Make a 1 or 2 layer heat sheild if you're worried. 2" is plenty of space to fit that in. Lagging the housing and downpipe will help too.
The surface of the exhaust turbine could reach 600C if there was no cooling air going past.
isuzu 4BD1T swap?! (1 Viewer)
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Make a 1 or 2 layer heat sheild if you're worried. 2" is plenty of space to fit that in. Lagging the housing and downpipe will help too.
The surface of the exhaust turbine could reach 600C if there was no cooling air going past.
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yes fletcher the turbo spacing is more important on the exhaust turbine side that is very hot. avoid getting close to alternator, or any rubber lines, silicone lines. the compressor is always receiving cool air, and so is not nearly as hot. i have a laser temp gage, I will compare the turbine to compressor temp.
havent noticed any heat probs with my brakes.
Thanks guys, I think I'm going to go with the heat shield idea.
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isuzu diesel in 88tlc - turbo performance report
had a chance to take the fj62 out this last weekend, elk hunting in the Uinta mountains. there are many Forest Service roads to navigate if you want to hunt up high. there were also a few good double track trails that required 4 wheel low, in low, that we drove around on the landcruiser - with the diesel, advance adapters, lifted OME springs and shocks, 33 inch tires, rebuilt birfields, new brake lines, etc, all did fabulous. it was in its element.
with all this type of FR driving, I still managed to get 24 mpg. I think on a road trip, I will get even better, letting it in OD, lock up, and be efficient. hoping for 26-28 mpg, i may be heading to Fruita CO this weekend for another road trip.
there were also some small details that popped up - rattles, a small exhaust leak (but even a small diesel leak stinks), wires that rattled loose (i will never use butt connectors again, its solid state solder from now on), so it was a little more shop time post trip for some quick fixes.
I also got my tachometer calibrated using a RPM sensor from harbor freight. this cheap device seemed pretty consistent and accurate, and so then ripped the dash out, the tach out, the back off, and recalibrated.
some stats, just for dougal.
at 62mph (100 kmh) highway speeds flat and level, wind? this speed is the low end of efficiency it seems for OD, it likes to run a little faster with the OD tall gearing, and the 33 inch tires. slightly overgeared but now the 4bd1t can handle a little lugging no problem.
1800 rpm
900 F egt
7-8 psi of boost.
up 6% grades, shift down to 3rd gear, and still maintain 60mph! i can not tell you guys how great that is!
65 mph
2900 rpm
1150 F egt (max I have seen is 1200 F) awesome! more boost, more air, cooler egt.
15-17 psi of boost
I am not running the radiator fan. it maintains a good engine temp on the open road, only time I manually turn on the fan is going up steep Forest roads, in 3rd, or 2nd. other wise it runs cool.
The new turbo, as many have described, is the heart of good performance, good efficiency, cool running engine. If I could suggest any single mod to the 4bd1t, it would be to make sure you have a great turbo with quick response fast spooling, and capable of 15 psi of boost minimum.
had a chance to take the fj62 out this last weekend, elk hunting in the Uinta mountains. there are many Forest Service roads to navigate if you want to hunt up high. there were also a few good double track trails that required 4 wheel low, in low, that we drove around on the landcruiser - with the diesel, advance adapters, lifted OME springs and shocks, 33 inch tires, rebuilt birfields, new brake lines, etc, all did fabulous. it was in its element.
with all this type of FR driving, I still managed to get 24 mpg. I think on a road trip, I will get even better, letting it in OD, lock up, and be efficient. hoping for 26-28 mpg, i may be heading to Fruita CO this weekend for another road trip.
there were also some small details that popped up - rattles, a small exhaust leak (but even a small diesel leak stinks), wires that rattled loose (i will never use butt connectors again, its solid state solder from now on), so it was a little more shop time post trip for some quick fixes.
I also got my tachometer calibrated using a RPM sensor from harbor freight. this cheap device seemed pretty consistent and accurate, and so then ripped the dash out, the tach out, the back off, and recalibrated.
some stats, just for dougal.
at 62mph (100 kmh) highway speeds flat and level, wind? this speed is the low end of efficiency it seems for OD, it likes to run a little faster with the OD tall gearing, and the 33 inch tires. slightly overgeared but now the 4bd1t can handle a little lugging no problem.
1800 rpm
900 F egt
7-8 psi of boost.
up 6% grades, shift down to 3rd gear, and still maintain 60mph! i can not tell you guys how great that is!
65 mph
2900 rpm
1150 F egt (max I have seen is 1200 F) awesome! more boost, more air, cooler egt.
15-17 psi of boost
I am not running the radiator fan. it maintains a good engine temp on the open road, only time I manually turn on the fan is going up steep Forest roads, in 3rd, or 2nd. other wise it runs cool.
