Lexus GXOR Concept

[Qball]

My take is GX is getting cheap enough(other vehicles have gotten expensive enough) for people to go wheeling in now and days, especially the overland crowd is growing which needs a lot less capability and more gadgets......and we men like gadgets! Only advantage GX has over others is helluva more reliable compared to other brands.

 

[Tex68w]

I've been in the off-road community for a long time and never found luxury needed for off-roading. I grew up in the mountains just like most of the people that have been active in keeping the off-road community alive. Remember its the big cities full of luxury that control the votes and put people in power that shut down off-road areas. Not the off-road people whom are "slowly discovering" the "sooo refined" GX. The way I see it the GX is slowly discovering the off-road community. I hope the GX owners are ready for a challenge and not just following a luxury SUV trend.

You guys act like the GX is the best thing out there and it's changing the industry! It's only a small part of a huge industry and the GX may fade away in time because of small production levels, limited aftermarket support and costly repairs.

Here's some off-road vehicle advise. I avoid overly complicated systems I can't override or replace when they break. Prime example is the GX air suspension is unreliable and when it breaks you have no springs. The reliable fix is to swap out for 4runner/FJC parts. Before I bought my 5th Gen 4runner Trail I looked over every critical system to see if it could be used 30 years from now by overriding, replacing or removing. KDSS problems? Override or remove it. Traction control problems? Disable it and go without it. Rear locker problems? Wire in a direct switch. 4x4/low range selector switch problems? Trick question, Trail and TRD's have a mechanical lever unlike the GX. The point is the 4runner at it's roots is a basic 4x4 and all the electronics can be removed short of the engine/trans. I think the 4runner will stand the test of time if you are willing to let some systems go. Over time like any luxury vehicle the GX will suffer more costly repairs and have systems that can't easily be replaced. Thus making it less reliable then a 4runner. Another example is the GX climate control system is tied into the Nav/radio. You can't just put an aftermarket radio in when it breaks you have to repair it with OEM parts. Think about all the electronic sensors, solenoids and actuators that can go bad. In the Long term and off-road simpler is better. How many old jeeps, broncos, blazers, and toyota's do you still see on the trail? When the GX is 30+ years old do you think it will still be wheelin?

I agree with most of what you have to say, this is why I have a TRD Pro 4Runner and not a GX. I prefer the manual t-case shifter, I liked our Power Wagon for the same reason, it's simple, nothing electronic to fail you, and I know without a shadow of a doubt whether or not I am engaged. The 4Runner's 4.0 V6 might not be fastest or the most powerful and the old school 5-speed transmission might be better with an extra gear or a different ratio, but they both get the job done and are boringly reliable. Both can be found in hundreds of thousands of vehicles over the last decade or more and there will be a multitude of parts for many years to come. That said, the V8 and 6-speed in the GX also have long term staying power as they have been used for many years now and are quite common as well, albeit not as common as the 4.0 and 5-speed but still more than common enough to have staying power for the long haul.

The standard GX (the mass majority of GX's built) doesn't have the fancy air ride that's prone to failure, and like you mentioned for those Luxury models that do, it can be easily removed and a simple 5th Gen lift put in it's place. The electronics are a bit of a hindrance in terms of reliability with the GX and it is pretty outdated in both tech and design/appearance but it is no way all that complicated for the very same reason. As a former GX owner, IMHO the biggest drawbacks to the GX platform are the lack of aftermarket (which is getting better) most notably bumpers and the rear door and cargo space. Without modifications they scream suburban soccer mom and I find that a little emasculating lol.

As an engineer I've been inundated with the KISS mentality most of my life and when it comes to being off grid and in remote places with very little support it helps to keep things simple for the sake of usability and trouble shooting and repairs. Things like reliable drive trains and simple electronics and manual interface hardware like the t-case shifter are definite advantages. That said, if we are honest with ourselves here, very few people have the skillset to get themselves out of a scenario where they might have a drivetrain failure so simple or not it's all meaningless should that situation ever present itself for the majority of people. Beyond that, it is rare in this country to be more than a couple of hours from any sort of help or assistance and even in the most remote wheeling areas you are still more than likely going to come in contact with others doing the same thing, so short of a major medical event you would likely never find yourself in a life threatening scenario within our borders due to vehicle failure. Cell phones and satellite messengers are cheap and common equipment these days that keep anyone connected regardless of their location.

If we dig even deeper we will find that in our modern fast paced lives most are lucky if they can patch together two trips a year to get out and properly use our built 4WD'S. The majority are likely happy if they can get three of four two-night weekend adventures under their belt annually and from there the remainder of the year their vehicles operate as family trucksters hauling kids, dogs, groceries and small items home from the hardware store. This is where the luxury comes into play, they appreciate it when it's being used that 96% of the time as an everyday vehicle while sitting in traffic, not while on the trail in Colorado for a week. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but I am willing to wager that it applies to most. Don't get me wrong, if I lived in an area where I had easy access to proper wheeling within an hour or less I would certainly have a purpose built rig with vinyl floors and seats and very little modern comforts as it just makes for less crap to fail or get destroyed and for easier cleanup. It'd be on 37's, locked front and rear, geared appropriately and have everything I could possibly need onboard to tackle most anything I might encounter on the trail as it would be a purpose built rig with one job and goal in mind 24/7.
The GX and LC/LX are the opposite of that, they are quite capable in box stock trim and even more so when slightly modded and they will get you in and out of 98% of the places most will find themselves in over the course of a weekend and then immediately go back to being a comfortable and reliable everyday suburban commuter the very next week. Like it or not, that is what the majority of off-road enthusiasts need and want. They are weekend warriors who get out of the city in order to escape the stresses of their suburban lives so that they can get a reset before they tackle it all over again the very next week. If the majority of off-roaders were only those who lived in rural Colorado, Utah, Arizona, etc. there'd be a lot fewer aftermarket companies making products for our vehicles due to the lower demand and quite honestly I am willing to bet that there'd be a lot less money in the coffers of the off-road advocacy groups and environmental programs that help to keep some of these areas maintained and open for us to enjoy. In a perfect world we'd all be Mad Max off-roaders romping around in fully built rigs on a Rubicon trail in our backyards, but sadly that's not the case. So while I dog on the GX from time to time, the truth is that it's a great option for a lot of people and I am willing to bet that it's popularity in the off-road/overland world will continue to grow regardless of what happens to the platform going forward.

