Length of water pump AND clutch? (1 Viewer)

[76technician]

Hey all, I've found plenty of results for the different heights of water pumps for the 2F. What I'm interested in is the overall height from the base to the end of the fan clutch - I think a decade ago I ordered or received the wrong (too long) pump and clutch, which lead to the clearance issues that I didn't successfully resolve. I have a Califronia spec 8/76 which is an odd one it seems - I have an oil cooler, but did not originally have the fan clutch - I had the six-blade fan, instead.

What's come up in my searches is that the correct fan clutch and pump should fit with no issues (i.e. in the same amount of space as a non-clutch setup) since Toyota didn't increase that space throughout the years. Does this sound correct to everyone? I'm heading past the shop today to measure the old and new against each other for real numbers. From what I can tell (shown below) the unit I got seems to have a longer spacer between the clutch and pully flange than others that I see.

Thanks!

76t

 

[76technician]

Numbers now: measured from the block surface it's 8.25" to the end of the clutch, and 7.56" to the surface where the fan bolts on. Anyone have comparison measurements?

 

[spotcruiser]

SOR has a page(s) showing the various models and lengths.
http://www.sor.com/cat054.sor

You need this version or the CA equivalent (with oil cooler) to get additional space to the rad.
#054-24D Water Pump
Fits 8/76-1/79 FJ40

 

[76technician]

Thanks, spotcruiser. I've seen that, and I'm pretty sure that's the pump that I have - but if you look at the pic I posted, does the turned pillar just behind the clutch look right? I'm not sure I've seen that much of one showing, which makes me think my clutch (+ pillar) is too long. I do know the clutch is an aftermarket unit by the pics that I've seen.

 

[spotcruiser]

Yeah, that clutch and it's shaft seem pretty long. I'll see if I can take a pic of the stock clutch.

Thanks, spotcruiser. I've seen that, and I'm pretty sure that's the pump that I have - but if you look at the pic I posted, does the turned pillar just behind the clutch look right? I'm not sure I've seen that much of one showing, which makes me think my clutch (+ pillar) is too long. I do know the clutch is an aftermarket unit by the pics that I've seen.

 

[spotcruiser]

These are photos of my stock 78. It's difficult to measure, but I'd say it's right around 3" from the front of the fan to the front of pulley (mounting surface).

 

[76technician]

Thanks, that's good info! I'll reconstruct mine at the shop today. I suspect the most cost effective remedy will be going to the appropriate pump for the static fan, since I still have the fan. Otherwise I'm looking at at least a different clutch, fan to replace the one that was munched, and maybe a new pump ii case mine is also incorrect. Wish I'd been on 'Mud ten years ago to get better advice.

 

[76technician]

Ok, here's what I know: my old pump and static fan were 7.25" to the outside edge of the fan. New pump, clutch, and fan are 8.125" to the same point. Old pump from base to flange (no pulley) is 6.188". New pump is 4.75" base to flange. Fan clutch by itself is 2.625" from base to fan mounting surface. These numbers look typical to anyone? Take away is that my new fan arc is almost an inch closer to the radiator than the old one.

 

[MyTwoToys]

Ok, here's what I know: my old pump and static fan were 7.25" to the outside edge of the fan. New pump, clutch, and fan are 8.125" to the same point. Old pump from base to flange (no pulley) is 6.188". New pump is 4.75" base to flange. Fan clutch by itself is 2.625" from base to fan mounting surface. These numbers look typical to anyone? Take away is that my new fan arc is almost an inch closer to the radiator than the old one.

76 Technician, I agree but have the question, will this fit without modifications.

I had an F in my 12/72 FJ-40 and that had the old metal fan set up. Anyway, I seized a crank bearing and found a 2F out of a 1985 FJ-60. I took measurements from the block and there is about 1" difference on the 2F set up, (1" closer to the radiator) My question is can I run this set up without making any changes to the position of the radiator or am I going to have to make changes? Thanks for the insight.

 

[shelfboy1]

those fans are used on other brands on vehicles not just landcruiser ,its possible that your fan may not be for a fj40 .i have the same fan on my trooper and my acura but never tried to interchange them

 

[MoCoNative]

Sorry I don't have measurements, but I did mess with this a bit. The conclusions above are correct, the larger fan and clutch setup does run closer to the radiator. I had the 4 blade metal fan on my 1F. I swapped the main pulley and waterpump and its pulley for later 2F stuff. An FJ60 main pulley, and I found the fan clutch water pump without the oil cooler pump, that was the same dimensions as the FJ60 water pump. It all went on and worked fine on my 1F. That is a similar scenario to what you are doing. The key to proper cooling is the shroud. The early metal fans had a longer/deeper shroud and the fan was further away from the radiator, but you want the fan blade to sit in the middle of the opening front to rear. In other words, when looking down, half the blade should be in the shroud and half out. This produces the best air movement. I had to find a 77ish fan shroud and fan to complete my conversion with the fan clutch. The later FJ60 fans are larger and won't really fit on an FJ40, so I had to find the rarer smaller plastic fan and matching shroud.

When it was all done, the tips of the blades are within 1/2 inch, maybe a tad more on the bottom, passenger side (right) of the radiator. The engines actually sit a slight angle, not straight to the radiator. So far I have not had any problems, and clearance to the fins of the radiator is more than enough, but closer than my prior setup. If your engine mounts are good, the engine does not move very much ever in a 40.

I searched the world for another fan that would work. It seems that there are many similar fans to our Land Cruiser fans, all made by Aisan, but none have the dimensions we need except Land Cruiser fans. Furthermore, the gas engines in Toyotas, typically use a larger bolt pattern on the fan and clutch, diesels and the 4 cylinder truck engines were smaller. Land Cruiser fans are also recessed the most, putting the front of the fan flat or even further back from the front of the clutch, while Supra fans and such that will bolt on, stick out towards the radiator more and will not work.