The new turbo, as many have described, is the heart of good performance, good efficiency, cool running engine. If I could suggest any single mod to the 4bd1t, it would be to make sure you have a great turbo with quick response fast spooling, and capable of 15 psi of boost minimum.
Thanks for sharing those, looks like your turbo investment has really paid off.
To pull 2.3t up a 6% grade at 60mph means you've got 60kw at the wheels.
Your flat road figures are very close to mine. I run
2000rpm
8-9psi boost
800F EGT's
My cooler EGT's are the result of being a little lower geared (2000rpm vs 1800) and I've probably got a slightly more aerodynamic vehicle with smaller tyres.
so... 88TLC guy... what's the final consensus? I mean, are you happy with the power? noise level? MPG? would you do the swap again? How does it compare in get-up-and-go to the 3FE?
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4bd1t turbo diesel better than 3fe?
short answer is yes. for sure. more power, and fuel economy that is close to double the 3fe.
rattles and vibration- these have been minimized with time and revisions - ASTR showed up in park city and we drove the land cruiser before turbo swap. it still had a low idle rattle, and a high speed vibration. When doing the turbo and inspecting, I noticed the ujoint bolts loose. so this was causing the high speed vibes, and an easy fix. i also recently increased rpms to about 900 idle, and 675 rpm when in drive (auto trans). the turbo has helped idle with positive pressure at idle rpms. I also feel like at cruise it now has more power and runs more smoothly, on a good tarmac surface it is really nice, my mother even approved. I found intake hitting a body heat shield, and air intake pipes touching and vibrating, and corrected these small but annoying issues.
Recommedations - i would be sure to use an angled rubber engine mount, like the isuzu stock style would be my next choice. there are others out there but I like this style over a vertical pattern. I would somehow try to confirm the flywheel, spacer, and plate are balanced. i still think I can back off my injector timing a degree to smooth idle.
power - compared to the 3fe the diesel has more power with the improved turbo (with out turbo, or with weak turbo, it has WAY less power), more instant power with out having to wait for it to spin up to a high rpm. i do not feel that it has an excess amount of power (like driving my 6bt cummins in a dodge pickup), but i am okay with that since I am getting such great mileage, over 500 miles on a tank. in low gears it has Tremendous power, and torque. it climbs easily and the torque is very noticeable, with an instant burst if needed to bump over something, or to get a run at something. In four wheel low, and in low gear, there is a lot of gear advantage here, but it would pull its guts out and blow other stuff apart on my stock rig. i really enjoyed this lowend power with 4 people and a big ole cooler of beer in the back, and it barked up the hill.
Recommendations: I would suggest smaller tires if you want to be powered for highway driving, to reduce rubber gearing. I have not found 3600 rpms yet, have only gotten to 3000, so yet to really feel the full potential? fuel amount seems about right, i would always prefer the leaner more efficient side. i will report my max speed on the flats some day. Install boost, egt, and oil pressure minimum, more sensors the more data you can make more power adjustments with.
ease of swap, and maintenance - this was my first and was not insignificant. i had high expectations perhaps, with altitude, and sustained hills to climb. so it took me awhile. but the electric is easy, the isuzu diesel swapper is easy, even the turbo and the main components are mechanical, and you can work on them. i hate chasing electrical problems down. the space seems perfect. there is room, but it fits well vertically, from firewall to radiator, and oilpan to diff. just got it in there. always starts. even in 20deg weather it starts with glow plugs and hardly smokes. the 6bt is sluggish in the same temps. very reliable starting, glowplugs, block heater, and diesel therm will insure starting in the coldest conditions.
recommendations:i would do the turbo fitting and injection pump, and some of these other major jobs on the engine stand, but it is pretty easy to work on in the vehicle. there are still oil leaks. seems like all diesels always leak? i will continue to chase these down and try to reduce its nasty habit of leaving its mark everywhere.
short answer is yes. for sure. more power, and fuel economy that is close to double the 3fe.
rattles and vibration- these have been minimized with time and revisions - ASTR showed up in park city and we drove the land cruiser before turbo swap. it still had a low idle rattle, and a high speed vibration. When doing the turbo and inspecting, I noticed the ujoint bolts loose. so this was causing the high speed vibes, and an easy fix. i also recently increased rpms to about 900 idle, and 675 rpm when in drive (auto trans). the turbo has helped idle with positive pressure at idle rpms. I also feel like at cruise it now has more power and runs more smoothly, on a good tarmac surface it is really nice, my mother even approved. I found intake hitting a body heat shield, and air intake pipes touching and vibrating, and corrected these small but annoying issues.