 

[r2m]

Hey Tex68w, just wanted to comment on your well thought out and detailed post above.
I too am an engineer and also believe in KISS (especially since I'm an R&D engineer and need my designs to transfer into manufacturing). But... per your comments about wiz-bang gizmos that we have now that in days past (at least in the Toyota world) were manual e.g. locking hubs, transfer case lever, etc., that is the primary reason I drive a Toyota product, for the reliability. A quick side note, even the almighty Jeep owners have to swap out their axles and pumpkins when they start going larger than 35" tires or they're breaking things, not to mention the Chrysler engine , again that's why my family and I drive Toyota products.

I hit my 60th birthday this year. My wife and I still love to surf, ski, hike, camp, cycle, etc. but yes, I like my heated seats when wheeling in the winter, cooled seats and 3 climate zones when wheeling in the summer. I like to be able to electronically swing my rear view mirrors in with a push of a button in tight places. I like the cushy seats and great sound system. Maybe I'm in the minority, but my wife and I are in a local four wheeling club and we go out and do trails about once a month (maybe a little less in summer) with most trips being over nighters. My wife has an '07 Taco crewcab 4x4 with factory e-locker and she loves taking that on the trail. But to tell the truth, after 8 hours on a trail going through rock fields, rutted trails and wash board, I'm not feeling it quite as much as when we take her truck.

Funny thing about you mentioning purpose built, trailer out the trail rigs, I'm seeing more and more "side-by-sides" I believe they're called. Have to admit they look fun, but so do the extreme trailered off road rigs. This is me (and my wife) we just don't like the idea of having to trailer a toy! Also, we live about 100 feet from the ocean, which means we have NO extra space for a trailer of ANY kind! I can barely get to my tools in our one car garage because it's so full of surfboards, paddle boards, bicycles and my granddaughters toys. So another reason we just couldn't go that route.

And my final point, is that many, including myself never have plans on "rock-crawling" our rigs with >37" tires and an exo-skeleton cage. I think the community is looking for a very capable off roader that if necessary can get them out of most predicaments. Yes I could do rock crawling with my rig, but I'm not into buckling my panels. I don't mind trail pin striping, but I don't want to abuse my rig. That is when you want something that is usually trailered in.

So in closing, I must qualify that everything above is from my own point of view and not to offend anyone.
I'm in a rush right now, so I may go back a append this when I get a chance to re-read my rant...

 

[LTSR]

I've been in the off-road community for a long time and never found luxury needed for off-roading. I grew up in the mountains just like most of the people that have been active in keeping the off-road community alive. Remember its the big cities full of luxury that control the votes and put people in power that shut down off-road areas. Not the off-road people whom are "slowly discovering" the "sooo refined" GX. The way I see it the GX is slowly discovering the off-road community. I hope the GX owners are ready for a challenge and not just following a luxury SUV trend.

You guys act like the GX is the best thing out there and it's changing the industry! It's only a small part of a huge industry and the GX may fade away in time because of small production levels, limited aftermarket support and costly repairs.

Here's some off-road vehicle advise. I avoid overly complicated systems I can't override or replace when they break. Prime example is the GX air suspension is unreliable and when it breaks you have no springs. The reliable fix is to swap out for 4runner/FJC parts. Before I bought my 5th Gen 4runner Trail I looked over every critical system to see if it could be used 30 years from now by overriding, replacing or removing. KDSS problems? Override or remove it. Traction control problems? Disable it and go without it. Rear locker problems? Wire in a direct switch. 4x4/low range selector switch problems? Trick question, Trail and TRD's have a mechanical lever unlike the GX. The point is the 4runner at it's roots is a basic 4x4 and all the electronics can be removed short of the engine/trans. I think the 4runner will stand the test of time if you are willing to let some systems go. Over time like any luxury vehicle the GX will suffer more costly repairs and have systems that can't easily be replaced. Thus making it less reliable then a 4runner. Another example is the GX climate control system is tied into the Nav/radio. You can't just put an aftermarket radio in when it breaks you have to repair it with OEM parts. Think about all the electronic sensors, solenoids and actuators that can go bad. In the Long term and off-road simpler is better. How many old jeeps, broncos, blazers, and toyota's do you still see on the trail? When the GX is 30+ years old do you think it will still be wheelin?

Let us have some fun, man. I get it, you don't want city folks stomping all over your trails. Don't forget that a lot of GX owners are previous die hard 4runner owners, myself included. I've had a number of 4runners, since 1993. You can't pile all GX owners with the new off road trend going on. You come to the 150 section and essentially bash the GX and what do you expect? we've all been pretty happy with the GXOR "concept", just let it be.

 

[Tex68w]

Hey Tex68w, just wanted to comment on your well thought out and detailed post above.
I too am an engineer and also believe in KISS (especially since I'm an R&D engineer and need my designs to transfer into manufacturing). But... per your comments about wiz-bang gizmos that we have now that in days past (at least in the Toyota world) were manual e.g. locking hubs, transfer case lever, etc., that is the primary reason I drive a Toyota product, for the reliability. A quick side note, even the almighty Jeep owners have to swap out their axles and pumpkins when they start going larger than 35" tires or they're breaking things, not to mention the Chrysler engine , again that's why my family and I drive Toyota products.