 

[76technician]

76 Technician, I agree but have the question, will this fit without modifications.

I had an F in my 12/72 FJ-40 and that had the old metal fan set up. Anyway, I seized a crank bearing and found a 2F out of a 1985 FJ-60. I took measurements from the block and there is about 1" difference on the 2F set up, (1" closer to the radiator) My question is can I run this set up without making any changes to the position of the radiator or am I going to have to make changes? Thanks for the insight.

I only had about (estimate, I didn't measure at the time) a total of one inch clearance from my stock (fixed blade) fan to the stock radiator so I would say you will definitely have to move something unless your F setup had more space. I was only able to move my radiator about 0.5" forward before it was hard against the front bib, when I was done I had just enough space to get a fan belt between the radiator and the fan. This was not enough space for me.

 

[76technician]

Shelfboy1 and MoCoNative, the fan I bought for the fan clutch setup was through a highly-respected vendor here, was used, and looked just right from all the pictures I've seen. It projected forward from the mounting point about as little as I would have thought it possible, as said above it almost swept back from the mounting points. I found that half an inch of clearance to the radiator was not enough in this case, and I checked my motor mounts afterward - all good, no shifting or broken mounts.

My resolution for now is abandoning the fan clutch and going back to the static fan that I know will fit. This is the most cost effective since I already own that fan and the proper AISIN replacement pump was $87 at Rockauto.

One other thing I learned - if you have trouble with a radiator in the southern Willamette valley, A1 Radiator in Eugene, OR knows LandCruiser radiators and fixed my brass-tanked aftermarket (Silla) for $65, about a week turnaround. If you're not in this area, there's probably a long-time business around you that's similar - it pays to ask around!

 

[MoCoNative]

I'll see if I have a pic. Did your fan eat the radiator? I just spent three days in Moab, putting the 40 through more abuse than it has seen in years. Never once had an issue, and we were fully flexed many times and giving her throttle in 4 Low, that should have moved something, or the interstate drive at 70MPH at times. Either way, I've been okay.

That is a great price for radiator repair, I had far more than that in a recore of my orginal many moons ago, then the re-core kept breaking and leaking in the corners, as I recall that was about $100 per repair, after two of those, I replaced the damn thing, no problems since.

 

[76technician]

Yep, my fan committed suicide and had the radiator for lunch at the same time. I forgot that I said that in a different post. Short story, bad Weber linkage caused huge RPM excursion, like 2800 to 4000+++ in under a second as the motor was unloaded suddenly, flexed the fan forward and took it out. I suppose the motor could have flexed a bit on the mounts (they are rubber after all). But the half inch I had didn't cut it. On top of that, the new setup was too deep into the shroud, so it wasn't great anyway.

I see now that the Weber kits for sale actually contain a return spring to help pull the linkage back closed. I had a half-arsed one rigged, now I feel better about making it more substantial.

The guy at my radiator shop does everything from cars (lots of Mercedes, he says) to heavy equipment, it's always nice to meet competent people doing good work! I had him replace the plastic (!) drain plug in the Silla radiator with brass while he was at it.

 

[MyTwoToys]

I finally got my re-built 2F in this weekend but when I mock up the radiator to the pump and fan clutch, I basically hit the radiator. 76 Technician says he put on his old 6 blade metal fan to solve the problem but when I looked at doing that to mine, the holes don't line up. I have the oil cooler on my 2f so can not just put the water pump on from my F. Plus, I need the 2 belt pulley as I will be installing Power Steering in the near future. Here are some pics of what mine looks like. The measurement from the block to the front of the pump spindle is 5 1/2 inches for both pumps and blocks so am not sure what my other options are at this point. Spot cruiser, that is the pump I have so again am wondering if I can make this work. Suggestions appreciated.

 

[Jdc1]

Get in touch with @beno , he set me up with a clutchless fan and pulley. I sourced the water pump from rock auto, it's an aisin. If i remember correctly it is from a 78 fj55 w/ 2f and oil cooler. Pm me tomorrow and I can get you part numbers.

 

[GA Architect]

I finally got my re-built 2F in this weekend but when I mock up the radiator to the pump and fan clutch, I basically hit the radiator. 76 Technician says he put on his old 6 blade metal fan to solve the problem but when I looked at doing that to mine, the holes don't line up. I have the oil cooler on my 2f so can not just put the water pump on from my F. Plus, I need the 2 belt pulley as I will be installing Power Steering in the near future. Here are some pics of what mine looks like. The measurement from the block to the front of the pump spindle is 5 1/2 inches for both pumps and blocks so am not sure what my other options are at this point. Spot cruiser, that is the pump I have so again am wondering if I can make this work. Suggestions appreciated.

Maybe this thread "Water Pump Answers" may help?

 

[76technician]

My solution ultimately was the Aisin pump # WPT020 from rockauto with my original plastic fan and pulley. The pump is high quality, with the original TEQ ground off of the casting. Be advised that it says it comes with a gasket, and shows the internal pump gasket. In fact it comes with an internal gasket installed (there was already light rust on the steel plate, so I cleaned stuff up and installed the new one) AND also the pump to block gasket. I bought a new pump to block gasket without needing it. I also bought new hoses to replace my junk CCOT ones that were cracking. Be ready for huge shipping charges from rockauto if all your parts come from different warehouses: the pump, excess gasket, and two hoses ran more than $35 in shipping, but the pump by itself would have been $13.

 

[Jdc1]

This is my clutch less set up. I used a new pulley but one of the last available and @beno had to bring it from Japan. I am sure one of the vendors can source a decent used one