Calling this thing a locker is just like calling the Eaton G80 (Gov-loc, POS) a locker... And yes, this is a trick question...
YouTube - How a Eaton G80 locker works
YouTube - How a Eaton G80 locker works
Kaiser Locker (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Manuelsv
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When I first saw the exploded view I was thinking clutch bearing. It would be nice to see one up close and in person. It appears to me that this is something different than what people have seen.
To often when new products come to market people who don't understand them and quickly call BS. I for one welcome new products.
To often when new products come to market people who don't understand them and quickly call BS. I for one welcome new products.
If I understand the diagrams correctly, I believe an individual axle can spin as much faster, and for as long as it wants, than the carrier and other axle.
Here are my illustration attempts (side views).
1) Normal drive
--\___/----\___/---- Outer ring (applies power)
------O--------O----- Pin bearings
-----\_/-------\_/--- Inner ring--hooked up to axels
In this case the outer ring "jams" the pin bearings into the inner rings divots, and the inner ring is forced to spin as fast as the outer ring (in my illustration the pin bearings are too small relative to the divots in the outer an inner gear)
2) One side starts spinning faster
--\___/----\___/---- Outer ring (applies power)
---------O---------O- Pin bearings
--\_/------\_/------\_ Inner ring--hooked up to the axels
In this case the forward motion of the inner ring moves the pin bearings into the divot area of the outer ring. This creates enough room between the pin bearings and the inner ring such that the inner ring can spin freely (i.e., the pin bearings are no longer sitting in the divots in the inner ring--rather they "bouncing" in and out of the inner ring divots as the inner ring continues to spin at a rate faster than driven by the input axels.)
That's how I visualized this, not sure if I'm right (hope my illustrations work...)
The slot in the Spider or Drive Unit that the axel goes into.
Where would a truetrac go if you took out the helical gears or a detroit if you took out the springs, etc.? Not sure I understand what you're asking here?
Semantics but:
Up/Out/Lift = Away from the center and the drive unit, towards the carrier = Unlocked.
Down/In/Lowered = Towards the center and the Drive unit, away from the Carrier = Resting/Starting position and Locked.
BTDT.
1 Wheel Up = That wheel is Open.
2 wheels Up/In Gear = 1 on its own turns, the other won't (Locked).
2 Wheels up/Out of Gear = Same as In gear except turning both turns both wheels and the trans. Trans has more resistance to turning than the locker does to opening for over run.
The cage holds the Bearings Down/In to the Drive Unit/Spider. The sloped shape of the groove in the drive unit 'lifts' the bearing against the cage pressure out of the groove when the drive unit is turned faster than the carrier in the direction of drive. This allows the drive unit to turn faster than the carrier (in the direction of drive) as it slips past the bearings. As soon as the wheel applied force making the axel go faster decreases the bearing 'falls' back into the groove on the drive unit under pressure from the cage and the shape of the groove in the carrier and the axel/wheel is limited to driven speed, not slower. The bearings and cage rotate at the same speed as the carrier at all times. They can't get past the grooves in the carrier.
Go look at the exploded view again and take a good look at the shape of the grooves in the drive unit and the carrier.
Sonk... Yeah, you're getting it and you're probably right...
But what most ppl are leaving out is... Drive around your block... Make 4 rights, or 4 lefts... There is NO WAY every time you come back to straight, the carrier returns to straight and the slots for the needles on BOTH SIDES line up exactly down the middle so, "every time it takes off, it's locked"
And even if they do in the carrier, since the wheel covered more distance on the outside of the turn than the inside, the wheel/ axle will not be exactly centered... (the relation of the needle bearing in the slot)
My point is; They are not always at the same positions, so the distances to reach the stops are not the same. A vehicle WILL drive as long as the needles on ONE axle hit the end of the stops on ONE side of the carrier, and calling it locked from the driver seat is BS...
But what most ppl are leaving out is... Drive around your block... Make 4 rights, or 4 lefts... There is NO WAY every time you come back to straight, the carrier returns to straight and the slots for the needles on BOTH SIDES line up exactly down the middle so, "every time it takes off, it's locked"
And even if they do in the carrier, since the wheel covered more distance on the outside of the turn than the inside, the wheel/ axle will not be exactly centered... (the relation of the needle bearing in the slot)
My point is; They are not always at the same positions, so the distances to reach the stops are not the same. A vehicle WILL drive as long as the needles on ONE axle hit the end of the stops on ONE side of the carrier, and calling it locked from the driver seat is BS...
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Spot on. Only thing missing is the cage around the bearings (shown in red on the video). This cage applies a force to hold the bearings in the divots in the drive member (down in your diagram). So it's 'locked' at rest or when both wheels are traveling at the same speed. The cage force is pretty minimal though so it doesn't take very much force from the drive unit being turned to 'lift' the bearings out so the drive unit can turn.
Ah, I think I see where the confusion is. You are thinking that the needles slide from side to side and lock each drive unit together? Nope. They stay centered over their own drive unit. There is a slip ring/washer, whatever you want to call it that keeps the 2 drive units AND the breaings seperate from each other.
You can make as many turns as you want in either direction and it doesn't bind up.
You think I haven't 'tried' to confuse this thing??
You can make as many turns as you want in either direction and it doesn't bind up.
You think I haven't 'tried' to confuse this thing??
yes, I know that... And I see how in the event of an individual wheel spin-out, the "cage" is grooved so that it touches the other one it its groove and the other side is driven... (just like a limited slip)
And as always, yeah, I still could be missing so something, but I doubt it...