Recommedations - i would be sure to use an angled rubber engine mount, like the isuzu stock style would be my next choice. there are others out there but I like this style over a vertical pattern. I would somehow try to confirm the flywheel, spacer, and plate are balanced. i still think I can back off my injector timing a degree to smooth idle.
power - compared to the 3fe the diesel has more power with the improved turbo (with out turbo, or with weak turbo, it has WAY less power), more instant power with out having to wait for it to spin up to a high rpm. i do not feel that it has an excess amount of power (like driving my 6bt cummins in a dodge pickup), but i am okay with that since I am getting such great mileage, over 500 miles on a tank. in low gears it has Tremendous power, and torque. it climbs easily and the torque is very noticeable, with an instant burst if needed to bump over something, or to get a run at something. In four wheel low, and in low gear, there is a lot of gear advantage here, but it would pull its guts out and blow other stuff apart on my stock rig. i really enjoyed this lowend power with 4 people and a big ole cooler of beer in the back, and it barked up the hill.
Recommendations: I would suggest smaller tires if you want to be powered for highway driving, to reduce rubber gearing. I have not found 3600 rpms yet, have only gotten to 3000, so yet to really feel the full potential? fuel amount seems about right, i would always prefer the leaner more efficient side. i will report my max speed on the flats some day. Install boost, egt, and oil pressure minimum, more sensors the more data you can make more power adjustments with.
ease of swap, and maintenance - this was my first and was not insignificant. i had high expectations perhaps, with altitude, and sustained hills to climb. so it took me awhile. but the electric is easy, the isuzu diesel swapper is easy, even the turbo and the main components are mechanical, and you can work on them. i hate chasing electrical problems down. the space seems perfect. there is room, but it fits well vertically, from firewall to radiator, and oilpan to diff. just got it in there. always starts. even in 20deg weather it starts with glow plugs and hardly smokes. the 6bt is sluggish in the same temps. very reliable starting, glowplugs, block heater, and diesel therm will insure starting in the coldest conditions.
recommendations:i would do the turbo fitting and injection pump, and some of these other major jobs on the engine stand, but it is pretty easy to work on in the vehicle. there are still oil leaks. seems like all diesels always leak? i will continue to chase these down and try to reduce its nasty habit of leaving its mark everywhere.
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great info. thanks for recapping your thoughts. Couple more... did you ever turn your fuel up? (either before or after the turbo swap)
Is your speedo readings from above, actual speed (ie: compensated for 33" tires) or just what the gauge is reading (which would imply that you're really going about 67MPH up that hill.)
Is your speedo readings from above, actual speed (ie: compensated for 33" tires) or just what the gauge is reading (which would imply that you're really going about 67MPH up that hill.)
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injection pump was rebuilt and fuel was turned up from stock, i do not know how much. i have since turned it down 1/4 turn.
actual speeds are reported, and actual mileage is reported, adjusted by 10% for the tires.
euclid
SILVER Star
Did you keep an acounting of your time and cost? Care to share?
not sure if this is news to anyone but....
this may have been covered before, i'm not sure, but i figured i'd share just incase it's news to anyone else besides me. apparently the 4bd can be/came bolted to ford c6s, which I think was offered as a 4wd trans too, or atleast has the same bellhousing as other ford 4wd transmissions. maybe this particular ford tranny has an industrial bell housing or some other possibility that i'm not aware of, but like i said, just incase this went un noticed before....
eBay Motors: Isuzu 4DB1 Diesel Engine W/ C6 Transmission included (item 270300739565 end time Nov-17-08 05:51:13 PST)
this may have been covered before, i'm not sure, but i figured i'd share just incase it's news to anyone else besides me. apparently the 4bd can be/came bolted to ford c6s, which I think was offered as a 4wd trans too, or atleast has the same bellhousing as other ford 4wd transmissions. maybe this particular ford tranny has an industrial bell housing or some other possibility that i'm not aware of, but like i said, just incase this went un noticed before....
eBay Motors: Isuzu 4DB1 Diesel Engine W/ C6 Transmission included (item 270300739565 end time Nov-17-08 05:51:13 PST)
Careful.Only the non-turbo 4bd has a sae#3 pattern.The turbo 4, 4bd1t, has a unique, non sae pattern.That being said, I used this combo in a Ford van.I think if you were conservative you could add a turbo to this e bay engine and have a good candidate for a swap.
It's not a turbo/non turbo split on the bellhousings.
It's truck sourced engines vs industrial engines. The industrial ones have the SAE housing.
Having said that, the bellhousing in that photo appears to be the truck version and has a big adapter plate bolted to it. Possibly a variation on the Isuzudieselswapper kit.
The engine itself is an industrial unit (note the large side mounted breather, lack of oil supply to the injector pump gear, no acoustic covers and the flat rocker cover).
