Just food for thought ...

[REKCUT]

IMHO, one of the larger points being addressed in this thread is the two different directions the club should take in regards to membership. One is that the TLCA should be all inclusive with its members, makes , and models. Two is that it should be exclusive and hold to more tradational models and members who actually wheel and go to events. Neither of these directions are addressed in the misson or goal statement.

My personal thoughts are that the TLCA should be all inclusive and the local chapters can be as exclusive as they want.

 

[Trollhole]

Wow, what a thread. Someone finally had the balls to post this up on the public side. I could write a book and make a hundred quotes with questions and answers to everyone's post. I'll spare y'all this time.

I'm a meat and potatoes guy so don't expect fancy words.

I've been bitching about most of what Kowboy said in his first post for the past two years while on the BOD. Most have just left it alone. Ignored it or asked for me to come up with a fix or fix the problems myself. If people don't bitch you will never know you have a problem until it is too late.


My stance.

I have no issue with TT. Todd does a hell of a job. If it brings in money and people like it I'm all for it.
What I would like to see is it being sold in more avenues. If there are 2000 extra copies I don't see why these couldn't be sold to distribution companies who put it on book stands and in grocery stores. Heck just sell it to book stores at airports. Everyone needs reading material. TT is the single best avenue currently TLCA has to advertise it's self. But yet we want to keep the best marketing tool we have to ourselves. I currently produce a catalog for my company. I print 4000 catalogs every year. I only have 2000 customers. The other 2000 go to potential customers of which 10% actually become new customers. Why TLCA doesn't do this? I've been told it was because it was a member privilege. ????

I think TLCA should allocate some of it's funds and resources to help promoting local clubs. I was told this was not a good idea because the local clubs only make up 25% of the TLCA membership and it wouldn't be fair to the other 75% that are not involved in the local clubs. The way I see it if TLCA is helping promote the local clubs TLCA could possibly help grow them which would eventually lead to better events and more clubs popping up you would gain more TLCA member and give the local clubs more of a stake in TLCA.

I think we have missed the boat when it comes to the FJC crowd. I don't think TT had anything to do with it. I rest a majority of the blame on the local clubs for not welcoming them with open arms. To many core old farts with the "It's not a Land Cruiser" mentality screwed the pooch on that one. Why belong to a local club who represents TLCA in their area who doesn't want you involved? The "Land Cruiser" mentality also has hurt the other Toyota 4x4's getting into the clubs. Todd K. I will agree with you on this aspect. But you yourself have done a little bit of shunning yourself. Upstate Cruisers which has over 160 members sits in your back yard. Most of our monthly meetings and event are no more than an hr or two away from you. You have been invited personally by me as well as other past presidents to join us at numerous events but yet to this date you have never graced us with your presence. Whether you know it or not you represent TLCA to our members. I cannot tell you how many times I've heard the question "Why doesn't Todd come to our events?". I can guarantee if you come you will not be disappointed.

As far as a TLCA sanction event on the east coast. I'd be more than willing to sit down with the BOD and see if this is something we could possibly do. UC is hosting GSMTR for the first time this year. Anything is possible with enough planning. But I think making it entirely a TLCA profit center is going to be hard. Maybe we could work a format out to where anyone could do an event like this and it be a win win for everyone. Something like a 90/10 split. We are trying to raise money to help save Tellico and this is our single best way of doing it. We would want maybe 50% of your profits to go toward that fund. That way we still achieve our goal and you get a national event on the east coast. If you made it to where TLCA would get 50% of the profits the club could make a donation for 40% to it's local or national cause and the club retain the remaining 10% I don't see why this couldn't work. I'm the only the chair for GSMTR next year so I would need to run this idea by the UC officers. Food for thought.

In all I'm looking forward to the next influx of new officers into TLCA. I'm hoping for a change. We shouldn't be satisfied with 25% of the local clubs encompassing TLCA. They should strive for 100% with out exclusion for those that cannot or don't want to be part of them. The new officers should work with the local clubs to help relay the need to include all forms of Toyota 4x4's. They shouldn't be happy with only 3500 members. 10,000 should be a goal.

