Learn from me - Bad build experience Ed Martin - DSI/4WP left me hanging

[mbach]

My first thread is locked and I want to post an update.

DIS/4WP never honored compensating me for issues on my LC and time lost.
Further DSI/4WP did not work with me ongoing warranty work; I'm now on my own.

 

[Tex68w]

I only vaguely recall the details of your issue. Sorry to hear that no one is stepping on this for you.

 

[OregonLC]

Why was the original thread locked? Doesn't seem like anything was out of line in the postings.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Sorry to hear this is how it ended. Can’t say I’m surprised, but still definitely disappointed.

 

[Madtiger]

That sucks. Sorry to hear. I have not seen Ed Martin do any more postings…maybe no more LC to build?

 

[afgman786]

I think he left the forums.. people finally started to speak up about what those builds truly were. That dealership isn't even sponsored as a mud vendor anymore.

 

[Madtiger]

I think he left the forums.. people finally started to speak up about what those builds truly were. That dealership isn't even sponsored as a mud vendor anymore.

Last post by Eric was in November 2022.

 

[Tex68w]

Well there simply isn't any inventory for them to continue to do builds either. Maybe they will be back with Sequoia builds or the suspected Prado Land Cruiser, but I think they are kinda done with the aftermarket mod section of the business.

 

[BrownDog09]

I’m sorry that you’ve had this experience. It’s a lot of coin to drop on a special vehicle to have it ham fisted by amateurs.

We all know it’s not a shocker that a car dealer pulled this crap after all of the back slapping and joke telling as they walk you into finance to sign the deal. Sleezy car salesmen seem to be part and parcel of buying a car unfortunately.

At least it serves as a good data point for everyone here when good ol Eric shows back up looking to sell whatever it is he’s selling in the future…

 

[OregonLC]

I don't have a dog in this fight and have zero experience with @Eric Sarjeant , however before everyone pig piles on Eric this may be the case where the dealership has made the decision rather than how Eric wanted things to play out. There is still much OG in the car dealer world. While the right thing might be to own the success of the build, the dealer (not Eric per se) might choose to react otherwise if the build is bleeding money. The shop is a different department than sales and they're probably not a true partner in the risk. So every time the vehicle comes back, they just charge sales like any other customer all the while they have no clean playbook or leadership in house of how to correctly remedy. Reminds me of the time I took my 2000 into Beaverton Toyota to diagnose a driveline vibration and $150 later the recommendation was to install OEM tires. At the end of the day they're just not aligned with the aftermarket world.

As I read this, the lesson to us all seems to be the high value of the reputable independent 4wd shops. While a turn-key brand new vehicle package may seem enticing, this tale seems to show how valuable craftsmanship and skilled tradesman are when doing a custom build. Toyota techs don't necessarily have the required mindset or experience with custom aftermarket fitments. And while subbing it out to 4WP may solve the liability issue it didn't solve the quality issue.

Which is why I'd rather build than buy...

 

[Heritage 2020]

Greetings,

As many have stated, no one revels in the bad news of another’s misfortune as it can happen to any of us at any time.

In my experience over the years: I’ve primarily relied on family owned and independent businesses with with long track records of taking care of everything in house (no outsourcing)—for complex issues such as builds, installs, or repairs.

I’m fine with trusted dealerships for OEM maintenance, but not for aftermarket stuff—or complex modifications. If I buy a pre-owned build, the same applies.

A dealership spokesman no matter how well intended—has greater constraints, some good and some not so much.

That said, I understand that not everyone has access to that, nor priorities such—or May consider my view a bit over the top.

 

[Madtiger]

And to be fair, there have been plenty of positive experiences from members here dealing with Eric. He has helped several members out of a jam.

But yeah, it is disappointing to see that a member here got hosed by the dealer/3rd party shop.

 

[TeCKis300]

IIRC the original issues, there was complicating factors including inherent design issues of some aftermarket parts, install and availability of skill issues, and locality of the vehicle to the support network. Sure, for a high dollar example, the expectations should be higher. But that doesn't mean complicating factors can fully be avoided. It's a one off of a complex system. Unless something is OEM and fully designed and validated...