I hit my 60th birthday this year. My wife and I still love to surf, ski, hike, camp, cycle, etc. but yes, I like my heated seats when wheeling in the winter, cooled seats and 3 climate zones when wheeling in the summer. I like to be able to electronically swing my rear view mirrors in with a push of a button in tight places. I like the cushy seats and great sound system. Maybe I'm in the minority, but my wife and I are in a local four wheeling club and we go out and do trails about once a month (maybe a little less in summer) with most trips being over nighters. My wife has an '07 Taco crewcab 4x4 with factory e-locker and she loves taking that on the trail. But to tell the truth, after 8 hours on a trail going through rock fields, rutted trails and wash board, I'm not feeling it quite as much as when we take her truck.

Funny thing about you mentioning purpose built, trailer out the trail rigs, I'm seeing more and more "side-by-sides" I believe they're called. Have to admit they look fun, but so do the extreme trailered off road rigs. This is me (and my wife) we just don't like the idea of having to trailer a toy! Also, we live about 100 feet from the ocean, which means we have NO extra space for a trailer of ANY kind! I can barely get to my tools in our one car garage because it's so full of surfboards, paddle boards, bicycles and my granddaughters toys. So another reason we just couldn't go that route.

And my final point, is that many, including myself never have plans on "rock-crawling" our rigs with >37" tires and an exo-skeleton cage. I think the community is looking for a very capable off roader that if necessary can get them out of most predicaments. Yes I could do rock crawling with my rig, but I'm not into buckling my panels. I don't mind trail pin striping, but I don't want to abuse my rig. That is when you want something that is usually trailered in.

So in closing, I must qualify that everything above is from my own point of view and not to offend anyone.
I'm in a rush right now, so I may go back a append this when I get a chance to re-read my rant...

I am right there with you, we live on the coast and I have a lot time and money tied up in toys for the water and fishing as well. Unfortunately I have a lot of hobbies/interests and there's only so much time and money to go around. I really should streamline my interests even further to help cut the fat but it'd be hard to lose anything else from here as I have already cut back a lot in the last few years. Lately the dirt/enduro bike has been getting most of my attention.

We did the RZR Turbo thing a few years back and it was fun but it just wasn't for us one the end. I had over $30K tied up in mine and it still wasn't where I wanted it to be. You have to trailer them, most states don't allow them to be tagged or on the streets, they don't fit down a lot of the OHV trails since they are now 72"+ wide and quite honestly they are giving us off-roaders a bad name since the majority of trail damage and idiots on the trails these days are in a SxS. We didn't care for the jerky transmission, cheap floors and seats, constant rattles, heat coming from the motor/transmission, and the belt drive. They are lightweight, extremely capable, fast, easy to mod, no need to worry about damage and they provide the best viewing and approach angles making them a cinch to operate for almost anyone. But you are exposed to the elements and engine noise whether you like it or not and that means you are almost always dusty and dirty. They have their place and as an alternative in the garage they are fantastic but for us it was no replacement for a proper 4x4 especially at that price point. I took a day off from riding in Colorado a few weeks back and we took my buddies RZR out for the day and at the end of the day I was just as dirty, sore and tired as I was when I spent a full day on the bike lol.

We might find our way into a dedicated off-road rig in the coming years, but for now I have other irons in the fire or set to go in the fire coming soon and that will just have to wait its turn. For the time being I'd like to get the 4Runner up on 34's with a proper set of bumpers and lower gears and see where that will take us until then.

 

[Gazziza]

Honestly we're in an interesting time for Toyota/Lexus. Basically all their SUV and truck vehicles (except the Tacoma) are 10+ years or older. They've held on to these platforms forever and I think everyone on here enjoys them because they are still old school BOF rugged vehicles with high displacement engines and solid rear axles. I think the next 2-3 years will be telling with what happens with Toyota/Lexus. The mass market is what drives sales and with strict CAFE standards and everyone moving towards forced induction engines the days of V8's and a simple 4.0L V6 engine are going to be over soon. Things are going to change. I can see Toyota continuing the LC and 4Runner as their off-road icons but I'm not sure sure about the LX or GX going forward. Those are going to see more electronics, more technology, more luxury, low displacement-forced induction engines and more low hanging plastic fascia with plenty more bling. This iteration of the GX may be the best version for those who want an off-road rig with luxury as going forward I think it's going to be a lot more luxury and crossover like. That is if they even continue it. I think the GX460 will only get more and more popular with the off-road community.

I own a 2016 4Runner and the thing I like about it most is the simplicity, ruggedness, and capability. Now that I've suffered some trail damage on it I don't mind so much if I get a scratch on it. I don't mind so much when there are squeaks and rattles because I was the one who caused those with aftermarket parts and driving on rough corrugated desert trails. I don't have TSS, no blindspot monitors, no lane departure warnings, HVAC is a simple dial that doesn't require input from the infotainment. Everything is a simple switch/botton/dial and 4wd is activated by a manual transfer case lever. Aftermarket parts are a plenty. I know this may be blasphemy but I think the 5th gen 4Runner is the closest thing to a modern 80-series land cruiser. Size is similar, powertrains are both similarly sluggish although the 1FZ has more linear power band with lower end torque, and they basically have the same simple design and interior. Nothing fancy, just simple dials, buttons, and levers. I've test driven them all - 80, 100, 200, GX470 and 460 and when it comes to drive experience and interior feel the 80 series and 5th Gen 4Runner just feel very familiar, just more modern and updated in a 4R. Obviously the 4Runner lacks the solid front axle, front lockers, and ability to run 37-40" tires.

