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For those that havent seen yet Tread Lightly did an update to their online 101 course as well. I am not sure if its been brought up before but could we offer a discount to events for people who present their Tread Lightly 101 certificate or make it a requirement for club trail rides?

Tread Lightly – Online Awareness Course
 
I'm hoping this is the right thread for this question if not, feel free to ignore it. It doesn't really speak directly to training but I'm wondering with winch fairleads, is there a solid reason to go with roller fairleads versus the fixed hawse style? Price differential is about 300% the used 8274 I just bought came with the hawse style and it's got grooves in it like crazy from MANY years of use. The winch line seems to be in decent shape though. So I'm assuming the main reason to buy a roller fairlead is to avoid the grooves/friction? Assuming that's true - should I assume that the line is needing replacement at some point? Any way to assess the line for strength besides a visual inspection?
 
jamesurq said:
I'm hoping this is the right thread for this question if not, feel free to ignore it. It doesn't really speak directly to training but I'm wondering with winch fairleads, is there a solid reason to go with roller fairleads versus the fixed hawse style? Price differential is about 300% the used 8274 I just bought came with the hawse style and it's got grooves in it like crazy from MANY years of use. The winch line seems to be in decent shape though. So I'm assuming the main reason to buy a roller fairlead is to avoid the grooves/friction? Assuming that's true - should I assume that the line is needing replacement at some point? Any way to assess the line for strength besides a visual inspection?
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Steel cable or synthetic?
 
Pretty sure he has steel.

They make Hawse style that is rated for both synthetic and steel but I would imagine over time grooves may appear.

Other than that they sit more flush and are less likely to stick out and get hung up on rocks.
 
jdayment said:
For those that havent seen yet Tread Lightly did an update to their online 101 course as well. I am not sure if its been brought up before but could we offer a discount to events for people who present their Tread Lightly 101 certificate or make it a requirement for club trail rides?

Tread Lightly – Online Awareness Course
Click to expand...

I am a big fan of training but.... Making it requirement can cause issues, the "don't thread on me flags" come out, people start swaying and singing Freebird and holding their lighters up.... But also know that not everyone will be either able or capable of doing the training (complicated lives, commitments, etc). We do have a requirement for a fire extinguisher, which is awesome, and one for a CB (bleh). But by all means Josh, bring it to the board and they can decide those things.
Maybe do the training and get one of those ONSC velcro patches I heard about?
 
jamesurq said:
steel
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What the big man said, make sure its rated. Rollers will roll better :rofl: and create less friction, but that is more important for synthetic than steel as steel will dissipate the heat. Lots of grooves could mean it was used a lot and not in straight line pulls.
 
jamesurq said:
I'm hoping this is the right thread for this question if not, feel free to ignore it. It doesn't really speak directly to training but I'm wondering with winch fairleads, is there a solid reason to go with roller fairleads versus the fixed hawse style? Price differential is about 300% the used 8274 I just bought came with the hawse style and it's got grooves in it like crazy from MANY years of use. The winch line seems to be in decent shape though. So I'm assuming the main reason to buy a roller fairlead is to avoid the grooves/friction? Assuming that's true - should I assume that the line is needing replacement at some point? Any way to assess the line for strength besides a visual inspection?
Click to expand...
The 8274 begs for synthetic cable (rope). The 8274 brake is not in the drum so there is no concern with the drum getting too hot and compromising the integrity of the rope. In planetary winches this is not the case and they can overheat the rope and cause problems. If you want to go cheap, re-use the steel cable only if there are no kinks or frays and just get a new steel hawse fairlead. A steel hawse will work for either steel or synthetic but an aluminum hawse is only for synthetic.
 
izzyandsue said:
I am a big fan of training but.... Making it requirement can cause issues, the "don't thread on me flags" come out, people start swaying and singing Freebird and holding their lighters up.... But also know that not everyone will be either able or capable of doing the training (complicated lives, commitments, etc). We do have a requirement for a fire extinguisher, which is awesome, and one for a CB (bleh). But by all means Josh, bring it to the board and they can decide those things.
Maybe do the training and get one of those ONSC velcro patches I heard about?
Click to expand...

I figured requiring would be a stretch but an incentive would be good I think.
 