 

[66fj40x2]

Marshall, Well said!

I wonder if the Rubithon could do that 50/40/10 split or even a 60/40 split with the 40% going to land use & trail clean up project on the west coast. That, IMHO, would be "puttin' your money where your mouth is".

Tony or Nick, What is, or was, the purpose of the requirement that all local club members be TLCA members? Just to add numbers to TLCA? I know it's not enforced, and therefore seems silly to have it on the books anyway, but it seems like the local clubs would be better off without that. I plan to renew my three local memberships but as an other vehicle make owner since that IS allowed. Let the local clubs encourage them to join TLCA, if the folks feel welcome with a local club they'll wanna join TLCA. I've spoke with a couple FJC driver's that wouldn't mind joining TAC or GCC and 2 of them apparently had read TLCA's by laws (I'm not sure I ever did) and didn't want to join TLCA and thought they couldn't join either club. Seems to me this may have driven some folks from the local clubs.

 

[Green Lantern]

FWIW, the requirement that all local club members be TLCA members comes from the original bylaws back in the 70's. The intent was to build TLCA while encouraging folks to start local clubs. The rules are there to help, not hinder. You can join as many clubs as you want. If you smile and bring a full ice chest, you can probably attend a sanctioned event without joining TLCA.

Don't get hung up on "the rules."

Y'all keep talking, wrenching, and I'll see you on the trail.
Happy Trails! N

Marshall, Well said!

I wonder if the Rubithon could do that 50/40/10 split or even a 60/40 split with the 40% going to land use & trail clean up project on the west coast. That, IMHO, would be "puttin' your money where your mouth is".

Tony or Nick, What is, or was, the purpose of the requirement that all local club members be TLCA members? Just to add numbers to TLCA? I know it's not enforced, and therefore seems silly to have it on the books anyway, but it seems like the local clubs would be better off without that. I plan to renew my three local memberships but as an other vehicle make owner since that IS allowed. Let the local clubs encourage them to join TLCA, if the folks feel welcome with a local club they'll wanna join TLCA. I've spoke with a couple FJC driver's that wouldn't mind joining TAC or GCC and 2 of them apparently had read TLCA's by laws (I'm not sure I ever did) and didn't want to join TLCA and thought they couldn't join either club. Seems to me this may have driven some folks from the local clubs.

 

[Kaderabek]

I'm going to keep this brief(ish) because I'm typing into my phone.

The last time I looked into widespread distribution of Toyota Trails, we needed to put 20,000 on newsstands to get a distribution deal. That number may have come down since then. We'd also need to be 100% 4-color. And we'd need some full time staff. In other words, we'd need big money to get on the newsstands. Is it possible? Sure. Would it help the TLCA? If it was successful, probably. Is it a risk? Absolutely. Why do you only print 4,000 catalogs, Marshall? My guess would be that it's a business decision based on your current economic realities. The same applies to TLCA. Why would the average person browsing through an airport bookstore want to buy Toyota Trails? I'd speculate that they wouldn't. We'd probably sell a few and the rest would be returned and our distribution deal would be short lived. I think we're better off focused on membership, events and other revenue streams (such as the website and associated advertising). But I just produce the magazine. If TLCA leadership wants a distribution deal, I'm not the one to stand in their way. Heck, as a contractor, I can't even vote!

As to the notion that I have been "shunning" Upstate Cruisers, that's completely ridiculous. You and others have been kind enough to invite me on your trail rides and I have been kind enough to politely decline for legitimate reasons. If your membership wants to know why I'm not on specific trails rides with you, you have that answer because each and every time I told you why I could not attend. You're right though, I am one of the faces of the TLCA and I am abundantly aware of that, which is why I'm polite enough to decline and kind enough to tell you why. I appreciate the invitation and have made certain that you know that. This notion that I'm "shunning" Upstate is just plainly untrue (and again, if you have a bone to pick with someone, probably better to discuss it face to face rather than in a public forum).

