This looks very promising!! Thanks for keeping us posted.
GG
GG
Builds Isuzu 4HE1TC into FJ62 (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter astr
- Start date
This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.
Rebuild your "used" AW450 with the known good parts from the "new" unit. Swapping over parts that the students couldn't have messed up, like the clutches.
Just a thought...
-Phil
Great thread, great pix and great project.... doesn't get any better... 
Post 96... pic 1... shaft ID seems to be wrong...
Post 96... pic 1... shaft ID seems to be wrong...
Last edited:
I'm glad that you have carried on this project, excellent work! I have been absent from the board for quite a while but was very excited at the idea long ago and this is just fantastic. subscribing
- Thread starter
- #105
Starting from the front (the end with the big flange) the diameters of 1st sections that fits through the rearmost bearings of the transmission cases are the same. The next sections with the fine splines that engage the park gears are the same diameters and same spline, different length of spline but still the same diameter and spline. This portion of the shaft, as well as the flange end, is all that is required to be the same to swap them. The front bearing sections and the park gear spline sections are of different length between the two shafts to accomodate the different park gear arrangements: The AW450 has just a simple park gear whereas the A440F has a park gear/governor combo. The combo is longer that the simple gear. This difference will require some "adjusting" to compensate for the difference.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #106
Plan B – Overcoming the Differences
Building a hybrid transmission based on the AW450 core is more involved than building one based on the A440F core which basically amounted to replacing the AW450’s bell housing and torque converter with those off the AW450. This additional complexity is the result of three factors:
¨ Both transmissions must be completely disassembled to gain access to the output shaft which is the key element that needs to be swapped. On the plus side, this gives you the opportunity to overhaul the transmission with little additional effort. The down side is additional cost and a lot of opportunity to screw up. At the minimum, you will have to purchase a gasket and seal package for around $100. If you choose to replace all wear components, a full kit (Master Kit) will run around $350. Additionally, there are many components that make up these transmissions. Many of them look alike. The order that they are assembled is critical. You absolutely need the FSM for this process.
¨ The controls of the two transmissions are different: the A440F is a hydraulically-controlled transmission whereas the AW450 is electronically controlled. Externally, to use the AW450 core, you will have to install the TCM and the associated wiring. Internally, you will have to address the differences primarily at the very back of the transmission where the park pawl and gear are located. Personally, I feel that the advantages offered by the electronically-shifted transmission justify the additional effort.
¨ Differences due to the actual application (Isuzu cab forward truck vs. LC). One thing I noticed that is different between the two transmissions is that, while the two park lock systems are very similar, the plunger that operates the park pawl on the AW450 is larger in diameter than the one on the A440F. This problem can probably be solved ether by swapping the plungers or swapping the guides that they fit into. Also different on the two transmissions is what side the shift lever/cable attaches to. The AW450 is shifted by a cable that is attached to the shift shaft on the right side whereas the A440F is shifted by a rod that attaches to the shift shaft on the left side of the transmission. Fortunately, the shift shafts pass all the way through the transmission cases and are located in the same place on both transmissions. This issue can probably be solved by either swapping shift shafts or fabricating a custom shift shaft.
More photos: The 1st is of the gasket/seal kit for the AW450. Total count is 76 pieces in the kit, 50 O-rings, 13 gaskets, and 13 steel and rubber shaft seals. Fortunately, the O-rings are packaged and labeled as which subassembly they fit.
Because the A440F is a hydraulically-controlled transmission, it has a governor (in my opinion, a misnomer, it actually is an rpm sensor) located on the output shaft. This governor is an integral part of the parking lock gear. On the AW450, a magnetic sensor, integrated with the speedometer drive is used to measure rpm so the governor is eliminated. A simple toothed parking lock gear replaces the A440F’s parking gear/governor combo. In the hybrid transmission, you could just use the AW450’s parking gear; however, it is physically shorter than the A440F’s parking gear/governor combo, so you would have to add a spacer to position the parking gear correctly on the output shaft. Another alternative would be to use the A440F’s park gear/governor combo in the hybrid transmission. The governor part wouldn’t serve any function other than providing the extra length necessary to position the parking gear properly. To do so, you would have to solve an interference problem between the AW450’s case and part of the governor. You could eliminate this interference either by grinding away a small lip that exists just behind the rear-most transmission case bearing or, on a lathe, turning down the front portion of the governor so that it would pass through the lip.
The 2nd photo compares the parking gear of the AW450 with the parking gear/governor combo of the A440F. The final photo shows the lip inside of the rear of the AW450 case that will interfere with the front part of the parking gear/governor combo.
I think I’ll take the conservative approach (reversible & non-destructive), and make a spacer so that I can use the AW450’s park gear on the A440F’s output shaft.