Agreed, although in the States it amounts to the same thing.I just wanted to nip the rumor in the bud before anyone spends money based on it.The SAE to Ford C-6 adaptor is available through Phoenix Castings, should anyone want to use the industrial engine.
i've said it before, i'll say it again. dieselswappers kit is a modified phx casting kit, any vehicle tranny behind any isuzu, sae or not is a phx casting kit. nothing bolts right to the engine except an isuzu tranny.
the ebay item above is made possible via a phx casting kit, you can see the tranny has fords pattern still.
88TLC, its great to have another running driving cruiser with an isuzu on the board !!
the ebay item above is made possible via a phx casting kit, you can see the tranny has fords pattern still.
88TLC, its great to have another running driving cruiser with an isuzu on the board !!
Not on this engine.The only tranny that will bolt up without an adapter is a SAE#3 pattern (Allison comes to mind).The adapter is to convert from a SAE to C6.The 4bd1 that I have is a 1980, and I don't think the Isuzu 5 speed arrived until 1986.The Aisin auto appeared a year or two later.
note: I should have said "not on this Flywheel cover", as the engine back pattern is the same.
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It appears there are four main types of bellhousings.
1. Isuzu truck bellhousing. This is similar size to SAE #3 but has different bolt spacing. The bottom of the
Different markets and years give variants with the 2 or 3 bolt starter.
2. Isuzu industrial bellhousing. This is SAE #3 and noticably longer than the truck bellhousing. It features four bolt mount holes on each side.
3. Isuzu QD100 bellhousing. This is the model name the 4BD1 was originally introduced to NA under. It appears identical length to the truck bellhousing, but has a lip that extends right around underneath and has a drain plug fitted to the bottom.
I expect this is the one Coog has. It could be the one in the ebay ad, but I'd need better photos.
4. Landrover bellhousing. I haven't yet mapped out the pattern for this (though a helpful gentleman has sent me the measurements), it mounts the starter up higher than the Isuzu bellhousings to clear the landrover chassis rail. They bolt up to landrover LT95 or LT85 transmissions. Originally developed for the Australian Army but also sold in civilian landrovers in the late 80's in the pacific region.
1. Isuzu truck bellhousing. This is similar size to SAE #3 but has different bolt spacing. The bottom of the
Different markets and years give variants with the 2 or 3 bolt starter.
2. Isuzu industrial bellhousing. This is SAE #3 and noticably longer than the truck bellhousing. It features four bolt mount holes on each side.
3. Isuzu QD100 bellhousing. This is the model name the 4BD1 was originally introduced to NA under. It appears identical length to the truck bellhousing, but has a lip that extends right around underneath and has a drain plug fitted to the bottom.
I expect this is the one Coog has. It could be the one in the ebay ad, but I'd need better photos.
4. Landrover bellhousing. I haven't yet mapped out the pattern for this (though a helpful gentleman has sent me the measurements), it mounts the starter up higher than the Isuzu bellhousings to clear the landrover chassis rail. They bolt up to landrover LT95 or LT85 transmissions. Originally developed for the Australian Army but also sold in civilian landrovers in the late 80's in the pacific region.
Bellhousing photo lineup with descriptions are here:
Isuzu 4BD1 Bell-housings. - Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums
Isuzu 4BD1 Bell-housings. - Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums
Progress on 4bd1t in a 91' fj80
I've got the engine sitting in the bay in the place I want it. I thought I'd post pics and show the clearence. Motor mounts should be done in a couple of weeks. It is in position to use stock driveshaft lengths. It seems like the fj60 bay may hold this engine with more room. Some clearence issues: ofset to passenger side 3/4"- puts the oil pan closer to the diff, 2.5-3" oil pan to diff, starter to frame 3/4", front of engine to radiator, without fan 2", top front of engine to hood 2", air intake to firewall 3". I could probably move the engine back 2-5" depending on if I wanted to reroute the air intake on the turbo and/or get the drive shafts cut, read cost in time $ and motivation.I had wanted to install an air air intercooler in the front but not with 2", mabey I'll do a air water intercooler
. I think that more lift would be nice
. I have 850 OME right now.
I've got the engine sitting in the bay in the place I want it. I thought I'd post pics and show the clearence. Motor mounts should be done in a couple of weeks. It is in position to use stock driveshaft lengths. It seems like the fj60 bay may hold this engine with more room. Some clearence issues: ofset to passenger side 3/4"- puts the oil pan closer to the diff, 2.5-3" oil pan to diff, starter to frame 3/4", front of engine to radiator, without fan 2", top front of engine to hood 2", air intake to firewall 3". I could probably move the engine back 2-5" depending on if I wanted to reroute the air intake on the turbo and/or get the drive shafts cut, read cost in time $ and motivation.I had wanted to install an air air intercooler in the front but not with 2", mabey I'll do a air water intercooler
. I think that more lift would be nice. I have 850 OME right now.
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