KO2s Feel "Rough" After Rotate/Balance

[MrCWineMan]

Any update here as this is exactly my story so far (tires, size, Discount Tire, and everything). Also @Dan Higgins - where is CO are you - My local discount tire is very willing to work with me, but I have been on the road so long I haven't had the chance.

Edit: 2/11/17- I actually mean Big O, sorry.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Any update here as this is exactly my story so far (tires, size, Discount Tire, and everything). Also @Dan Higgins - where is CO are you - My local discount tire is very willing to work with me, but I have been on the road so long I haven't had the chance.

Highlands Ranch.

As for an update, I have set the KO2s aside for a while. I put on dedicated snow tires as I am doing a couple mountain and PNW road trips over the couple months.

The snow tire, Nokians, also feel a bit rough. I am wondering if I have alignment or wheel issues. Taking it in for an alignment check on Tuesday.

What DT are you working with? (They are all over.). Since I purchased from DT I expect I can go to any of them for a balance check.

 

[Dan Higgins]

With rotating the tires, I believe in keeping the tires on the same side of the vehicle when possible, as is officially recommended by Lexus, rather than the rearward cross recommended by TireRack.

Just as a follow up, they had not roasted the tires per the Toyota guidance but rather using the forward cross method. I had them change it though o didn't notice a huge difference.

 

[MrCWineMan]

Highlands Ranch.

As for an update, I have set the KO2s aside for a while. I put on dedicated snow tires as I am doing a couple mountain and PNW road trips over the couple months.

The snow tire, Nokians, also feel a bit rough. I am wondering if I have alignment or wheel issues. Taking it in for an alignment check on Tuesday.

What DT are you working with? (They are all over.). Since I purchased from DT I expect I can go to any of them for a balance check.

I'm working with the Grand Junction DT, so not close. They have never failed me before, be it 35's on my gen 4 4Runner or 33 KO2's on my FJ60. I also purchased from them, and based on the local guys, they will stop at nothing to be sure it is right. Ask how I know...

Update 2/11/17: I realize that my brain was lost when I typed this- I have been using Big O here not Discount, my bad.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Good to know. I travel through GJ from time to time.

 

[Dan Higgins]

I put Nokian Hakka...s on this past week. I still get a lot of vibration though the body that I don't remember before a couple weeks ago when I had my KO2s rotated. I was hoping the change of tire (which I chose to do in support of a northerly road trip I'll be taking in the next few weeks) would put me in something more compliant (33 PSI on the Nokians) and maybe remove a possible issue with the KO2s. No significant change. I'm taking it into Toyota on Tuesday for an alignment check and to have them check the wheel balancing.

Which brings me to a related topic. If I were to get a 2nd set of wheels to use with the KO2s that would be strong wheels for doing easy to moderate offroad what would you recommend. 18" wheel (my KO2s are 285/65 R18). How they look means 0 to me. I would prefer to avoid modifications/spacers if possible. My plan would be to keep the snow tires on one wheel set and the KO2s on another. Are the stock wheels the best choice?

 

[40Man]

I put Nokian Hakka...s on this past week. I still get a lot of vibration though the body that I don't remember before a couple weeks ago when I had my KO2s rotated. I was hoping the change of tire (which I chose to do in support of a northerly road trip I'll be taking in the next few weeks) would put me in something more compliant (33 PSI on the Nokians) and maybe remove a possible issue with the KO2s. No significant change. I'm taking it into Toyota on Tuesday for an alignment check and to have them check the wheel balancing.

Which brings me to a related topic. If I were to get a 2nd set of wheels to use with the KO2s that would be strong wheels for doing easy to moderate offroad what would you recommend. 18" wheel (my KO2s are 285/65 R18). How they look means 0 to me. I would prefer to avoid modifications/spacers if possible. My plan would be to keep the snow tires on one wheel set and the KO2s on another. Are the stock wheels the best choice?

Who put on the new set? Unless you had vibration before you put the KO2s, I would venture it isn't alignment (still good to have checked)

If it was the same DT, it sounds like the are the problem. Did you verify that they have a Haweka adapter? Not all DT locations do. While not quite a necessity, unless the installer is really good, not using the adapter can lead to issues you are describing. I know this from dealing with this same issue.

If technicians use normal front cones and a wing nut to hold the Toyota hun centric wheel on the backside centering cone, there is the potential for mounting the wheel with a very slight wobble, off-center, or with tension on one edge of the front cone that relieves itself when spinning or hammering on weights. These are often common with inexperienced technicians, and they can all be avoided if using the Haweka adapter because it will ensure the wheel is mounted straight every time.

 

[Dan Higgins]

I didn't ask them about the Haweka. To be honest, they were getting a bit defensive and I didn't want to make more of a fuss since I'm taking it in to the dealership on Tuesday. If the dealer is able to "get it right" then that will confirm that DT is the problem. I'll ask the dealer if they use the adapter and how they account for these wheels on the LC. Do Tundras or other Toyota vehicles have the same wheels/challenges?

 

[40Man]

I didn't ask them about the Haweka. To be honest, they were getting a bit defensive and I didn't want to make more of a fuss since I'm taking it in to the dealership on Tuesday. If the dealer is able to "get it right" then that will confirm that DT is the problem. I'll ask the dealer if they use the adapter and how they account for these wheels on the LC. Do Tundras or other Toyota vehicles have the same wheels/challenges?