It's pretty hard to find a good condition low mileage 80 series nowadays. Even if you do it's a 20+ year old truck and that carries its own issues. I also have objections paying $10k for a 20 year old 80-series that has 200k+ miles as the value has only seemed to increase. Some of the asking prices are ridiculous just because it's an 80-series. You can however pick up a simple, rugged, somewhat modern, and brand new 4Runner for a reasonable price. Give it time, I think the 5th gen 4Runner will go down as a modern day 80 series.

 

[r2m]

4Runners are like Jeeps and VW bugs of the 70's, parts are cheap and in abundance. That should be a FUN build!!
If I had room and could get to all my tools, I'd love to build an exo-skeleton Taco with dual transfer cases, 37"s, and so for a trail rig. But I would probably still have it be DMV licensed so I could drive it to a trail if I wanted to.
Regarding the sxs, having never ridden one, I never considered all the down sides, e.g. noise, dust, elements, harsh ride, etc. etc. etc. Not to mention the environmental issues. Our club actually has trail days where we go out and fix, maintain or clean trails to help keep them open and usable for the public and avoid government closure.

 

[Qball]

Honestly we're in an interesting time for Toyota/Lexus. Basically all their SUV and truck vehicles (except the Tacoma) are 10+ years or older. They've held on to these platforms forever and I think everyone on here enjoys them because they are still old school BOF rugged vehicles with high displacement engines and solid rear axles. I think the next 2-3 years will be telling with what happens with Toyota/Lexus. The mass market is what drives sales and with strict CAFE standards and everyone moving towards forced induction engines the days of V8's and a simple 4.0L V6 engine are going to be over soon. Things are going to change. I can see Toyota continuing the LC and 4Runner as their off-road icons but I'm not sure sure about the LX or GX going forward. Those are going to see more electronics, more technology, more luxury, low displacement-forced induction engines and more low hanging plastic fascia with plenty more bling. This iteration of the GX may be the best version for those who want an off-road rig with luxury as going forward I think it's going to be a lot more luxury and crossover like. That is if they even continue it. I think the GX460 will only get more and more popular with the off-road community.

I own a 2016 4Runner and the thing I like about it most is the simplicity, ruggedness, and capability. Now that I've suffered some trail damage on it I don't mind so much if I get a scratch on it. I don't mind so much when there are squeaks and rattles because I was the one who caused those with aftermarket parts and driving on rough corrugated desert trails. I don't have TSS, no blindspot monitors, no lane departure warnings, HVAC is a simple dial that doesn't require input from the infotainment. Everything is a simple switch/botton/dial and 4wd is activated by a manual transfer case lever. Aftermarket parts are a plenty. I know this may be blasphemy but I think the 5th gen 4Runner is the closest thing to a modern 80-series land cruiser. Size is similar, powertrains are both similarly sluggish although the 1FZ has more linear power band with lower end torque, and they basically have the same simple design and interior. Nothing fancy, just simple dials, buttons, and levers. I've test driven them all - 80, 100, 200, GX470 and 460 and when it comes to drive experience and interior feel the 80 series and 5th Gen 4Runner just feel very familiar, just more modern and updated in a 4R. Obviously the 4Runner lacks the solid front axle, front lockers, and ability to run 37-40" tires.

It's pretty hard to find a good condition low mileage 80 series nowadays. Even if you do it's a 20+ year old truck and that carries its own issues. I also have objections paying $10k for a 20 year old 80-series that has 200k+ miles as the value has only seemed to increase. Some of the asking prices are ridiculous just because it's an 80-series. You can however pick up a simple, rugged, somewhat modern, and brand new 4Runner for a reasonable price. Give it time, I think the 5th gen 4Runner will go down as a modern day 80 series.

As much as I agree with you there are few key differences between an 80 and the 4Runner or Prado:

Without a solid front axle it’s not a true LC to me! Yes that includes the 200!
4runners are everywhere like you said and The 80 sold only a few thousand
True LC had 25 year service life design mandate by Mr. Toyota himself....not even modern US LC has that
True LC/80 can have most trail side repairs done with simple hand tools, another mandate by Mr. Toyota himself.

Size and on road performance is similar but honestly the similarity stops about there too. sadly we can’t have the new “modern” true LC in the US ever again!

I get the GX infotainment system sucks and is integrated but the rest really isn’t much different compared to a 4Runner. I don’t get all the fuss about comparing the 2, if you slide under both you will be hard pressed to tell the difference at a glance. And if you haven’t been under the 150 or your off-road vehicle then stick to “overlanding” aka driving on maintained forest service roads.

 

[BMRisko]

Let us have some fun, man. I get it, you don't want city folks stomping all over your trails. Don't forget that a lot of GX owners are previous die hard 4runner owners, myself included. I've had a number of 4runners, since 1993. You can't pile all GX owners with the new off road trend going on. You come to the 150 section and essentially bash the GX and what do you expect? we've all been pretty happy with the GXOR "concept", just let it be.

Exactly...not every GX owner is a city slicker trying to close trails...not sure how someone could even think that, but whatever. I'm a new GX owner, but my previous trail-only rig was a locked Grand Cherokee (with leather!!!), long arm suspension, axle swap, interior cage, etc that I built in the early 2000s and wheeled for years. Now that I am older with kids, the wheeling trips are a lot less numerous and my GX is also my urban assault daily driver, camping, beach fishing rig, dad-mobile...all rolled into one. Eventually I'll build another trail-only rig, but the time just isn't there right now and those type of trips just don;t happen much anymore, especially with a 2 yr old. I spend 90% of the time around town on pavement and that is when the refined interior makes a big difference.