Welcome to the world of the aftermarket.

 

[OregonLC]

^^ specifically with the LRA tank product. This is a complex install to get right and I feel like I've read much here on their learning curve. I believe Slee also commented on the 12 gal not being a good fitment.

The manager of the dealer probably didn't understand the complexity and risk of some of these builds. They're not all just PNP. It's understandable that the dealer would ex-nay continuing down this path when it represents a small portion of revenue and a high risk to cost, reputation, and time. Doesn't mean he shouldn't make it right. But you also have to understand how many completely invalid complains and asks they get every day. Shunning problems becomes cultural.

 

[40Man]

I don't have a dog in this fight and have zero experience with @Eric Sarjeant , however before everyone pig piles on Eric this may be the case where the dealership has made the decision rather than how Eric wanted things to play out. There is still much OG in the car dealer world. While the right thing might be to own the success of the build, the dealer (not Eric per se) might choose to react otherwise if the build is bleeding money. The shop is a different department than sales and they're probably not a true partner in the risk. So every time the vehicle comes back, they just charge sales like any other customer all the while they have no clean playbook or leadership in house of how to correctly remedy. Reminds me of the time I took my 2000 into Beaverton Toyota to diagnose a driveline vibration and $150 later the recommendation was to install OEM tires. At the end of the day they're just not aligned with the aftermarket world.

As I read this, the lesson to us all seems to be the high value of the reputable independent 4wd shops. While a turn-key brand new vehicle package may seem enticing, this tale seems to show how valuable craftsmanship and skilled tradesman are when doing a custom build. Toyota techs don't necessarily have the required mindset or experience with custom aftermarket fitments. And while subbing it out to 4WP may solve the liability issue it didn't solve the quality issue.

Which is why I'd rather build than buy...

Good point, but Eric was on here in his capacity as an employee, and received a lot of business from it. On other forums, where a vendor treats members like this, they usually get banned. Maybe not a lot of effect here if they aren't doing more business, but it should be considered as a matter of course.

I'm not sure how your purchase agreement was set up @mbach, but if you hired Ed Martin directly, you may want to take them to court, as it seems the problems occurred immediately after the work was done as I recall. I'm also not sure what, if any warranty Ed Martin gave you, or what Indiana (I think that is where they are) requires for such work but most states have implied warranty in their code. If you were 4WP's customer, and notified them within 30 days, then they need to honor their warranty too. Warranties are great, and they are a binding agreement that the offering entity must honor or they are committing warranty fraud. I'd recommend finding a good litigator, hopefully on a contingency basis. Or take them to small claims. Review any agreements first to see if there is a binding arbitration clause. Not sure what your damages are, but small claims may be your best bet. Also check to see what the statute of limitations are for contract/warranty claims and make sure to file timely! Good luck.

 

[1Maverick]

^^ specifically with the LRA tank product. This is a complex install to get right and I feel like I've read much here on their learning curve. I believe Slee also commented on the 12 gal not being a good fitment.

The manager of the dealer probably didn't understand the complexity and risk of some of these builds. They're not all just PNP. It's understandable that the dealer would ex-nay continuing down this path when it represents a small portion of revenue and a high risk to cost, reputation, and time. Doesn't mean he shouldn't make it right. But you also have to understand how many completely invalid complains and asks they get every day. Shunning problems becomes cultural.

Curious how the 12.5 is not a good fitment. I have the the 12.5, no squeaks and works 100%, plus I can still keep my 295/70r18 on spare location

 

[OregonLC]

Curious how the 12.5 is not a good fitment. I have the the 12.5, no squeaks and works 100%, plus I can still keep my 295/70r18 on spare location

I'm only going by Slee's statement in the original thread.

 

[sleepycruiser]

My first thread is locked and I want to post an update.

DIS/4WP never honored compensating me for issues on my LC and time lost.
Further DSI/4WP did not work with me ongoing warranty work; I'm now on my own.

Just read through the original thread. What a mess. I assume you’ve spoken to an attorney? Businesses start to listen when paperwork starts to get sent out on attorney letterheads. In this instance it seems you would possibly have a case against both parties.

Note: I am not an attorney.