Most of our problem here is a communications breakdown... i.e you might have a name you call one part, and I, another...
So as we're going I'm describing one thing and calling it one thing, and you're describing another and calling it another... Just as if we're having a conversation in two different languages...
)And as always, yeah, I still could be missing so something, but I doubt it...
Most of our problem here is a communications breakdown... i.e you might have a name you call one part, and I, another...
So as we're going I'm describing one thing and calling it one thing, and you're describing another and calling it another... Just as if we're having a conversation in two different languages...
so, without the needle bearings, I answered another part of my own question...
The cages are grooved symmetrically, and fit within themselves...
So even w/o the needle bearings (on one side), opposite axle drive will still be permitted... This is the only thing that keeps it from being an inverse open diff...
the needle bearings permit so much fwd and backward play, until the stops...
The cages are grooved symmetrically, and fit within themselves...
So even w/o the needle bearings (on one side), opposite axle drive will still be permitted... This is the only thing that keeps it from being an inverse open diff...
the needle bearings permit so much fwd and backward play, until the stops...
You want to try and 'describe' how a new design of locker works in words only with only an incomplete (key part missing) exploded diagram and a confusing video to assist? Sh!t, I am surprised anybody got it
Yes I was concerned about naming things so I tried to use the same terms I put in the list of parts in my post at the beginning throughout.
If you want to consider a locker that allows 1/30th (30 bearings per drive unit) of a turn before locking up a LSD, I won't argue with you (any more) but to me its a locker. Can't remember how many teeth there are on a detroit but it must allow that many fractions of a turn before locking back up from open so I guess that would be a LSD as well (OK, I argued).....
It works. Honestly, it does......
Yes I was concerned about naming things so I tried to use the same terms I put in the list of parts in my post at the beginning throughout.
If you want to consider a locker that allows 1/30th (30 bearings per drive unit) of a turn before locking up a LSD, I won't argue with you (any more) but to me its a locker. Can't remember how many teeth there are on a detroit but it must allow that many fractions of a turn before locking back up from open so I guess that would be a LSD as well (OK, I argued).....
It works. Honestly, it does......
yes, I know that... And I see how in the event of an individual wheel spin-out, the "cage" is grooved so that it touches the other one it its groove and the other side is driven... (just like a limited slip
And as always, yeah, I still could be missing so something, but I doubt it...
Most of our problem here is a communications breakdown... i.e you might have a name you call one part, and I, another...
So as we're going I'm describing one thing and calling it one thing, and you're describing another and calling it another... Just as if we're having a conversation in two different languages...
- Thread starter
- #72
To the OP, if you are still considering how to get it installed. Since you're in Phoenix, take it down to the Mesa branch of Desert Rat and ask for Shaun. He installed mine. It's a LOT cheaper if you pull the 3rd yourself and just take that down, but if you want to just drive in and drive out I am sure they will accommodate you.....
Thanks
Ian[/QUOTE]
Thank you.. I will pickup the Kaiser Monday, and install it next weekend.. Thanks for the adivce..
Thanks
Ian[/QUOTE]
Thank you.. I will pickup the Kaiser Monday, and install it next weekend.. Thanks for the adivce..
Can't wait for a review of this one
I like the "over engineered" aspect of it.
I like the "over engineered" aspect of it.
Thank you.. I will pickup the Kaiser Monday, and install it next weekend.. Thanks for the adivce..
Can't wait to hear about your experiences. In your interactions with Kaiser, were there any indications as to whether or not this differential is available, or planned to be available, for the 100?
- Thread starter
- #75
Got the Locker
Got it yesterday.. Now for the install and write up.
I hope to find some time to
this week. I am still considering the install myself. looks like it shouldn't be too terribly hard. 
Again if anyone in Phoenix wants to lend a hand 
It would be greatly appreciated!
Got it yesterday.. Now for the install and write up. I hope to find some time to
this week. I am still considering the install myself. looks like it shouldn't be too terribly hard. Again if anyone in Phoenix wants to lend a hand It would be greatly appreciated! 
Pics please.
Gear install
Send that 3rd to us, I'll give a good deal so I can see it. Or you could bring it to zuk in chandler, Toyota Gear Installs he posts a lot of pics of all his installs.
Send that 3rd to us, I'll give a good deal so I can see it. Or you could bring it to zuk in chandler, Toyota Gear Installs he posts a lot of pics of all his installs.
I hope to find some time to
It works. Honestly, it does......
I hope you're not thinking I'm trying to disprove you? I know it works, rest assured... I just want to know how it works...
If you could sell a diff with a few JB welded spider gears and say it gives you more traction, I am POSITIVE consumers would buy it
That doesn't mean I'd buy it though
Didn't mean to step on any toes. You asked for input from anybody who might have one or know about it and suggestions on getting it installed and Desert Rat are the only shop that I know to have installed one at this point. There is nothing to it though as it's just a carrier swap and any shop that works on diffs could easily do it of course. If you have the tools (which I don't right now), doing it yourself as you suggest would be really simple.
Went up to the Saguaro Lake area on Sunday just to play around and try it out in some other types of terrain. It handled the loose or rocky washed out play hill climbs and descents really well. I was most impressed with the way it behaved in loose sandy stuff though like the wash bottoms. Fast runs through the twists and turns and banks on really soft stuff didn't faze it and I wasn't sliding around or losing grip.
Good luck with the install.
Ian
