KO2s Feel "Rough" After Rotate/Balance

[Dan Higgins]

A couple weeks ago I had Discount Tire do a 5-tire rotation of my KO2s and rebalance them. It had been about 6500 miles since they were originally installed and balanced and this was the first rotation. Their first shot at balancing was not right and I could feel it in the steering vibration and a bit of pull to the right. They rebalanced and admitted that all 4 tires had been off due to some issue with their machine. After the rebalance, the steering vibration and slight pull were gone but they still don't feel near as smooth as they did before I took them in to DT.

Aside from taking them back to DT, anything I should be looking for? I have a couple ideas but I don't want to lead the witness.

BTW, I am going to put some P-rated snow/ice tires (probably Haks) on before a couple of upcoming, pavement-only, long road trips through Wy, Mt, PNW, etc. where snow is a given and ice likely. But I would like to sort out the KO2s before I put them back on in April.

Update: Looks like the problem is solved. Discount Tire had not been using what they call a "finger plate" when doing the balance. These are important when attempting to balance Toyota wheels. @bamma pointed this out be referencing the Haweka adapter. I pressed DT on it and uncovered that they had these finger plates but the guys doing the balance did not realize they were important to use. (Their manager set them straight once he understood what was going on.) They re-balanced them using the appropiate adapter and it appears to have addressed the issue. Still doing an alignment check tomorrow but feeling much better!

 

[40Man]

1. Sometimes after a rotation you will have noise for a couple hundred miles.

2. Tire installers put the tires that balance the worst in back when you buy them new. Roating them forward can sometimes show their flaws.

3. Make sure they have the haweka adapter and they road force balace your wheels.

 

[Mountain Pig]

A couple weeks ago I had Discount Tire do a 5-tire rotation of my KO2s and rebalance them. It had been about 6500 miles since they were originally installed and balanced and this was the first rotation. Their first shot at balancing was not right and I could feel it in the steering vibration and a bit of pull to the right. They rebalanced and admitted that all 4 tires had been off due to some issue with their machine. After the rebalance, the steering vibration and slight pull were gone but they still don't feel near as smooth as they did before I took them in to DT.

Aside from taking them back to DT, anything I should be looking for? I have a couple ideas but I don't want to lead the witness.

BTW, I am going to put some P-rated snow/ice tires (probably Haks) on before a couple of upcoming, pavement-only, long road trips through Wy, Mt, PNW, etc. where snow is a given and ice likely. But I would like to sort out the KO2s before I put them back on in April.

If you plan on heading up here any time in the next couple weeks, don't go cheap on the snow tires! The whole Northwest is getting hammered with snow right now. 12" in the last 24 hours, with a warning in effect for a possible 2-3FEET by Tuesday!!! Thus, ice, ice, baby...

 

[Romer]

Possible the poor balance messed with your alignment. Have you checked the torque on the lug nuts? What size rims are you running?

 

[Dan Higgins]

If you plan on heading up here any time in the next couple weeks, don't go cheap on the snow tires! The whole Northwest is getting hammered with snow right now. 12" in the last 24 hours, with a warning in effect for a possible 2-3FEET by Tuesday!!! Thus, ice, ice, baby...

Thanks for the heads up! The trip is a few weeks away. By then I'll have Nokian Hakk... R2 SUVs on. I don't want to go studded. I had the Hakkas on my LR4 the last 2 winters and loved them. And, yes, I expect that snow and ice could be problematic in the PNW - especially compared to Colorado.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Possible the poor balance messed with your alignment. I'm going to Toyota for a checkup in a week or so. I'll have them check. Have you checked the torque on the lug nuts? Have not. I will this afternoon. I supposed the torque is in the handbook? What size rims are you running? 18s. Stock.

 

[Markuson]

Grab a decent torque wrench. It's really nice to remove all guesswork. So many factors can make it hard to judge (length of wrench...bad angle with your weight on the wrench or not...just feeling wimpy on a given day, etc.). Torque wrench makes it a no-brainer.

By the way...as per instructions:
-Spidertrax spacers to 97lbs + a bit of blue locktite...
-Wheels to 87lbs.

 

[Sandroad]

I suggest taking it to another tire place for the balancing; one that uses road force balancing. If the DT place you used messed up the balance the first time, there's no particular reason they got the machine just right for the second time either. I had exactly the same experience at a DT near me and when I took the vehicle (not my LC) to another tire place they got the balance just right and smooth. It will cost you the price of another balancing, but it may save the tires in the long run.

 

[Markuson]

You might wanna check for cupping on the tires that sound noisy. Could be that when they rotated your tires, they moved a more-cupped tire to the front, which would be much noisier than the less-cupped tire it could have replaced in that position... (speaking from experience after a bad alignment, and the effects of it on a long road trip).

