Koni Shocks Heavy Track/Raid

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bjowett

bjowett

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Tought some folks might be interested in reading some good news (at least I consider it good :D) Koni is soon bringing back the offroad line of dampers to the USA... Sold in Heavy Track and Raid guises, it is some of the best stuff you can buy. The HT includes the 30 series 2" mono tube and twin tube SPX. The Raid dampers are a nearly 3" diameter monster. Available for the 80 series and many others... Unsure if they will be producing extended length units, though some are listed under the Toyota Australia application section.

http://www.koni4x4.com/index.php?flash=1
 
If they are anywhere near as good as the Koni shocks I put on my Wife's BMW they will be worth every penny. After running Koni's I would pick them over Bilstein's Any time.

Cary
 
koni vs OME?

These koni's sound interesting...any opinions or experience on how they would compare to OME?
 
I have always been happy with Koni products. Koni has been making shocks since 1932. They have huge dollars into R&D and experience in all types of motoring. I'd be surprised if they couldn't make a better product than OME. However, I have no complaints about my OME suspension (except the springs are starting to show rust after 4 months).
 
The lifetime warranty and ability to change piston sizes is a plus as well.

(I've got koni's on the auto-xer).
 
made a call or two

I called the Tire Rack and Neuspeed. Both are Koni distributors, neither had heard of the Heavy Track model. Both said they would contact Koni tomorrow, and call me back. I'll post as I learn more.
 
Brian, it would be very nice to have a distributer on the board,

When they come to the states they need to have a longer than stock shock, most considering these for an 80 would have atleast the OME 2.5" lift
 
Good point Raven. Heavy damping and stock springs would not be a favorable combination, really. I have done suspension development and am a firm believer that springs and shocks should be matched to each other. Buying aftermarket shocks that "fit" the 80 (or any vehicle) often produce simply a different feel that owners perceive as uniformely good because they can tell a difference. The reality is often poor performance in many conditions and bump frequencies because these aftermarket shocks are generic in damping and simply meet the range of stroke requirement.

OME are known for producing springs and shocks in matched sets and I've always believed this is the very best approach to an install. I ride in vehicles once in a while whose owners enthuse about their new "MegaTerra" shocks and how great they are. Meanwhile, I'm in back feeling the odd toss here and there that indicate a typical mass market shock mismatch. Before buying any shock like this I'd ask the mfr for the damping characteristics. If the rep merely assures you they're matched for your rig and is unable to provide any data I'd pass. There was an excellent article on shocks a couple years ago in one of the Aussie mags. Showed damping graphs and how they changed under stress. many had poor curves, others really lost damping on repeat bumps such as washboard. Quite revealing.

DougM
 
Doug, it is great to have someone on here who really knows the hows and whys of suspension. Getting a Koni in tune with a certain spring rate is definetly an advantage that some may not appreciate. If one changes springs, they may be able to change the rebound to match. Different folks have different perceptions on what makes a vehicle ride or handle good... there are just so many variables.

I am currently working with some F150 Koni dampers on my 80, getting the rebound dialed in was a cinch. They do need more comp. dampening, though... so the I need to move in another direction... with Konis. :D
 
BJowett, you might try a call to Koni-na, the techs there have always been very hslpfull with my questions. You can have your current Koni's re-built to your own custom specs, and add features such as external rebound adjustment.

It's not exactly cheap, but it's generally cheaper than a new set of Koni's.
 
IdahoDoug said:
Good point Raven. Heavy damping and stock springs would not be a favorable combination, really. I have done suspension development and am a firm believer that springs and shocks should be matched to each other. Buying aftermarket shocks that "fit" the 80 (or any vehicle) often produce simply a different feel that owners perceive as uniformely good because they can tell a difference. The reality is often poor performance in many conditions and bump frequencies because these aftermarket shocks are generic in damping and simply meet the range of stroke requirement.


DougM
Click to expand...

I'd rather have overdampened than the alternative. I believe Koni develops shocks for individual applications, as does Bilstein. They then allow for different springs by having adjustable rebound dampening. Usually, the lowest rebound dampening position on Koni's corresponds to the proper setting for stock suspension, with the highest being for stiff springs once the shocks have worn quite a bit.

Also, as I am sure that many know, Bilstein will revalve shocks to your specifications for a nominal fee.

Cary
 
I know about the rbuild service...The 30 series is one of the few dampers that is not easily rebuildable/moddified by Koni... otherwise they would've been back by now.


Guesses on price per unit... 30 series high pressure mono tube will be in $75 range. The 8240 SPX could go anywhere from $75 - $110. I'll bet the big Raid damper will top $150.... maybe much more.
 
I paid $165 for each of my koni's on the Honda, so anything less than that would be cheap!
 
Cary,

I know you're not making it as a blanket statement as you're always inordinately well informed, but I'll use your comment about choosing uniformely overdamped as a preference to make a point on shocks. So don't take offense, ya palooka.

An overdamped shock on the compression side will limit suspension travel and generate higher levels of shock to the vehicle, its components, and its passengers. An overdamped suspension on the rebound side will cause the suspension to rebound less than it should and over successive bumps the suspension can "pack up" and eventually be using only the last bit of travel as it is unable to extend before the next bump. Similar foibles exist for almost any generic shock strategy as they're rarely tailored to a vehicle.

Examples of tailoring include:]

The spring rates at static load.
The spring rates at various compressed states (progressive? linear? steeply progressive?)
The suspension arm lengths (short? long?)
The shock mounts themselves (parallel to suspension? Slightly angled to add progressive?)
The mass of the vehicle. (curb weight, plus max GVWR as well)
The wheelbase.
The track width.
The roll center (both front and rear).
The mass of the axle assembly.
etc, etc.

To these variables are added the vehicle's intended usage. Is it going to be on the street (factory setup), or are you going wheeling heavily laden with a lift (Photoman's setup)? And on and on. It's quite a complex process to find the ideal, and sometimes even to get the vehicle's handling characteristics into the "acceptable" envelope. Buying a set of "MegaTerras" at the local Shucks will often get you a shock that has the exact same parameters as the one they sell for the Chevy Blazer. Yes, they have a different part number, but that's simply a sticker. The reason is economic of course - MegaTerra is a factory in Malaysia pumping out shocks and they can't be bothered with things like development and R&D.

The best approach would be (no surprise) to spend a chunk of time and money to get quality dampers that are matched to your vehicle and springs. That way, you will hook up with the upper echelon of manufacturers who compete on quality and have R&D budgets. I think that article was in the Aussie 4WD Monthly magazine and it was a good one. It's kind of surprising that a shock is not sold with its damping curve right on the box as that's what you're buying - not the pretty paint and glossy ads in the mags. Why aren't they? You do the math.

DougM
 
The koni raids etc are made for French vehicles for offroad, arent available out of france that I know of, and a set was worth $2700 Aus for 4 , which is more than the 88 series is worth at $1400 odd Aus.

IMHO the Bilstien is great on a vehicle under 2500kg with its velocity valving auto adjusting, and Koni are good on max GVM 80's and 100's etc.

OME are the best marketed shock on the market, and I have never got a set to last out of warranty.....
 
That's the pricing I'm more familiar with - very high quality Koni motorcycle shocks are often >$1,000 for the main shock!

Cheers, Hugh
 
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