To help you understand just a bit better why I'm often unable to attend trail rides (not just yours), be aware that two weekends each month are reserved for working on Trails. The first set to work on copy received over the weekend and the next to work on copy received during the week that needs to go into design the following Monday. Then about a month later, there are two more consecutive weekends where I work on final edits and layout and then the next weekend I finalize the magazine to go to the printer on the following Monday. So there's half my weekends right there. People who know me well are aware that during these weekends, I generally can not wheel. So if your invitation fell on those weekends, I apologize but I was working for you that weekend.

That said, I do attend some events. These are usually planned a year or so in advance so I can clear my schedule and line up vacation time. It might seem odd but it's much more difficult for me to just jump in the truck and go wheeling than it is to, for example, fly to California to wheel. I need to plan things well in advance or they just don't happen and unfortunately, this doesn't always mesh with spur of the moment (week's notice, for example) trail rides. It's nothing personal, just life (mine, anyway). I haven't been to GSMTR much in recent years because it has fallen on one of the weekends I'm working on Trails. Now you all have moved the date so perhaps it'll work better. I need to take a look.

Then there's real life. Take this weekend for example, when I'd love to be at the Cruiser Crawl. Instead, I (very happily) left the house before dawn to get my son to an 8 am soccer game. We had soccer until 11 and I have a Mission Manna fundraiser from 12-3. In between I hope to get some lunch and type into my phone some more.... I'll go to church tomorrow morning at 9 am (where my children are ushering so I can't skip if I want to), I'm giving a Mission Manna presentation at 10 am, working on Trails for a couple of hours and then helping a friend move. Then it's Monday and I'll return to my regular 60 hour work week. More information than you need I'm sure but these are the sorts of things that I've politely told you when I've had to turn down your offers for trail rides. I'm not "shunning" you. I'm busy.

And now I'm going to get some lunch and get on to the next thing.

TJK

 

[Trollhole]

I understand your a busy man. I'm amazed you typed all that on your phone. JUst goes to show the involvement your willing to give to TLCA. I do commend everything you have done for them. Doing layout and editing articles for TT 6 times a year has got to be an amazing task. If you ever need any help my wife would be willing to help from time to time if you need a hand. She has her Masters in Copywriting and currently is an editor for Clemsons Publications department. Imagine that, a guy who cannot type or spell, marry someone like her.

As far as UC participation. I understand your schedule only allows for certain free times. I'm sure you would rather maximize those free times doing things that are most important to you. I'm just trying to relay the feelings of the club. I try explaining your reasons why you couldn't attend. I do understand your issues. But after 3-4 years of no showing it has begun to wear on them. Your always welcome to any events or meetings we have and will always be welcomed. Our next club meeting is in Asheville. Maybe you can come out and have a beer with me and we can sit down and talk shop.

 

[TRT2]

Tony or Nick, What is, or was, the purpose of the requirement that all local club members be TLCA members? Just to add numbers to TLCA? I know it's not enforced, and therefore seems silly to have it on the books anyway, but it seems like the local clubs would be better off without that.

Originally, the club was Land Cruisers. Thus the membership requirement (which should not be mixed up with the mission statement) is that members must own land cruisers... later changed to any Toyota with a low range as mini trucks, 4runners and more began rolling out of assembly lines.

TLCA was originally a local club, and began forming other clubs, ie Chapters. All members of the Chapter were TLCA members.

That direction has been maintained over the years. Chapters help TLCA maintain members, that is why all chapter by laws are reviewed by the BOD before becoming a chapter, to ensure the text 'will support TLCA' and 'members must join TLCA' are included.

I have promoted that TLCA does not bird dog chapters on this fact. Lets face it, folks may join a local chapter and yet have no desire to join TLCA. That is up to the local chapter to enforce at their level.

The yearly Roster confirms minimum TLCA members required to maintain chapter status (among other things).