 

[gaijin]

Grab a decent torque wrench. It's really nice to remove all guesswork. So many factors can make it hard to judge (length of wrench...bad angle with your weight on the wrench or not...just feeling wimpy on a given day, etc.). Torque wrench makes it a no-brainer.

By the way...as per instructions:
-Spidertrax spacers to 97lbs + a bit of blue locktite...
-Wheels to 87lbs.

I don't know what Spidertrax recommends, but for the stock 18" wheels like Dan Higgins is running, Toyota recommends a wheel nut torque of 97 ft•lbf (131 N•m, 13.4 kgf•m).

87 would be under spec.

HTH

 

[Dan Higgins]

Thanks. I do have a torque wrench. 2 actually as I use them with my trailer hitch. I'll make sure the torque is 97.

I'll also look for a place that does road force balancing. Not sure what the DT guys were using. It was a freebie as I bought the tires from them. Not the first time I've had an issue with their balancing.

 

[Markuson]

I don't know what Spidertrax recommends, but for the stock 18" wheels like Dan Higgins is running, Toyota recommends a wheel nut torque of 97 ft•lbf (131 N•m, 13.4 kgf•m).

87 would be under spec.

HTH

Oops. Yes. Brain flip.

Spacers torque onto the hubs at 97lbs.

Wheels torque at 97 to spacers.

My brain flip came from this:
-Spidertrax has you do a "check" of sorts, using 87lbs. at one point. I was remembering that step...

Note the reference to 87 in step 4...but it was a temporary check.

PS... When in dispute on a wheel/tire-related spec? -Go with @gaijin

 

[Dan Higgins]

Gaijin. Got it.

Discount Tire is doing a road force balance now. They had not done this before. We'll see if any issues show up. I am speculating that the issue is with the spare that was rotated into service and has never been on the road.

 

[pdxlc200]

I had this same issue with my rig. It turned out that the rear right tire wears a little faster than the rear left tire. Whey they did the rotation, the rear right tire went to the front left... this caused a big pull and some wobble. They replaced the tire for free and everything went back to normal.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Thanks. Discount Tire did a road force balance. The were minor changes but no issues and no tires out of round. Put everything back on. its worse. Now it vibrates a bit and pulls a bit to the right. Not a lot but noticeable and something that did not exist before I took them in to be rotated and balanced. I'm taking it in to the Toyota dealer next week. I'll have them check the alignment. Also putting dedicated snow tires on next week. I'll if that makes a difference.

 

[Markuson]

Thanks. Discount Tire did a road force balance. The were minor changes but no issues and no tires out of round. Put everything back on. its worse. Now it vibrates a bit and pulls a bit to the right. Not a lot but noticeable and something that did not exist before I took them in to be rotated and balanced. I'm taking it in to the Toyota dealer next week. I'll have them check the alignment. Also putting dedicated snow tires on next week. I'll if that makes a difference.

Check your pressures. When Discount installed my KO2's, they put an absurd 55PSI in them all round...

 

[Chocolate]

With rotating the tires, I believe in keeping the tires on the same side of the vehicle when possible, as is officially recommended by Lexus, rather than the rearward cross recommended by TireRack.

 

[40Man]

Thanks. Discount Tire did a road force balance. The were minor changes but no issues and no tires out of round. Put everything back on. its worse. Now it vibrates a bit and pulls a bit to the right. Not a lot but noticeable and something that did not exist before I took them in to be rotated and balanced. I'm taking it in to the Toyota dealer next week. I'll have them check the alignment. Also putting dedicated snow tires on next week. I'll if that makes a difference.

Did they use a Haweka adapter? Unless the tech is really good, you won't get a good balance without the adapter with Toyota's hub centric wheels. I learned this the hard way with my Tacoma at discount when I had the og BFG KOs installed. Tons of noise and pulling. Took it to a DT with the haweka and all the issues went away. They also ended up using far fewer wheel weights.

 

[Dan Higgins]

Did they use a Haweka adapter? Unless the tech is really good, you won't get a good balance without the adapter with Toyota's hub centric wheels. I learned this the hard way with my Tacoma at discount when I had the og BFG KOs installed. Tons of noise and pulling. Took it to a DT with the haweka and all the issues went away. They also ended up using far fewer wheel weights.

I'll look into that. Thanks.

 

[Dan Higgins]

With rotating the tires, I believe in keeping the tires on the same side of the vehicle when possible, as is officially recommended by Lexus, rather than the rearward cross recommended by TireRack.

Land Cruiser owners manual has the same thing. I am going to take it back tomorrow and see if they did it this way.