If you search for this car on YouTube the results will be 95% fluff. This seems to be a good faith attempt at a fair review. I’m particularly curious if owners agree or disagree with some of the points he makes.
Josh’s Cars of Japan reviews the LC250
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If you search for this car on YouTube the results will be 95% fluff. This seems to be a good faith attempt at a fair review. I’m particularly curious if owners agree or disagree with some of the points he makes.
It feels like a big RAV4 Hybrid... And it gets better as he goes...
This guys presents himself as an independent, not a reviewer who likes to please the car manufacturer. In the beginning he mentioned he rented it on Turo. So it is from a private party rented out through the Turo "platform". That itself is not great, perhaps better though than a press car really pushed all the time. It also has 4127 miles at the point he showed the mpg, so it should be doing great and is basically brand new.
At the same time I do believe the quality issues will be resolved and the hybrid driving experience improved. I must say in our daughters 2022 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring I enjoy the way that vehicle is build and handles, yet driving a hybrid and getting used to how the engine revs when you move around or are in a hurry is not easy for those who have an ear for that and perhaps are engineers wondering what is all going on.
For reference I get average with our LC200 13.8 mpg, however it uses regular vs premium. So seems fuel cost are not a step change for this vehicle. I do think 16.6 mpg maybe a result of some idling making the video, so take that with a grain of salt.
At the same time I do believe the quality issues will be resolved and the hybrid driving experience improved. I must say in our daughters 2022 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring I enjoy the way that vehicle is build and handles, yet driving a hybrid and getting used to how the engine revs when you move around or are in a hurry is not easy for those who have an ear for that and perhaps are engineers wondering what is all going on.
For reference I get average with our LC200 13.8 mpg, however it uses regular vs premium. So seems fuel cost are not a step change for this vehicle. I do think 16.6 mpg maybe a result of some idling making the video, so take that with a grain of salt.
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I agree with him on the pricing and the seemingly random tech options. Neither of which were deal breakers for me. My biggest gripe here is all the nanny state driving safety features - I would get rid of them other than the adaptive cruise, which I like. On pricing, the MSRP for my 1958 was listed at $55950. I was just under $60k OTD with dealer upgrades: Nitto ridge grapplers, tint, floor mats, and some other random s***. I don’t think you need/have to pay above MSRP if youre patient. As is often the case once I drove off I was wishing I would have held out another week or two to see what the dealer would have gone down too.
Ive experienced none of his “QC” issues but only have 1500 miles so will see. Even then I think they are not really noteworthy.
He also complains about mpg while simultaneously commenting the powertrain wasn’t designed with mpg in mind…seems a little silly. I am also experiencing better mpg, still less than listed, but getting 20 mixed city/hwy. It’ll get up to 23-24 straight hwy doing 60-70mph in eco. It absolutely could use a larger tank and hope there are aftermarket options soon.
It is obvious to me he is greatly exaggerating the jerky nature of the powertrain, either way, I haven’t experienced what he describes. In fact quite the opposite, I think it’s a blast to drive.
I’d also be interested to know what mode we was driving in. In eco mode it is quick to shift into higher gears for obvious reasons, requiring downshifts if you need to get on the gas. In normal or sport mode it is much slower to upshift or go into hybrid and the power is more available. The only thing worth commenting here is the braking…I haven’t quite figured out why or when but at times the brakes are very touchy and will “grab” unexpectedly.
Finally, I too had issue with the seats, but for different reasons. They don’t give me back pain but the angle makes it feel like I was going to slide off the front. I installed Desert Does It seat jackers which raised the front of the seat - 100x better. I certainly wish this didn’t have to be an aftermarket cost but everyone is different so can’t really gripe too much here.
Ive experienced none of his “QC” issues but only have 1500 miles so will see. Even then I think they are not really noteworthy.
He also complains about mpg while simultaneously commenting the powertrain wasn’t designed with mpg in mind…seems a little silly. I am also experiencing better mpg, still less than listed, but getting 20 mixed city/hwy. It’ll get up to 23-24 straight hwy doing 60-70mph in eco. It absolutely could use a larger tank and hope there are aftermarket options soon.
It is obvious to me he is greatly exaggerating the jerky nature of the powertrain, either way, I haven’t experienced what he describes. In fact quite the opposite, I think it’s a blast to drive.
I’d also be interested to know what mode we was driving in. In eco mode it is quick to shift into higher gears for obvious reasons, requiring downshifts if you need to get on the gas. In normal or sport mode it is much slower to upshift or go into hybrid and the power is more available. The only thing worth commenting here is the braking…I haven’t quite figured out why or when but at times the brakes are very touchy and will “grab” unexpectedly.
Finally, I too had issue with the seats, but for different reasons. They don’t give me back pain but the angle makes it feel like I was going to slide off the front. I installed Desert Does It seat jackers which raised the front of the seat - 100x better. I certainly wish this didn’t have to be an aftermarket cost but everyone is different so can’t really gripe too much here.