Ok -so it's another can of worms, synthetic ropes have a ridiculous price range as well....
 
jamesurq said:
Ok -so it's another can of worms, synthetic ropes have a ridiculous price range as well....
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Yes, they do...but they're worth every penny if you can swing it. Not having to worry about steel cable jabbing you and cutting your hands is nice. Not having to worry about steel cable snapping and killing you or your friends is nice. The weight reduction is nice. If you're on a budget, just spool out your steel cable and check it for kinks and frayed pieces. If it looks okay, it probably is. Slap a new steel hawse on there and forget about it. You can always go synthetic later. I went cheap on the 8274 on the Crockpot (steel cable, steel hawse) and I'm okay with that. I had synthetic on the Superwinch on my Rubicon (sold) and I loved it. Some day i will do synthetic on my 8274.

Just so you are aware, regular roller fairleads are not supposed to be used with synthetic so, if you make sure and get a steel hawse that is capable of handling either one, it will make changing over to synthetic a lot easier down the road.
 
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Haweses are cheaper, but don't cheap out on you hawse.
There are some cheap options out there that are basically nothing more than a plate with a groove.
The edges of the opening/groove should have a generous radius (at least 1.5x line radius i believe)
It is true that rollers are not recommended for synthetic line due to the chance that the line could be drawn into the gap between the vertical and horizontal rollers and sliced. Though synthetic is strong as hell under tensile loading, it can be cut easily.
That said, I had a conversation with Jonathan Hanson about this, and he was of the opinion that rollers are BETTER for synthetic. Rollers have less friction and therefor less heat, which synth likes. And he says he has done experiments trying to jam the role between the rollers and has been unable to induce the condition.

Whether you go hawse or roller, if you go synthetic, make sure your drum has been smoothed and is free of burs.
 
RedHeadedStepChild said:
Haweses are cheaper, but don't cheap out on you hawse.
There are some cheap options out there that are basically nothing more than a plate with a groove.
The edges of the opening/groove should have a generous radius (at least 1.5x line radius i believe)
It is true that rollers are not recommended for synthetic line due to the chance that the line could be drawn into the gap between the vertical and horizontal rollers and sliced. Though synthetic is strong as hell under tensile loading, it can be cut easily.
That said, I had a conversation with Jonathan Hanson about this, and he was of the opinion that rollers are BETTER for synthetic. Rollers have less friction and therefor less heat, which synth likes. And he says he has done experiments trying to jam the role between the rollers and has been unable to induce the condition.

Whether you go hawse or roller, if you go synthetic, make sure your drum has been smoothed and is free of burs.
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That's right, rolllers, poly or steel, is preferred due to heat generation in synthetic with hawse. Bill Burke has rollers on his rover with synthetic line, probably uses it daily. But....if you misuse the winch and do unsafe side pulls and other crazy sheet, your line can get damaged. Solid hawse fairlead will generate a lot of friction and heat, but most of us don't use it enough to likely damage the rope. And hawse is a funny sounding word we can use in the South, like "what's up hawse?"
 
I can tell you that in my experience on a hard pull, synthetic rope will leave a trace of residue on the hawse fairlead at the friction point. It usually scrapes right off with my fingernail. I'm sure it's "melted" rope. I can see how a roller would be beneficial but I'm not sure I would be comfortable using a standard roller fairlead with synthetic. I would try to find one that is meant for synthetic. Having said all this, James appears to be struggling to justify the expense of synthetic in the first place. No real reason to buy some fancy synthetic roller setup. A proper hawse works fine for either steel or synthetic for normal (occasional) use. My winches seem get used more for pulling out shrubbery than for pulling out trucks anyway:hillbilly:.
 
Do we need to reimagine the fairlead? Start from scratch some up with a new product? Sounds like a little roller and hawse combo. Or some kind of space age coating for the hawse so the line does not create so much heat. You could dip the fairlead before installation.
 
Need to coat the rope and hawse with a new non-chlororic silicone based kitchen lubricant.
 
We have a 12K winch with rope and a Hawse on the front of Heather's truck. That winch was previously on a tray and used on our FJ Cruiser for a couple seasons. This set up in combination with a good supply of recovery gear should get us out of any situation we find ourselves in given the manner of wheeling we prefer of late.

That said, if you are going to be wheeling the hard stuff and going with rope I would look toward an appropriate roller fair lead. I've made some interesting recoveries in the past with cable and roller fair lead that I would not be comfortable doing with rope and a Hawse. There are situations where getting a straight pull just is not in the cards and I'd rather have less friction with a roller.

I am in no way an expert in recovery, this is just my personal OPINION. Go out, check out rigs with different set ups, form an opinion of your own :)
 
Our own Linda and Jim taking the 4WD class today, outstanding! We also have a 200 series, new 4Runner, an LR3, and assorted Jeeps

IMG_2626.webp
 
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