Chapters have a direct vote on the Board. That is why the TLCA membership is required. We would not want chapters voting on TLCA issues where their membership is not comprised of TLCA members.

Same with keeping owning a Toyota with low range as a membership requirement. We would not want our memberhsip to swell to 8K with over 50% driving jeeps. Imagine what would happen when Trails came out with a jeep on the cover? Pure ugly in the Toyota ranks.

Lets also review chapters Toyota ratio as this is often confused. A chapter can have a % of its members be None Toyota owners. All Toyota owners must join TLCA. The 30% rule is for Non Toyota members. If a chapter has 25 toyota owning members, they all must join TLCA. an additional 30% of that 25 can be non Toyota such as Jeeps and Broncos and cornbinders. Often chapters confuse this into 30% of their membership does not need to join. Nope, incorrect. but again, this is for chapters to manage and TLCA does not birddawg.

PMC has Jeeper Ron. Our by laws read must own Toyota and join TLCA, except Jpr Ron. He's special.

Yes we have a member or two that no matter what are not going to join TLCA. Perhaps they got pissed for some trivial reason years ago (they moved and forgot to notify TLCA) and now have a bad taste in their mouth. So be it. We like them, and allow them to stay on but do not report them as part of our membership to TLCA. We do keep hoping that some day, they will join. Patience and persistance work best.


Why do we keep TLCA membership all Toyota? To preserve and protect the history of the land cruiser.

Its in our mission statement. Allowing other makes would dilute and erode that goal.

Why do jeeps and others want to join TLCA? Because they have nothing like.



one final thought. You are TLCA. I am TLCA. I often hear 'why does'nt TLCA do this? or what does TLCA do here? Look in the mirror and ask the same question. Together we form TLCA... It is bigger than all of us together, yet equal only to each one of us individually. It does not take a monetary donation to start a club... it takes a single member who is willing to donate their time and effort.
You cannot force another Rubithon (hosted event) anywhere, not with money or stealing an event... it takes TLCA members and chapters willing to donate their time and effort (volunteers).

sorry I got off topic but I wanted to share these thoughts.

 

[Kaderabek]

Our next club meeting is in Asheville. Maybe you can come out and have a beer with me and we can sit down and talk shop.

When and where?

TJK

 

[45Kevin]

So...how 'bout a different prospective.

I'm a member of the Rocky Mountain Land Cruiser Assoc., out of Calgary, Canada. Yup, you heard right, Canada. And we are a chapter of the TLCA and were not American (NTTAWWT).

For a couple of years now we have been re-evaluating our club requirement to be a TLCA member. Quite a few of our members are not part of the TLCA. They just don't see any benefit.

The common cry is that you get the TT. Well, after receiving TT for 7 or 8 years it is getting old. No slight at Todd, it's just that the articles are often re-runs. I know, it's member contributions that make up the mag but there are only so many different ways to do a story about suspension, or your local event. I find the same thing with the woodworker mag I used to get and with any other 4x4 mag on the stands.

Now that I have been to a few TLCA events, I look at the TT articles and hope to see friends that I have met in there, I am not often disappointed.

I am a proponent of TLCA membership, even though I live in another country. I know that part of my fees go to land use organizations that probably don't even know about the area where I like to wheel, and I will probably never take my rig over the Rubicon. But I'm OK with that.

However, other international members do. If the TLCA is interested in keeping those international members then one of the things that needs to change is the "nationalization" of the organization. There doesn't need to be a patriotic flair to the TLCA. Toyotas are international.

The TLCA has changed over the years from being a wheeling club to a car club. It's not even a vintage car club, with the longevity of the brand and the introduction of newer Toyota 4x4's. It's just a car club, like the Jaguar, or Mustang club.

