECIATED
Dan
Dan
Any progress?
It's been 3 whole days since you got back. I was expecting a call for scrap iron by now......
You have some scrap!?!?!?!?!
Any progress?
It's been 3 whole days since you got back. I was expecting a call for scrap iron by now......
I figured I would do that this weekend.
Let me know, we have a thing on Saturday around 9am, shouldn't last more than two hours, we should be good after that.
Jack