TheLCProject
SILVER Star
Maybe your vehicle doesn't have this issue, but the two 1958's I've driven had this issue and I really think it's a safety issue, especially during braking. Actually stopping by your intended stop target is impossible due to the modulating/dynamic brake pressure required as the hybrid system hands on and off.
I think you’re not accustomed to these hybrids. I have a 3rd gen Sequoia, and have driven 2 First Edition 250’s. It can take a minute to get used to brake pressure, after a day of driving it’s not a problem.
I feel like he's kind of missing the point of the truck. The hard plastics and cloth seats are meant to appeal to the enthusiast crowd, and it's what specifically drew me to the truck... He uses anecdotes like a Toyota inventory search to say the 1958 Trim is not desirable, but a) most of those trucks were in build phase and b) Toyota front loaded production with higher spec trucks, which par for the course on new car releases... Then says he thinks the 1958 will be undesirable long term but how appealing it would be for $45k used in a couple years which would be a strong resale value of a $55k truck.
He claims to be getting 20mpg on highway in his V8 GX which I just don't buy. I came from a V8 Land Rover LR4 that would get 10mpg city, 14mpg highway (if I was lucky). I'm now seeing mid 17mpg city and 20+mpg highway (both trucks with racks and knobby tires), which are pretty significant gains for a powertrain that isn't meant to be fuel efficient. The jerkiness in the powertrain is something I haven't felt at all. The 4 banger isn't refined, kind of reminds me of the diesel power trains the rest of the world associates these trucks with. But then you have the torque fill of the e-motor balancing it out. I quite like it. It doesn't feel strained to me at all... actually on the contrary, again because of that e-motor. I was cross shopping with 4 cylinder Defender but that truck really feels strained when you put the pedal to the metal.
I could go into the rest, I am by no means a Toyota fan boy and have some critique of the LC from my ownership experience thus far, but feel like this review was just self-assurance that his pervious generation GX is a "superior" vehicle.
He claims to be getting 20mpg on highway in his V8 GX which I just don't buy. I came from a V8 Land Rover LR4 that would get 10mpg city, 14mpg highway (if I was lucky). I'm now seeing mid 17mpg city and 20+mpg highway (both trucks with racks and knobby tires), which are pretty significant gains for a powertrain that isn't meant to be fuel efficient. The jerkiness in the powertrain is something I haven't felt at all. The 4 banger isn't refined, kind of reminds me of the diesel power trains the rest of the world associates these trucks with. But then you have the torque fill of the e-motor balancing it out. I quite like it. It doesn't feel strained to me at all... actually on the contrary, again because of that e-motor. I was cross shopping with 4 cylinder Defender but that truck really feels strained when you put the pedal to the metal.
I could go into the rest, I am by no means a Toyota fan boy and have some critique of the LC from my ownership experience thus far, but feel like this review was just self-assurance that his pervious generation GX is a "superior" vehicle.
I think he was conveying what an awful value the NA Prado is while backing up his statement about this vehicle being a flagrant cash grab by Toyota.
Not to mention Toyota calling it the "New Land Cruiser" in the NA market, when the whole World knows it is a light-duty-PRADO.I think he was conveying what an awful value the NA Prado is while backing up his statement about this vehicle being a flagrant cash grab by Toyota.
Sorry, I couldn’t watch the whole video. I grew tired of his theme of $10K too high/cheap interior/it’s a Prado/the 200 is HD, etc.
I finally stopped as he rambled on about hybrids without understanding the different iForce Max/Direct 4 power trains are in fact, different. Different optimizations/combinations for the purpose. Having had a Direct 4 powertrain in an RX500h (lemon law buy back, unfortunately) I can tell you personally that was way different beast than the fuel-sipping 2.4L Hybrid/e-CVT in our RX350h and which is way different than the iForce Max I just had in a Tundra rental.
He could be right, the market will tell us if the 250’s are $10K too high. So far the market (driven by early adopters no doubt) doesn’t seem to think Toyota picked the wrong price point for a full time 4WD, body-on-Frame midsize SUV that is made in Japan and has big-block levels of torque.
I bought my 550 over a used LC200 for my specific wants. I looked at and passed on the 5G 4R (same outdated power train as my 2G Tacoma) and I also passed on a build-to-spec 2023 Bronco Wildtrak. The Bronco, while insanely capable off road for a factory vehicle, had unforgivable ultra-cheap plastic, questionable quality/durability and was plenty noisy even with the hardtop. If he didn’t like the 1958 interior I am at a loss of how he would even compare the crappy Bronco interior that is on all Bronco trims.
The market likewise will vote with their $$$. I’d love it if it was $10K lower, sure, I’ll take same/same for cheaper.
Rant over, I hope he keeps his GX (and his Camry) forever because I don’t think for his wants he could find a replacement from any manufacturer that he thinks is the right value.