So, what can I do for the TLCA? Well, I espouse the intrinsic benefits of membership. It "promotes and preserves the heritage", and one day that may include the other Toyota 4x4's. It works on land issues, not in my homeland but what happens in the good ol' US of A will eventually influence what happens here. And, I write the odd story for TT, it adds international content. I have also helped to organize a club event, River Shiver, that we opened to any TLCA member. We have been graced with the presence of a number of out of town TLCA members.

Where will our club end up at. I suspect that we will drop the requirement the be a TLCA member and leave that up to the individual. But I hope that we can continue to be a TLCA chapter.

 

[Trollhole]

When and where?

TJK

STeve is still working out details but I would think it would be the first Sat in Nov.

 

[Green Lantern]

Well said 45Kevin.
NTTAWWT?? maybe, Never Tried To Act Weird Without Tofu?

Well, there are two VERY independent Republics, one north and the other south of the US. Toyota owners from both are always welcome in the TLCA.
Mi casa, su casa.... y'all are always welcome south of the Red River in the Republic of Texas!

And FWIW, me and other elected officers have sent excess Toyota Trails to other countries that don't share a border with the US, to servicemen, and to Toyota parts departments (all at our own expense).

TLCA is for fun. Don't impose silly rules on your members. I agree with Tony Twiddy, keep TLCA in your bylaws so folks know it's part of your focus. But don't run off good people if they don't want to join TLCA. Enjoy this club!

Happy Trails! N

So...how 'bout a different prospective.

I'm a member of the Rocky Mountain Land Cruiser Assoc., out of Calgary, Canada. Yup, you heard right, Canada. And we are a chapter of the TLCA and were not American (NTTAWWT).

For a couple of years now we have been re-evaluating our club requirement to be a TLCA member. Quite a few of our members are not part of the TLCA. They just don't see any benefit.
(...edit...)

Where will our club end up at. I suspect that we will drop the requirement the be a TLCA member and leave that up to the individual. But I hope that we can continue to be a TLCA chapter.

 

[Hulk]

Yes we have a member or two that no matter what are not going to join TLCA. Perhaps they got pissed for some trivial reason years ago (they moved and forgot to notify TLCA) and now have a bad taste in their mouth. So be it. We like them, and allow them to stay on but do not report them as part of our membership to TLCA. We do keep hoping that some day, they will join.

That's pretty much our philosophy at Rising Sun as well. Most of our members are TLCA members -- by choice, not because we enforce it. Usually the holdouts are the mini truck and 4Runner guys, who feel they get little to nothing from TLCA and TT. Over the years, several of them have joined TLCA, mainly because we do enforce TLCA membership for Cruise Moab (they bitched about it, but they joined). There's a few others who don't pay TLCA membership because money is tight at the moment, which is completely understandable.

We are a TLCA chapter because we want to be, not because we need to be.

The reality is that TLCA is no longer necessary in the way that it once was. If we were a brand new Toyota-centric club, we could meet other Toyota owners across the country and participate in the overall community through ih8mud and several other online forums. We could even organize a successful event without any help from TLCA -- just look at the FJC guys.

At one time, I thought TLCA should change its name and become the Toyota 4WD Association. Maybe it's too late for that. Maybe TLCA should focus on Land Cruisers, mostly. I don't know.

I enjoy TLCA the way it is now, but I go to events and read the magazine. I just worry that TLCA is becoming less relevant. Maybe that's OK too.

 

[KOWBOY]

Great to see this here thread's still goin' Folks.

Got back from the Crawl last nite ... yet another LARGE time at a TLCA event.

Perfect reminder of what this deal's all about ... at least for me.

Here's a pic of my rig after the 650 mile drive and right before I set up camp.

 

[packman73]

Thank you for answering one of my question, and yes I have a vehicle titled at a Toyota with a 2 spd transfer case. Was hoping to make DSR, but work on the truck has come to a complete halt due to weather and long hours at work. Hope to join both clubs when the FJ is done, maybe next summer.

No one still has answered if the TLCA has a vision or mission statement, I have seen by-laws posted, but they appear that they may need to revised.
Maybe this would help Basics of Developing Mission, Vision and Values Statements
If there isn't any of these above maybe they are needed to help guide and focus the club. Just food for thought.