Building a hybrid transmission based on the AW450 core is more involved than building one based on the A440F core which basically amounted to replacing the AW450’s bell housing and torque converter with those off the AW450. This additional complexity is the result of three factors:
¨ Both transmissions must be completely disassembled to gain access to the output shaft which is the key element that needs to be swapped. On the plus side, this gives you the opportunity to overhaul the transmission with little additional effort. The down side is additional cost and a lot of opportunity to screw up. At the minimum, you will have to purchase a gasket and seal package for around $100. If you choose to replace all wear components, a full kit (Master Kit) will run around $350. Additionally, there are many components that make up these transmissions. Many of them look alike. The order that they are assembled is critical. You absolutely need the FSM for this process.
¨ The controls of the two transmissions are different: the A440F is a hydraulically-controlled transmission whereas the AW450 is electronically controlled. Externally, to use the AW450 core, you will have to install the TCM and the associated wiring. Internally, you will have to address the differences primarily at the very back of the transmission where the park pawl and gear are located. Personally, I feel that the advantages offered by the electronically-shifted transmission justify the additional effort.
¨ Differences due to the actual application (Isuzu cab forward truck vs. LC). One thing I noticed that is different between the two transmissions is that, while the two park lock systems are very similar, the plunger that operates the park pawl on the AW450 is larger in diameter than the one on the A440F. This problem can probably be solved ether by swapping the plungers or swapping the guides that they fit into. Also different on the two transmissions is what side the shift lever/cable attaches to. The AW450 is shifted by a cable that is attached to the shift shaft on the right side whereas the A440F is shifted by a rod that attaches to the shift shaft on the left side of the transmission. Fortunately, the shift shafts pass all the way through the transmission cases and are located in the same place on both transmissions. This issue can probably be solved by either swapping shift shafts or fabricating a custom shift shaft.
More photos: The 1st is of the gasket/seal kit for the AW450. Total count is 76 pieces in the kit, 50 O-rings, 13 gaskets, and 13 steel and rubber shaft seals. Fortunately, the O-rings are packaged and labeled as which subassembly they fit.
Because the A440F is a hydraulically-controlled transmission, it has a governor (in my opinion, a misnomer, it actually is an rpm sensor) located on the output shaft. This governor is an integral part of the parking lock gear. On the AW450, a magnetic sensor, integrated with the speedometer drive is used to measure rpm so the governor is eliminated. A simple toothed parking lock gear replaces the A440F’s parking gear/governor combo. In the hybrid transmission, you could just use the AW450’s parking gear; however, it is physically shorter than the A440F’s parking gear/governor combo, so you would have to add a spacer to position the parking gear correctly on the output shaft. Another alternative would be to use the A440F’s park gear/governor combo in the hybrid transmission. The governor part wouldn’t serve any function other than providing the extra length necessary to position the parking gear properly. To do so, you would have to solve an interference problem between the AW450’s case and part of the governor. You could eliminate this interference either by grinding away a small lip that exists just behind the rear-most transmission case bearing or, on a lathe, turning down the front portion of the governor so that it would pass through the lip.
The 2nd photo compares the parking gear of the AW450 with the parking gear/governor combo of the A440F. The final photo shows the lip inside of the rear of the AW450 case that will interfere with the front part of the parking gear/governor combo.
I think I’ll take the conservative approach (reversible & non-destructive), and make a spacer so that I can use the AW450’s park gear on the A440F’s output shaft.
Amazing write up!
I've made the executive decision that this will be my next project for my 80 series once I finish my T5 Volvo swap in my 740 wagon. Wondering if the izusudieselswapper.com unit would work on the 4HE1TC? I'm assuming he is going to make a unit for the newer engine (if he doesn't already), so I could run an H55 behind it similar to FL Cruiser's swap..
-Phil
I've made the executive decision that this will be my next project for my 80 series once I finish my T5 Volvo swap in my 740 wagon. Wondering if the izusudieselswapper.com unit would work on the 4HE1TC? I'm assuming he is going to make a unit for the newer engine (if he doesn't already), so I could run an H55 behind it similar to FL Cruiser's swap..
-Phil
- Thread starter
- #108
No, isuzudieselswapper's unit works behind the 4BD1/2 series which is totally different on the back end from the 4HE1TC. When I spoke to him about a year ago, he had a 4HE1 but sold it. At that time, he had no plans to make an adapter for the 4HE1. In fact, he was the one who made me aware of the differences between the 4HE1 and the 4BD1/2.
Keep in mind that, even if my transmission project is successful, there is still the starter location issue that could be the biggest hurdle to overcome.
- Thread starter
- #109
Good idea. I'll have to see how the insided of the "new" transmission look. Although, I sure would like to use that new and shiny transmission case. LOL.
Well I believe the tunnel of the 80 and 60 are going to be similar in shape since the early 80's had the same driveline as the 62, so most of what you find out should apply to my truck. I'm thinking 1" body lift plus a big hammer should make it work.