I finally stopped as he rambled on about hybrids without understanding the different iForce Max/Direct 4 power trains are in fact, different. Different optimizations/combinations for the purpose. Having had a Direct 4 powertrain in an RX500h (lemon law buy back, unfortunately) I can tell you personally that was way different beast than the fuel-sipping 2.4L Hybrid/e-CVT in our RX350h and which is way different than the iForce Max I just had in a Tundra rental.
He could be right, the market will tell us if the 250’s are $10K too high. So far the market (driven by early adopters no doubt) doesn’t seem to think Toyota picked the wrong price point for a full time 4WD, body-on-Frame midsize SUV that is made in Japan and has big-block levels of torque.
I bought my 550 over a used LC200 for my specific wants. I looked at and passed on the 5G 4R (same outdated power train as my 2G Tacoma) and I also passed on a build-to-spec 2023 Bronco Wildtrak. The Bronco, while insanely capable off road for a factory vehicle, had unforgivable ultra-cheap plastic, questionable quality/durability and was plenty noisy even with the hardtop. If he didn’t like the 1958 interior I am at a loss of how he would even compare the crappy Bronco interior that is on all Bronco trims.
The market likewise will vote with their $$$. I’d love it if it was $10K lower, sure, I’ll take same/same for cheaper.
Rant over, I hope he keeps his GX (and his Camry) forever because I don’t think for his wants he could find a replacement from any manufacturer that he thinks is the right value.
+1 comment. An AWD Highlander/Grand Highlander is a far better SUV choice for 90% of households over any BoF 250/4R or other non-unibody SUV. Body-on-Frame and full-time 4WD (over AWD) come at a cost (purchase price, running cost, weight @ 5,000lb+, and worse NVH). He really should have focused on comparing to a used GX460 or a new Highlander.
One shaken Prado owner…
I think the 250 is fine for what it is (LC Prado), however as a Land Cruiser replacement an utter disappointment.
The market definitely told Toyota the 200's price was too high. So here we are.
Very true. In the case of the GX460 specifically, the RX350 (with the 2GR) is such a better buy.
It even falls short as a Prado but that issue has been beaten to death and then kicked in the butt.
For what it's worth, I get 20mpg on the highway in my GX460. Granted, as soon as I decide I want to cruise at a higher speed than 65mph, that drops a bit, but it is possible.
Whether the hard plastics are an intentional choice to appeal to the enthusiast crowd or an inexcusable cost-cutting measure depends on your perspective. The fact of the matter is you are compensating for the added drivetrain complexity in the vehicle somehow---a higher sticker price, cost-cutting decisions on the interior/exterior/rest of platform, etc. In order to use the engines that Toyota put in these vehicles and add in safety features to reach government-mandated emissions and safety targets, they have to make cuts elsewhere in order to reach the desired sticker price. A lot of people see the "enthusiast crowd appeal" argument as opportunistic marketing to cover that plain truth---enthusiasts loved slow and mechanically simpler Toyotas too, but Toyota can't build what enthusiasts exactly want anymore.
The way I perceived his video was less about him trying to believe his vehicle was "superior" and more about lamenting the different tradeoffs that were made compared to the previous generation. Some people (and the government regulations) will prioritize fuel economy, hybrid drivetrains, acceleration, technology, and safety features. Other people prioritize reliability, material choices, simplicity, vehicle longevity, and other design decisions that they believe contribute to a more "refined" emotional quality in a vehicle. The people in the latter category were the ones traditionally catered to by high end Toyota and Lexus models, even in an era where other automakers were abandoning that quality. Some of these people believe that Toyota is departing from or abandoning this ethos, and feel alienated in their current lineup of vehicles. Although it's not too late to pick an older model, it soon will be for those who prefer a vehicle with a newer manufacturing date to buying a 15-20 year old car.
Maybe that's not how you interpreted his video, and he was really just giving off a false sense of superiority or pretentiousness, but I think that underlying message is something that others in the second group I mentioned may resonate with.
I feel the same way. What I was hearing before the new Prado 250 was enthusiasts thought the 200 was too expensive in the US because Toyota would only sell the full luxury version of it. Meanwhile, the rest of the world gets bare bones, stripped down 200s (with the same tank-like feel) much cheaper and that you can buy out of the showroom and go straight offroad without feeling depressed for denting and scratching a $90k vehicle.
Enters Toyota and not only continues to not deliver the bare bones replacement of the 200, i.e. the 300, but replaces the 200 entirely with a "New Land Cruiser", which is in fact a Prado. Oh no, but wait, here is a stripped-down bare bones version of the "New Land Cruiser" like you asked for enthusiasts!
Nooo! you completely missed the point Toyota.
I know the soccer moms that were driving GXs460s all over town and hated the heafty 200 tank, will love the boxy and cute "New Land Cruiser" that is easier to drive around to the mall/kids practice, and Toyota is already cashing in big bucks for it by charging almost 200 prices. From the enthusiast perspective it is a complete let down though.