See ya on the trails.

Pam

Pam, sorry I'm late in getting back to answering this. One of the things that I asked on the last BOD meeting was what are our goals, is it to increase membership, add another big national TLCA event or what. I think that's a topic that will get more discussion at the next BOD meeting. Thanks for posting!

 

[woooody]

Marshall, Well said!

I wonder if the Rubithon could do that 50/40/10 split or even a 60/40 split with the 40% going to land use & trail clean up project on the west coast. That, IMHO, would be "puttin' your money where your mouth is".

Confirm with Tony, but Rubithon DOES donate to Land Use, specifically the Rubicon Trail Foundation and/or Del Albright. It's done because they are crucial to the event even happening.

TLCA has in the past helped specific needs in the Land use Arena. There was a need by the Blue Ribbon Coalition for a new computer, and if memory serves correctly, TLCA bought it. I like the idea of having specific things to point at, than just throwing money at a group. It's easier to tell membership "this is where your money went, and this is what it got done".

 

[TRT2]

It makes no sense to split Rubithon dollars. All proceeds are sent to TLCA. Let the association then decide how much it wants to allocate to land use at the TLCA yearly budget level.

and yes, as noted earlier in this thread, Rubithon supports Del Albright and FOTR because Del supports Rubithon directly by working hard to keep the Rubicon trail and our access open.

 

[Trollhole]

eeek. Just for the record I was not implying TLCA change anything that had to do with the way Rubithon was handled. Just expressing issues if TLCA wanted sponsor another event.

 

[TRT2]

no, I realize that Marshall... 66fj40 (what is his name? I never know who I'm talking with by MUD names) brought it up. The thought is valid, but as noted, better handled at the association level, IMO.

This is all good conversation. I appreciate and value the opinion of my fellow TLCA members. However, I am probably jaded with regards to Rubithon being as involved as we are.

while I do not agree with Kowboy about Rubithon, his point about budget and better Board communication is spot on correct. It is/was my responsibility and I dropped the ball.

But much like the Rubithon ceremony this year when a guy walked up after the microphone was turned off and everyone was leaving; and asked if I was going to announce the winners of the horseshoe tournament...

'Don't wait till its done to remind me.' Oh well, we'll get'er next year by golly!


what were his other two comments? I've forgotten already.

 

[66fj40x2]

It makes no sense to split Rubithon dollars. All proceeds are sent to TLCA. Let the association then decide how much it wants to allocate to land use at the TLCA yearly budget level.

and yes, as noted earlier in this thread, Rubithon supports Del Albright and FOTR because Del supports Rubithon directly by working hard to keep the Rubicon trail and our access open.

Should have said "Rubithon procedes". Marshall suggested splitting procedes from an east coast event with 40% going to land use. I'd like to see TLCA investigate that with Rubithon income.

Can anyone show what percentage of TLCA's budget goes to "Land Use"? Last I knew of was $500 to BRC and any special requests that come in like the computer etc. that Ross mentioned. Just curious more then anything and if there's an issue posting it up here that's cool too.

..... and Tony, it's Mike Costello. We've not met but spoken a few times about merchandise and N scale trains ;p.

Matt, you hit it right on in my case. Money is tight and TLCA is less relavent to me.

Maybe, and I'm sure this suggestion will nowhere as would create more work for Jenn, a lower level membership for those that don't really need or want TT but do attend events and want to wheel and hang out with other Toyota drivers. Don't know what the annual annual cost of just TT is per member with shipping etc.

 

[TRT2]

Doh. Hey Mike! Casey or Nick can provide the budgetary data you note. Please excuse me on the name, I really cannot keep track of all the MUD names and really only know who it is when they reference their name.

The nephews are coming over for T-day and I have the trains up and fully operational in anticipation. Only problem is, they don't really understand proto-typical operation, they really just want to run Bullet trains if you know what I mean.