Moby
GOLD Star
Builds Isuzu 4HE1TC into FJ62
- Thread starter astr
- Start date
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Exactly. Editted to A440.
Thanks for the pics and measurements! Some upcoming life changes may necessitate doing this swap sooner rather than later, to the point that I am actively looking for a wrecked NPR and planning out this build. Any tips on where to grab one? I've been watching craigslist but not sure where else to look?
Also a couple other thoughts... (these may have been answered previously but I haven't read through this thread in quite a while).
- What is the situation with the oil pan? If I recall, you were going to SOA... do you think the pan can be made to fit with either no lift or a minimal lift?
- How easy is it to separate the engine harness to the main harness? How many connectors go from the engine harness into the main dash/interior harness? That point is going to be a nice place to adapt it into the Toyota harness.
Some more stuff... but my mind is racing to0 much right now to remember them!
-Phil
Also a couple other thoughts... (these may have been answered previously but I haven't read through this thread in quite a while).
- What is the situation with the oil pan? If I recall, you were going to SOA... do you think the pan can be made to fit with either no lift or a minimal lift?
- How easy is it to separate the engine harness to the main harness? How many connectors go from the engine harness into the main dash/interior harness? That point is going to be a nice place to adapt it into the Toyota harness.
Some more stuff... but my mind is racing to0 much right now to remember them!
-Phil
http://www.copart.com
I have not used this site but it has all sorts of totaled trucks or what ever you want.
I have not used this site but it has all sorts of totaled trucks or what ever you want.
Look around for businesses that run these type of trucks. We have one that supplies tires and they have quite a large fleet. When the get tired of fixing things, usually 10 or so years, they sell them off quite cheap and most of the units I've found have just been serviced at some level. IE, new radiator, rebuilt engine, rebuilt tranny....something always seems like it was just replaced.
Chris
Chris
- Thread starter
- #265
Quick Look at the A442F
I finally found a chunk of time to actually start tearing down the donor AW450 that will be used to merge with the A440F output shaft to form the hybrid transmission. This AW450, I believe, is brand new and has been only used to train “Future GM Technicians of America” on the repair of these transmissions so it is a real pleasure working on a totally clean unit. I hope I won’t find any surprises left behind by the eager students. A write up on the tear down and reassembly is in the works.
I had a chance to pick up an A442F transmission and T-case that came out of a ’94 FZJ80. I couldn’t resist the opportunity to check out the compatibility with the AW450. As expected, the A442F is a lot closer to the AW450 than is the A440F. The 1st photo compares the back ends of the three bell housings. The A442F bell housing matches the AW450 closer than the A440F because it incorporates the two alignment pins.
The AW450 torque converter fits the A442F perfectly (Photo 2). Photo 3 shows the AW450 torque converter and bell housing mated to the A442F – no problems.
I finally found a chunk of time to actually start tearing down the donor AW450 that will be used to merge with the A440F output shaft to form the hybrid transmission. This AW450, I believe, is brand new and has been only used to train “Future GM Technicians of America” on the repair of these transmissions so it is a real pleasure working on a totally clean unit. I hope I won’t find any surprises left behind by the eager students. A write up on the tear down and reassembly is in the works.
I had a chance to pick up an A442F transmission and T-case that came out of a ’94 FZJ80. I couldn’t resist the opportunity to check out the compatibility with the AW450. As expected, the A442F is a lot closer to the AW450 than is the A440F. The 1st photo compares the back ends of the three bell housings. The A442F bell housing matches the AW450 closer than the A440F because it incorporates the two alignment pins.
The AW450 torque converter fits the A442F perfectly (Photo 2). Photo 3 shows the AW450 torque converter and bell housing mated to the A442F – no problems.
- Thread starter
- #266
More A442F Comparison
Unlike the A440F, which has the shift lever and neutral lockout switch on opposite sides to the AW450, the shift levers and the switches are on the same sided of both the AW450 and A442F. Being that both the AW450 and the A442F are electronic transmissions, they both have a speed sensor located on the T-case adapter and the sensors are physically interchangeable. Photo 1 shows the AW450 sensor installed in the A442F T-case adapter.
Photo 2 shows both sensors side by side. Other than the connection, they appear identical. Adding this sensor to the A440F T-case adapter was a significant hassle.
I’ve asked this question before but never received a definitive answer – will a split case bolt to an A442F. Photo 3 says DEFINITELY NOT! In addition to the output shaft being totally different, the bolt pattern isn’t even close. I suspect that you could do it but the process would be as involved as what I am going through to mount the split case on the AW450.
Unlike the A440F, which has the shift lever and neutral lockout switch on opposite sides to the AW450, the shift levers and the switches are on the same sided of both the AW450 and A442F. Being that both the AW450 and the A442F are electronic transmissions, they both have a speed sensor located on the T-case adapter and the sensors are physically interchangeable. Photo 1 shows the AW450 sensor installed in the A442F T-case adapter.
Photo 2 shows both sensors side by side. Other than the connection, they appear identical. Adding this sensor to the A440F T-case adapter was a significant hassle.
I’ve asked this question before but never received a definitive answer – will a split case bolt to an A442F. Photo 3 says DEFINITELY NOT! In addition to the output shaft being totally different, the bolt pattern isn’t even close. I suspect that you could do it but the process would be as involved as what I am going through to mount the split case on the AW450.
Well Andy, sorry the A442 won't work out for you, but it looks like it might for me, as I'm doing this on an 80 series. I'm gonna compare the ratios and see if I can make the A442 work for the 4HE1, although I suppose I would need to install a diesel gearset for the front and rear to make the truck street drivable. I didn't have any luck picking up an A442 at the junkyard - I guess all the C4C cars have been picked clean and moved out of the yards
Thanks for your exploratory work on this!