I was originally sold on a TRD Pro, but came upon the GX that was actually cheaper and gave me some funds to build my GX how I wanted and had a few features that I preferred...V8, nicer interior (IMHO) and I'm in the minority, but I actually prefer the GX rear door configuration. Not to mention, built T4Rs are a dime a dozen and sometimes I like to be different. You just don't see that many built GXs on the road...

 

[Gazziza]

As much as I agree with you there are few key differences between an 80 and the 4Runner or Prado:

Without a solid front axle it’s not a true LC to me! Yes that includes the 200!
4runners are everywhere like you said and The 80 sold only a few thousand
True LC had 25 year service life design mandate by Mr. Toyota himself....not even modern US LC has that
True LC/80 can have most trail side repairs done with simple hand tools, another mandate by Mr. Toyota himself.

Size and on road performance is similar but honestly the similarity stops about there too. sadly we can’t have the new “modern” true LC in the US ever again!

I get the GX infotainment system sucks and is integrated but the rest really isn’t much different compared to a 4Runner. I don’t get all the fuss about comparing the 2, if you slide under both you will be hard pressed to tell the difference at a glance. And if you haven’t been under the 150 of your off-road vehicle then stick to “overlanding” aka driving on maintained forest service roads.

I'm no mechanic but do try to do as much maintenance on my 4R as I can. Everything I've learned is from wrenching on my 4R the last 3 years. Seriously 3 years ago all I had was a 160pc Craftsman tool set that was passed down to me from my dad, it's at least 20 years old and USA made. I've changed my suspension twice in a 1 car garage, taken the skids off too many times to count, fixed all the weldnuts I've broken by landing down on rocks, installed my sliders with a help of a friend, did my dual battery system with 12v to the back, change my oil/diffs/tc fluids. None of it was easy and I had no prior knowledge. Like with everything you learn as you go with experience and with the help of forums like this. Oh and Youtube, lots and lots of Youtube. I'm not a rock crawler by any means and I'm more cautious since it is still my DD but I try to have a fun and a tiny bit of anxiety on the trail. I've been on Top of the World, Black Bear Pass in pouring rain and finish the trail at midnight since I had to wait out the rainstorm, Imogene, Alpine Loop, a bunch of local Utah trails to name a few. I've done enough work and maintenance on the truck so that I could take those trails in something a stock vehicle might otherwise have more difficulty with. Or do you consider that just "overlanding" maintained forest service roads?

I'm not saying a 5th gen 4Runner is a 1:1 comparison to an 80 series. They're obviously two very different vehicles built to different standards and built in very different eras. What I'm saying is that of all the modern vehicles since the 80 series was EOL, the 5th gen 4R is most like the 80 series. Again, when it comes to features, simplicity, interior feel, drive feel, utility and size, the 80 and 5th gen 4R feels most like each other. Whereas if you step into a GX470/460, LC100 and LC200 you can feel the opulence. You can feel the luxury, the technology, and you can immediately feel how the LC changed direction from a utilitarian vehicle to a more luxury minded SUV. I can sit in my 5th gen 4R and then immediately sit in an 80 series and know how everything works, there's a familiarity. I go sit in a GX or 100/200 and now I'm wondering what this button or that button does.

Again I'm not bashing any platform. I like mine and others like theirs. If I'm buying today I'm probably getting a used GX460 or LC200. But for right now I'm just enjoying the heck out of my 4R that I don't see a reason to dump a build and switch just for a V8. I'm just saying the 5th gen and 80-series have more in common with each other than the other vehicles I had mentioned. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tex68w]

I had a 80 series, a poverty pack in fact and I loved it, but it was not without its faults. While it is the last true hard core LC we saw here in the states, most are so old and worn out that they really aren't valid in a modern argument. If we are going to argue in that manner then we might as well bring up every BOF SUV from the 60's and 70's for the sake of comparison as well, but they simply aren't the same nor should they be compared.

While the 80 Series and older rigs had their strengths and attributes, they pale in comparison to late models in terms of comfort and power and even reliability to some degree. IMHO, the best LC ever built is the 105 Series, but sadly we never got them here and by the time they start to show up on our shores more regularly they too will be 25+ years old, mostly worn out, and four times more expensive than they should be which makes me them less than ideal. The days of a straight axle Toyota are long gone (for the states anyway) and as much as it pains me to say this (as a former multiple Jeep owner), the best you can do for a similar rig these days new off the lot is a Jeep Wrangler/Gladiator. I am looking forward to the soon to be released Ford Bronco and the SVT version which is set to compete head on with the Rubicon, but even it will be IFS up front and have a small forced induction 4 cylinder motor. We can't keep living in the past and denying the reality of modern day tech and it's strengths, after all that's what the majority of enthusiasts own and drive off-road.

 

[Tex68w]

I'm no mechanic but do try to do as much maintenance on my 4R as I can. Everything I've learned is from wrenching on my 4R the last 3 years. Seriously 3 years ago all I had was a 160pc Craftsman tool set that was passed down to me from my dad, it's at least 20 years old and USA made. I've changed my suspension twice in a 1 car garage, taken the skids off too many times to count, fixed all the weldnuts I've broken by landing down on rocks, installed my sliders with a help of a friend, did my dual battery system with 12v to the back, change my oil/diffs/tc fluids. None of it was easy and I had no prior knowledge. Like with everything you learn as you go with experience and with the help of forums like this. Oh and Youtube, lots and lots of Youtube. I'm not a rock crawler by any means and I'm more cautious since it is still my DD but I try to have a fun and a tiny bit of anxiety on the trail. I've been on Top of the World, Black Bear Pass in pouring rain and finish the trail at midnight since I had to wait out the rainstorm, Imogene, Alpine Loop, a bunch of local Utah trails to name a few. I've done enough work and maintenance on the truck so that I could take those trails in something a stock vehicle might otherwise have more difficulty with. Or do you consider that just "overlanding" maintained forest service roads?