Another idea is possibly clocking the engine a couple degrees? I know in my Volvos the 4 cyl is more like a slant 4 and sits at like 20 degrees off center. If the sump is checked it shouldn't be a huge concern for oil delivery - possibly massaging the oil pickup to account for the change in angle. Although then you have to worry about MC clearance, but it really depends on what you find with your test fit.
-Phil
Sorry. What I mean is in pix 1 the shorter shaft is labeled as the a440 with the long shaft being labeled a450. But in subsequent pix, a440 is labeled as the long shaft. ie the identification numbers that you have added seem to change between pix. I'm not trying to be critical of your work, it is great, just seems like a possible error to me...
- Thread starter
- #112
You are absolutely right - my mistake. Thanks for pointing it out. The short shaft is from the AW450, the long one is from the A440F. It has been corrected.
Quick update - I did get the spacer made that will position the park gear from the AW450 transmission correctly on the A440F's shaft. So far, this is the only custom piece required.
Great work so far. Continuing to think about this for my 80 series. Does anyone know if the A442F (what came in the 93+ 80 series) could be disassembled and the tailshaft put into the AW450 as well? I'm assuming the A440F and A442F are relatively the same, the main difference being that the A442F is electronically controlled. Any input on this would be awesome!
-Phil
-Phil
Falco80
Burning dinosaur bones...
This is very interesting and will be a stout 60 series when you've finished. Cheers for outlining the technical details for us all. Good luck with it, i hope it all comes together nicely.
Ya gotta love turbo-diesel power and economy!
Ya gotta love turbo-diesel power and economy!
- Thread starter
- #115
I don't know anything about the A442F other than it came out later than the A440F. Since it is newer and electronically-controlled (like the AW450) it may be a closer cousin to the AW450 than is the A440F.
- Thread starter
- #116
First Significant Glitch
To make certain that I hadn’t overlooked anything, I decided to test assemble the critical parts of the proposed combination. Starting with the AW450 case, I installed the rearmost portion of the AW450’s gear train, substituting the A440F’s output shaft. I next installed my spacer followed by the AW450 park gear. Next came the T-case adapter with the A440F’s park pawl assembly. For some reason, the park gear hit the adapter so I left the park gear out temporarily and continued with the front half of the split t-case housing. I then installed the T-case input gear and the idler gear. The gears did not line up correctly as can be seen from the photo. It looks like the output shaft is located about 1/3” further back in the AW450 case resulting in the gap that is seen in the photo. This also explains the interference between the park gear and the T-case adapter. I think that this problem can be rectified by installing a proper thickness spacer between the back of the transmission housing and the T-case adapter. Time to make some accurate measurements!
To make certain that I hadn’t overlooked anything, I decided to test assemble the critical parts of the proposed combination. Starting with the AW450 case, I installed the rearmost portion of the AW450’s gear train, substituting the A440F’s output shaft. I next installed my spacer followed by the AW450 park gear. Next came the T-case adapter with the A440F’s park pawl assembly. For some reason, the park gear hit the adapter so I left the park gear out temporarily and continued with the front half of the split t-case housing. I then installed the T-case input gear and the idler gear. The gears did not line up correctly as can be seen from the photo. It looks like the output shaft is located about 1/3” further back in the AW450 case resulting in the gap that is seen in the photo. This also explains the interference between the park gear and the T-case adapter. I think that this problem can be rectified by installing a proper thickness spacer between the back of the transmission housing and the T-case adapter. Time to make some accurate measurements!
Last edited:
Here's a question or two for diesel gurus(shameless hijack as well):
Was the A442f used behind toyota diesels in any configuration?
If so, does that configuration have a separate tranny ECU like my 93 FJZ80?
If that is true, would plugging that ECU into my A442F give me proper shift points and lockup for use behind the 4HE1TC?
If all of the above is true, this might be the easiest diesel conversion available for an 80 series, assuming ASTR figgers out the starter issue. I like the idea of using the AW450 tranny, but swapping that output shaft would be way too technical for me.
Was the A442f used behind toyota diesels in any configuration?
If so, does that configuration have a separate tranny ECU like my 93 FJZ80?
If that is true, would plugging that ECU into my A442F give me proper shift points and lockup for use behind the 4HE1TC?
If all of the above is true, this might be the easiest diesel conversion available for an 80 series, assuming ASTR figgers out the starter issue. I like the idea of using the AW450 tranny, but swapping that output shaft would be way too technical for me.
- Thread starter
- #119
That would be really great if you could plug the AW450 ECU into your A442F truck. This weekend, I'll pull the ECU from the Isuzu, photograph it and post the pics. You can tell us if the ecu look similar and if the connectors match.
I hadn't even considered that the AW450 ecu could be compatible with the A442. THAT would be toooo simple. Post up the pictures and I'll check it out. What does the AW450 use for speed and throttle position?