-Phil
So will the 442 t case fit in your situation? If so, wouldn't it be easier to swap your rear to a centered diff?
Tripper
Tripper
The 80's rear diff is not centered. It is off to the PS like the 60, just not quite as far. Swapping rear ends wouldn't be very easy either, as the 80 is coils and the 60 is springs. (EDIT - in reading your signature, I'm sure you know all this!)
I think his best bet is going to be the hybrid AW450 with A440/A442 output shaft and spacer that he created. However, for me, the A442 makes sense because I can utilize my stock tcase without having to mill a spacer. The only question is whether or not the A442 will hold up to the 4HE1.
-Phil
I was thinking that 93 and up were centered rear diff. If my 97 is offset, it isn't by much, not like the 40's and 60's. (see below as I'm a dumbass)
As far as suspension goes for the rear, a coil conversion wouldn't be too much trouble or even easier, move the axle to leaf springs. I guess I find it easier to do that than make custom adapters.
Tripper
As far as suspension goes for the rear, a coil conversion wouldn't be too much trouble or even easier, move the axle to leaf springs. I guess I find it easier to do that than make custom adapters.
Tripper
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Here's a comparo of the gear ratios of the transmissions.
A440F:
- 1st - 2.950
- 2nd - 1.530
- 3rd - 1.000
- 4th (OD) - 0.717
- Reverse - 2.678
A442 (thanks to Beno):
- 1st Gear: 2.950
- 2nd Gear: 1.530
- 3rd Gear: 1.00
- OD: .765
- Reverse: 2.678
- Stall Torque Ratio: 2.0:1
AW450:
- 1st: 3.02
- 2nd: 1.55
- 3rd: 1.00
- O/D: 0.70
- Reverse: ???
So this all means that the A442 is actually going to help any 80 owners in the swap to a diesel because of the slightly higher gears. The only question now is whether or not it will stand up to the torque of the 4HE1. Anyone have any comments as to that?
PS - sorry for all the thread jacking here Andy, I'm just hoping you find the gathering of this info somewhat helpful
A440F:
- 1st - 2.950
- 2nd - 1.530
- 3rd - 1.000
- 4th (OD) - 0.717
- Reverse - 2.678
A442 (thanks to Beno):
- 1st Gear: 2.950
- 2nd Gear: 1.530
- 3rd Gear: 1.00
- OD: .765
- Reverse: 2.678
- Stall Torque Ratio: 2.0:1
AW450:
- 1st: 3.02
- 2nd: 1.55
- 3rd: 1.00
- O/D: 0.70
- Reverse: ???
So this all means that the A442 is actually going to help any 80 owners in the swap to a diesel because of the slightly higher gears. The only question now is whether or not it will stand up to the torque of the 4HE1. Anyone have any comments as to that?
PS - sorry for all the thread jacking here Andy, I'm just hoping you find the gathering of this info somewhat helpful
- Thread starter
- #272
I am puzzled by the offset issue also. I posted the following on the 80 forum but never got a definitive answer:
On a FJ62, the rear axle pinion is offset about 8" to the right which corresponds to the 8" offset of the output of the T-case. The centerline of the engine/tranny is aligned with the center of the truck.
I measured a FZJ80 FF rear axle and the pinion is only offset about 4.5" to the right but the output of a HF2AV T-case is offset about 7" to the right. This would suggest that the centerline on the engine/transmission on a FZJ80 is offset to the left about 2.5". Is this true or am I missing something?
- Thread starter
- #273
... The only question now is whether or not it will stand up to the torque of the 4HE1. Anyone have any comments as to that?
PS - sorry for all the thread jacking here Andy, I'm just hoping you find the gathering of this info somewhat helpful
The internal gears and clutch packs are almost identical between the AW450 and the A442F, especially the latter A442F. I don't think there would be a strength problem with using the A442F behind the 4HE1TC. My concern would be with how well the shifting program of the A442F would work with the torque characteristics of the 4HE1.
Edit: Look at Post #204. It addresses the "heavy duty" differences between the different transmissions.
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Ok, I had to crawl under my 97 and check things out. I was definitely wrong, the rear is offset. I didn't take any measurements however it is also apparent that the tcase rear is offset further and the drive shaft actually angles towards the drivers side to accomidate the rear as Astr mentioned.
I guess I don't spend enough time under that monster!
Tripper
I guess I don't spend enough time under that monster!
Tripper
If the A442F and the AW450 share the same sensors and actuators, I would think it would be pretty easy to use the aw450 ECU and keep the 4HE1TC shift points.
- Thread starter
- #276
Similar but not the same. The A442F uses a throttle valve cable that physically goes from the throttle body to the transmission to get throttle position information where as the AW450 has an electronic throttle position sensor that connect directly to the ECU.
Somewhere earlier in this thread, there is a comparison of the two ECU's and IIRC, they are different with different connectors.
You might have better luck using an ECU from a diesel powered Land Cruiser as it probably would be better match to the 4HE1's characteristics.
There is one more possibility which I haven't explored that might be the simplest: Swap in an AW450 valve body and ECU into the A442F. It is quite possible that they might be interchangeable.
This thread is producing so much good information and potential... now if I can just get my hands on that parts truck, I'll be able to help with testing as well.
-Phil
-Phil
Reprogram
Is it possible to reprogram the shift patterns? There are some very smart people here that might know how to do it.
Is it possible to reprogram the shift patterns? There are some very smart people here that might know how to do it.
- Thread starter
- #279
Any volunteers?
Hey Andy - did you get a tcase with that A442F? If you did, wondering if you wouldn't mind attempting to mate up the TC from the A442 to the back of the AW450 (without the spacer)? I have a feeling they might be a direct fit...
-Phil
-Phil