I'm not saying a 5th gen 4Runner is a 1:1 comparison to an 80 series. They're obviously two very different vehicles built to different standards and built in very different eras. What I'm saying is that of all the modern vehicles since the 80 series was EOL, the 5th gen 4R is most like the 80 series. Again, when it comes to features, simplicity, interior feel, drive feel, utility and size, the 80 and 5th gen 4R feels most like each other. Whereas if you step into a GX470/460, LC100 and LC200 you can feel the opulence. You can feel the luxury, the technology, and you can immediately feel how the LC changed direction from a utilitarian vehicle to a more luxury minded SUV. I can sit in my 5th gen 4R and then immediately sit in an 80 series and know how everything works, there's a familiarity. I go sit in a GX or 100/200 and now I'm wondering what this button or that button does.

Again I'm not bashing any platform. I like mine and others like theirs. If I'm buying today I'm probably getting a used GX460 or LC200. But for right now I'm just enjoying the heck out of my 4R that I don't see a reason to dump a build and switch just for a V8. I'm just saying the 5th gen and 80-series have more in common with each other than the other vehicles I had mentioned. Just my 2 cents.

I agree, the 80 Series was the last LC built that wasn't focused on providing luxury first. I "like" my 4Runner (it's our third 5th Gen) but I don't "love" it. It'll get the job done and the aftermarket is on fire, but there are tons of them out there (mostly due to its price and capability) so you become one of many when driving one and it lacks any personality or soul. If I had to do it all over again I probably would have built out a 2016+ 200 Series LC instead but the misses already drives a 2019 LX570 so there would be some silly redundancy there, her's isn't built though, some 33's and that's it. That said, there are multiple people on this forum that have more than one 200 in the garage haha so I keep the thought in the back of my head.

 

[tincan45]

I agree with most of what you have to say, this is why I have a TRD Pro 4Runner and not a GX. I prefer the manual t-case shifter, I liked our Power Wagon for the same reason, it's simple, nothing electronic to fail you, and I know without a shadow of a doubt whether or not I am engaged. The 4Runner's 4.0 V6 might not be fastest or the most powerful and the old school 5-speed transmission might be better with an extra gear or a different ratio, but they both get the job done and are boringly reliable. Both can be found in hundreds of thousands of vehicles over the last decade or more and there will be a multitude of parts for many years to come. That said, the V8 and 6-speed in the GX also have long term staying power as they have been used for many years now and are quite common as well, albeit not as common as the 4.0 and 5-speed but still more than common enough to have staying power for the long haul.

The standard GX (the mass majority of GX's built) doesn't have the fancy air ride that's prone to failure, and like you mentioned for those Luxury models that do, it can be easily removed and a simple 5th Gen lift put in it's place. The electronics are a bit of a hindrance in terms of reliability with the GX and it is pretty outdated in both tech and design/appearance but it is no way all that complicated for the very same reason. As a former GX owner, IMHO the biggest drawbacks to the GX platform are the lack of aftermarket (which is getting better) most notably bumpers and the rear door and cargo space. Without modifications they scream suburban soccer mom and I find that a little emasculating lol.

As an engineer I've been inundated with the KISS mentality most of my life and when it comes to being off grid and in remote places with very little support it helps to keep things simple for the sake of usability and trouble shooting and repairs. Things like reliable drive trains and simple electronics and manual interface hardware like the t-case shifter are definite advantages. That said, if we are honest with ourselves here, very few people have the skillset to get themselves out of a scenario where they might have a drivetrain failure so simple or not it's all meaningless should that situation ever present itself for the majority of people. Beyond that, it is rare in this country to be more than a couple of hours from any sort of help or assistance and even in the most remote wheeling areas you are still more than likely going to come in contact with others doing the same thing, so short of a major medical event you would likely never find yourself in a life threatening scenario within our borders due to vehicle failure. Cell phones and satellite messengers are cheap and common equipment these days that keep anyone connected regardless of their location.

If we dig even deeper we will find that in our modern fast paced lives most are lucky if they can patch together two trips a year to get out and properly use our built 4WD'S. The majority are likely happy if they can get three of four two-night weekend adventures under their belt annually and from there the remainder of the year their vehicles operate as family trucksters hauling kids, dogs, groceries and small items home from the hardware store. This is where the luxury comes into play, they appreciate it when it's being used that 96% of the time as an everyday vehicle while sitting in traffic, not while on the trail in Colorado for a week. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, but I am willing to wager that it applies to most. Don't get me wrong, if I lived in an area where I had easy access to proper wheeling within an hour or less I would certainly have a purpose built rig with vinyl floors and seats and very little modern comforts as it just makes for less crap to fail or get destroyed and for easier cleanup. It'd be on 37's, locked front and rear, geared appropriately and have everything I could possibly need onboard to tackle most anything I might encounter on the trail as it would be a purpose built rig with one job and goal in mind 24/7.
The GX and LC/LX are the opposite of that, they are quite capable in box stock trim and even more so when slightly modded and they will get you in and out of 98% of the places most will find themselves in over the course of a weekend and then immediately go back to being a comfortable and reliable everyday suburban commuter the very next week. Like it or not, that is what the majority of off-road enthusiasts need and want. They are weekend warriors who get out of the city in order to escape the stresses of their suburban lives so that they can get a reset before they tackle it all over again the very next week. If the majority of off-roaders were only those who lived in rural Colorado, Utah, Arizona, etc. there'd be a lot fewer aftermarket companies making products for our vehicles due to the lower demand and quite honestly I am willing to bet that there'd be a lot less money in the coffers of the off-road advocacy groups and environmental programs that help to keep some of these areas maintained and open for us to enjoy. In a perfect world we'd all be Mad Max off-roaders romping around in fully built rigs on a Rubicon trail in our backyards, but sadly that's not the case. So while I dog on the GX from time to time, the truth is that it's a great option for a lot of people and I am willing to bet that it's popularity in the off-road/overland world will continue to grow regardless of what happens to the platform going forward.