Toyota wheels are hub centric. Most balancers balance on the hub. The Haweka accounts for that. I actually ran into balancing issues on my Tacoma (6 lug), but made sure my tire shop used the adapter with all future vehicles.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Got it. The other variable that entered the picture when all this began was that the spare wheel was introduced into the rotation for the first time. I'm wondering if there is an issue with that wheel. But I'll let the Toyota dealer look at all that on Tuesday. I'll post what we learn. All of this is helpful.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Toyota wheels are hub centric. Most balancers balance on the hub. The Haweka accounts for that. I actually ran into balancing issues on my Tacoma (6 lug), but made sure my tire shop used the adapter with all future vehicles.

@bamma, you may have solved it! In one last ditch attempt before taking it into Toyota tomorrow I visited the DT store and asked if they used a Haweka. "A what?", they asked. Never heard of it. So I explained what it is in general. They took me to their manager. All I needed to do is mention that they were Toyota wheels. He understood the issue right away. The have what they call "finger plates" to address the hub-centric challenges of Toyota and similar wheels. These had never been used with my wheels. Instead, they just threw the wheels on "the cone". So they did it again with the "finger plate". Much better. I'm still going to have Toyota have do an alignment check tomorrow but thanks to your suggestion it looks like the wheel balance issue has been solved. And, BTW, I put the KO2s back on while doing this so they balanced them with the KO2s. Feeling much better about my upcoming road trip!

 

[MrCWineMan]

@bamma, you may have solved it! In one last ditch attempt before taking it into Toyota tomorrow I visited the DT store and asked if they used a Haweka. "A what?", they asked. Never heard of it. So I explained what it is in general. They took me to their manager. All I needed to do is mention that they were Toyota wheels. He understood the issue right away. The have what they call "finger plates" to address the hub-centric challenges of Toyota and similar wheels. These had never been used with my wheels. Instead, they just threw the wheels on "the cone". So they did it again with the "finger plate". Much better. I'm still going to have Toyota have do an alignment check tomorrow but thanks to your suggestion it looks like the wheel balance issue has been solved. And, BTW, I put the KO2s back on while doing this so they balanced them with the KO2s. Feeling much better about my upcoming road trip!

Good to know!

 

[40Man]

@bamma, you may have solved it! In one last ditch attempt before taking it into Toyota tomorrow I visited the DT store and asked if they used a Haweka. "A what?", they asked. Never heard of it. So I explained what it is in general. They took me to their manager. All I needed to do is mention that they were Toyota wheels. He understood the issue right away. The have what they call "finger plates" to address the hub-centric challenges of Toyota and similar wheels. These had never been used with my wheels. Instead, they just threw the wheels on "the cone". So they did it again with the "finger plate". Much better. I'm still going to have Toyota have do an alignment check tomorrow but thanks to your suggestion it looks like the wheel balance issue has been solved. And, BTW, I put the KO2s back on while doing this so they balanced them with the KO2s. Feeling much better about my upcoming road trip!

Glad you were able to get it sorted out.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Sitting at the dealership now. Alignment was off. They realigned. Then they did a high speed driving check (with my permission) and found they needed to rebalance a couple tires after which they did the drive test again. (Or maybe they were looking for reasons to take it out for a joy ride!

 

[40Man]

Sitting at the dealership now. Alignment was off. They realigned. Then they did a high speed driving check (with my permission) and found they needed to rebalance a couple tires after which they did the drive test again. (Or maybe they were looking for reasons to take it out for a joy ride!

Not surprising. DT has good prices (and they'll even price match DT Direct, TireBuyer.com and others). They just seem to suck at balancing Toyota wheels. I have bought my last few sets of tires from Tirebuyer.com and had them installed at Firestone, and they have been much better.

 

[Dan Higgins]

One final update. After the Toyota dealer finally got everything balanced and 1,000 miles into a road trip these things are riding great. I aired down for a short drive in the Moab area (thing difficult, just wanted it to be a bit more comfortable on a rutted road.) Aired back up and drove to Sedona. Don't tell Gaijin but they are sitting at 39.5 PSI now because I am too lazy to pull out the compressor just to add 0.5 PSI.

So for those who think they may feel rougher and sound noisier when you first put them on, I am thinking that this dissipates after a couple thousand miles. I have 7K on 3 of them and 1.5K on what was the spare as it was rotated into the mix. Riding great now.

 

[cru1s3r]

I just visited my local Discount Tire to rebalance my recently mounted snow tires, and the grease monkey smugly informed me that they always do a hub-centric balance on Toyotas because that's how their wheels mount, AND that what I read on the internet is likely mis-information. I thought all DT operations had the same equipment...turns out, they don't.

 

[Oakleyguy]

@Dan Higgins I had a similar experience with my 100 series and KO2s. Once I had Mountain States Toyota rebalance them with a road force machine, it was night and day. Glad you got it figured out.

 

[Dan Higgins]

I did. Thanks. Still loving the KO2s. And once my DT dealer realized that they need to use the finger plate thingy the balancing has gone great every time. They now know that they need to use that every time they do a Toyota.

 

[cru1s3r]

Wish my DT dealer (and their grease monkeys) would even acknowledge that a finger plate is needed. The clown spent more time arguing with me about it than it would take to just do the job! Sheesh - aren't these locations in sync with regards to training and equipment? I wish I could have them call a GOOD location for some how-to education...