I couldn't agree more! I grew up in southern Utah and as a teen would spend days on the trails in our cobbled-together rigs. Even with very little funds and questionable equipment we managed to get into some of the most remote parts of our nation and never felt like we were beyond reach (even w/o cell phones). We are not Western Australia. In the lower 48, the place furthest from a road - and therefore the remotest spot on the US mainland - is in the Yellowstone National Park in Wyoming. It is 21.7 miles from a road.

As I get older/fatter and as family grows, you couldn't pay me to ride more than a day in a '72 K5 blazer! Even if I could take the entire truck apart with a handful of tools. Personally, I like having a daily driver that gets me everywhere I need to go comfortably.

Kudos to Lexus on this one.

 

[happy4runner]

Let us have some fun, man. I get it, you don't want city folks stomping all over your trails. Don't forget that a lot of GX owners are previous die hard 4runner owners, myself included. I've had a number of 4runners, since 1993. You can't pile all GX owners with the new off road trend going on. You come to the 150 section and essentially bash the GX and what do you expect? we've all been pretty happy with the GXOR "concept", just let it be.

It might seem like I don't want people stomping on the local trails. But I don't find that to be a problem. I have my spots that are less known if I want a quiet getaway. I also don't limit myself to local trails. Just did a trip covering mostly national forest and BLM land in 9 states and some days I only saw one other vehicle. There is a lot of land out there to explore and plenty of room for others to join in. My point about the city is more about luxury form the city is coming to the off-road community not the off-road community is slowly discovering luxury. And also how the city influences the voting that affects the off-road community. So if it brings more votes and awareness then please hit the trails, enjoy the mountains, and support something that can actually keep them open to the public.

I'm only bashing the GX people that act like it's better value then the tried and true off-road vehicles, and act like luxury is the evolution of the 4x4 world. The truth is it's not as repairable or sustainable as the more simple platforms and the value will be lost over time, unless all you care about is luxury. I wish toyota would bring back to the US a solid front axle and real lockers on a platform. Unfortunately manufactures have a hard time when it comes to building a tough off-road vehicles for the US market. It can be done (ie. Rubicon, Powerwagon, and Raptor) they just don't like to do it.

I think GXOR concept is good soft-roader but it's moving in the wrong direction for an off-road vehicle because it lacks lockers and is only a bunch of bolt on accessories. Also the concept vehicle wasn't built in house by Toyota or Lexus. That tells me they didn't spend any time researching and developing the concept so there not really invested in it. The GXOR could have earned the "OR" just by dropping in the elocker axle out of the 4runner/FJC, and some TRD Pro shocks, along with some off-road tires, but Lexus didn't go that far. I'm afraid it's going to be more for marketing and not actually come to production. To top it off who is going to buy one these new when the value for the off-road community is buying used and modding it? I'm rooting for Toyota/Lexus to put out more serious off-road vehicles so I do support the effort!

 

[Qball]

Overall most electronics could fail in the 460 and it will still be very useable. Almost all have a failsafe state from what I have seen in the FSM. That electro-hydraulic master cylinder in most of these rigs 4R and GX could impair you. This is one of the keys to having crawl control in a 4R or GX. The vacuum assist models can't support it.

Torsen center diff/TC (36100-6D400) is the same unit in the 4th gen V8 4R, 5th Gen 4R Limited, GX 470 and GX 460. At least on the GXs (I don't follow 4R much) the electrical engagement motor is solid aside from a few with minor fluid leaks at high mileage. It doesn't keep me up at night.

EDIT: Just my opinion but once EFI came on the stage a whole new level of what can't be fixed in the field occurred. I've tweaked carbs in situations you simply couldn't accomplish with an EFI system....and I hate carbs. I like EFI and what is has to offer and don't want to go back. Tech doesn't faze me.... seems more complex than it is but have worked in the field for 30+ years as well.

Totally agree, outside of the Navi/“infotainment system” there is almost no difference between the GX and the 4Runner. Yes, nicer interior and paint, mechanical transfer case but that’s about it

4Runner had a V8 back in Gen4 and commands a premium, I don’t see people bagging on how complicated and unreliable it is. All the essential electronic system are identical!!!

My 80’s TC lock is electronic but doing just fine after 23 years so I don’t see the big fuss, I mean this is why we buy Toyota right? Isn’t 4Runner’s diff lock electronic? OMG you gonna get stuck! LOL

 

[ducktapeguy]

As I get older/fatter and as family grows, you couldn't pay me to ride more than a day in a '72 K5 blazer! Even if I could take the entire truck apart with a handful of tools. Personally, I like having a daily driver that gets me everywhere I need to go comfortably.

Kudos to Lexus on this one.

I'm starting to feel the same way. Coming from a 1975 FJ40 and a couple of older jeeps, the comfort of modern vehicles is hard to beat on trips. As you said, even if i could rebuild the entire thing with a screwdriver and pliers, I'd rather sit in air conditioned comfort and listen to a radio for the entire trip instead of beating up my body.

It's funny to listen to people try and compare the "simplicity" of a modern day 4runner to the GX. It's like bragging that the Iphone 8 is more rugged than the Iphone X because it still has an analog button instead of a touchscreen one. Either one is still so advanced that the days of roadside repairs with duct tape and a bailing wire are long gone. The GX might have more gizmos and gadgets, but at it's core it's essentially the same as a 4 runner or any other modern vehicle. Anything that can be fixed trailside on the 4runner could also be fixed on the GX, everything else is probably going to require a trip to a mechanic anyways.

 

[happy4runner]

It's funny to listen to people try and compare the "simplicity" of a modern day 4runner to the GX. It's like bragging that the Iphone 8 is more rugged than the Iphone X because it still has an analog button instead of a touchscreen one. Either one is still so advanced that the days of roadside repairs with duct tape and a bailing wire are long gone. The GX might have more gizmos and gadgets, but at it's core it's essentially the same as a 4 runner or any other modern vehicle. Anything that can be fixed trailside on the 4runner could also be fixed on the GX, everything else is probably going to require a trip to a mechanic anyways.

Simply not so when compairing with the trail/trd 4runners. There are differences that affect reliability negating the need to go to the mechanic. I do a lot of solo off-roading so the differences matter to me.

In the lexus if you break the traction control system for an unknown reason on the trail you have nothing to fall back on. On the 4runner if there were to be a failure the rear locker can be unplugged and power can be directly applied to lock the rear axle trailside for the time being. This will help you get out of a potentially bad situation without pressing the SOS button. I know there are aftermarket lockers for the GX but I'm just referring to out of the box differances.

I do agree they are essentially the same at the core. However there is more to go wrong on the GX when the gadgets and gizmos start to get old and fail or get damaged. The question is how long to plan on keeping an off-road vehicle? I prefer to keep mine indefinitely and reassess when needed. I've had luxury vehicles, 2 of them Acura's, a TL and a MDX, which both compare in reliability to Lexus. When they aged, they needed more repairs, which were more complicated and costly to fix then the Honda counterparts. This is inherent of all luxury vehicles. Climate control, integrated radio/media, rain sensing wipers, auto adjusting headlights are just some of the things I will never need to fix on the 4runner. That is why I refer to the 4runner more simple then the GX. The 4runner will never have some of the problems over time that the GX will, so there won't even be a need to do a trailside repair!

 

[Qball]

Simply not so when compairing with the trail/trd 4runners. There are differences that affect reliability negating the need to go to the mechanic. I do a lot of solo off-roading so the differences matter to me.

In the lexus if you break the traction control system for an unknown reason on the trail you have nothing to fall back on. On the 4runner if there were to be a failure the rear locker can be unplugged and power can be directly applied to lock the rear axle trailside for the time being. This will help you get out of a potentially bad situation without pressing the SOS button. I know there are aftermarket lockers for the GX but I'm just referring to out of the box differances.

I do agree they are essentially the same at the core. However there is more to go wrong on the GX when the gadgets and gizmos start to get old and fail or get damaged. The question is how long to plan on keeping an off-road vehicle? I prefer to keep mine indefinitely and reassess when needed. I've had luxury vehicles, 2 of them Acura's, a TL and a MDX, which both compare in reliability to Lexus. When they aged, they needed more repairs, which were more complicated and costly to fix then the Honda counterparts. This is inherent of all luxury vehicles. Climate control, integrated radio/media, rain sensing wipers, auto adjusting headlights are just some of the things I will never need to fix on the 4runner. That is why I refer to the 4runner more simple then the GX. The 4runner will never have some of the problems over time that the GX will, so there won't even be a need to do a trailside repair!

Think we beat this one to death!

Agree or not GX is a heavier 4Runner/Prado. If you worried about reliability why have electronic motor actuated locker? Drop a 300 dollar auto locker in and it will never fail! Who wheels these things plain stock anyways? If I really want to wheel mine I will install an Eaton locker regardless, personally I will never buy a TRD trail or Pro because I will eventually replace every over priced, half a$$ upgrades anyways so might as well get her done right and save some money.

Eaton lockers, even on the LC the electric lockers have tons of problems
Total chaos long arm suspension, Pro only has a mini lift with 5 inches of wheel travel, why bother!
King’s 2.5 resi with bypass, stock Pro shocks are Basically 120 dollar fox.

With all the extra money spent on the TRD Pro I could of gotten top shelf stuff with night and day better performance! Plus a lot of dealers charge extra on top Of Pro MSRP, over 10k I heard.

I’m sorry but the Pros are for people don’t really off-road and get ripped off!

 

[Jstawgn]

With such a connected world, people still afraid of technology? In the old days you need to be self sufficient because when you standed you are SOL. Nowdays UPS / DHL / Fedex deliver almost everywhere and technical assistance can be provided remotely. This old argument does not hold water anymore.

 

[LTSR]

Think we beat this one to death!

Agree or not GX is a heavier 4Runner/Prado. If you worried about reliability why have electronic motor actuated locker? Drop a 300 dollar auto locker in and it will never fail! Who wheels these things plain stock anyways? If I really want to wheel mine I will install an Eaton locker regardless, personally I will never buy a TRD trail or Pro because I will eventually replace every over priced, half a$$ upgrades anyways so might as well get her done right and save some money.

Eaton lockers, even on the LC the electric lockers have tons of problems
Total chaos long arm suspension, Pro only has a mini lift with 5 inches of wheel travel, why bother!
King’s 2.5 resi with bypass, stock Pro shocks are Basically 120 dollar fox.

With all the extra money spent on the TRD Pro I could of gotten top shelf stuff with night and day better performance! Plus a lot of dealers charge extra on top Of Pro MSRP, over 10k I heard.

I’m sorry but the Pros are for people don’t really off-road and get ripped off!

That guy must *only* use paper maps because anything else is unreliable and could leave you stranded at any given moment.