isuzu 4BD1T swap?! (5 Viewers)

[RHINO]

i'm looking into the R-150 toyota 5 speed. should be stout enough, i thought about NV4500 but they are overated, overpriced and i dont like the gear shift points.

p.s. the adapter from dave is made specifically for the 700r4, the pilot bearing hole is too small for GM manual or one of the chevy engine to toyota tranny swap kits. you can have your machine shop open the hole or dave can have it done if you ask before he ships it out. once thats done the back of the isuzu looks just like a chevy small block.

 

[dieselcruiserhead]

astr thanks for that visualization. It really helps me envision what needs to be done. As for finding an engine I would rebuild it before installation. That way it will last a long time. Now from the deminisions of the engine compartment, and the dimensions of the engine, it there much space around it. The 3fe is hard to work on as it is, and will not spend 10 grand and a hole summer of my time to make a vehicle that is a pain in the ass to work on. I would think the isuzu is shorter then the 3fe? I will have to move the radiator and condensor back a few inches so I can mount a big fmic up front. Haha, I kep dreaming of many different ways to go about this project.

Does the isuzu have a hand primer by the lift pump?

thanks for any help to answer these qyestions, -nate-

Nate yes there is a hand primer pump.. And yes a lot shorter than a 2F or 3FE, I would call it about 4.5 cyls long by 3FE standards.. Definitely noticeably shorter...

 

[PurpleFJ62]

as far as daves kits I think there might be another way. This is just a wild idea... The isuzu diesels have been used in many things, from trucks to tractors. So we know about the really nice adapter kit to go from SAE4 to SBC/350. So if we were to get a SAE4 flywheel housing and flywheel, couldent we use that kit. I think it would work?
however when you type isuzu 4bd1t in google you dont get much stuff other than andres site.

I am glad its shorter, will help to spread things out a little in the engine compartment. Have a good charge air cooler up front!!

 

[RHINO]

i am totally missing your point, instead of buying daves adapter that is here and readily available, you want to try and find a very rare and uncommon SAE adapter and then convert that to SBC?? why am i missing the benefit?

 

[PurpleFJ62]

from my understanding you have to use an isuzu flywheel with a big bulky spacer and then bolt up a chevy flywheel/flexplate. Dosent having 2 flywheels seem a little odd? Now I am no expert on this, but I know you can get an adapter for ANY Sae4 diesel engine to a SBC 350.
http://www.phxgrp.com/transmission.htm
Now the picture is not so good, but it might be possible to do the same setup with less complications. Thus having a lower chance of problems?

So if you can get an automotive spec isuzu and throw on the industrial rear end of it, you might be able to use this kit?

I dont know if getting the sae4 housing is hard, but maby another alternative?

 

[RHINO]

ok, that link is Phx castings. as you can see they only do SAE-SBC adapters, so, Dave made his own based on Phx castings. i havent actually asked him about it, but i'm sure he just bought they're centers and he machines the rings for the metric isuzu.

i also have seen SAE bellhouings on various engines(cummins generator for example) and i can tell you they are exactly the same as what is on the isuzu right now, exept they have a differnt bolt pattern and size making them SAE instead of isuzu's metric version of the SAE. if you found an SAE for the isuzu and bought the kit that you linked you would have the same double flywheel adapter that Dave sells, but you would have spent alot of time and money getting it.

i dont mean to be a bummer, but that my friend is the story of the mystical SAE bellhouing that isuzu used to sell and could adapt a GM tranny.

 

[PurpleFJ62]

I see what your saying, so there is no way to get around this double flywheel business? Since I am not putting a slushbox in my cruiser I will have 2 heavy flywheels insead of just one. Maby getting as lightweight gm flywheel will be the ticket?

any ideas?

 

[RHINO]

think about it this way,you keep the isuzu flywheel either way and if you were running a slushbox you would have that heavy torque converter also. its spinning mass, kinda like an anti stall feature i dont think its gonna be a problem.

 

[astr]

The potential problem that you could have with two flywheels is due to the gyroscopic effect. Every time the engine experiences a significant sideforce, such as bouncing over a rock, the spinning flywheel exerts a tremendous force on the crankshaft at 90* to the external force, just like a gyroscope. By mounting a second flywheel some distance further back from the rear main bearing, you are increasing the length of the lever arm for the gyroscopic force to act through. My guess, and it is only a guess, is it could lead to failure of the rear main bearing or cracking of the crankshaft.

There is evidence that this phenomenon is real. In single engine airplanes, the propeller, which acts as the flywheel, is usually attached directly to the front of the crankshaft. This puts the propeller close to the cowling resulting in a less than ideal aerodynamic situation. To alleviate this problem, some manufacturers add a short extension shaft between the propeller (flywheel) and the crankshaft which allows them to build a more aerodynamic cowling. All of the airplanes using these extensions are prohibited from doing aerobatics because of the gyroscopic forces which have resulted in crankshafts breaking or cracking.

For those considering the dual-flywheel approach, I would suggest that the second flywheel be made as light as possible, maybe even an aluminum flywheel. This may not be as big of an issue on an automatic transmission setup beacause the torque converter has substantial support on the transmission side where it goes into the front pump.

I should be working on my 4BD1 but it's raining outside, so instead I am spending time on MUD.

 

[RHINO]

well ya know what they say,, its only money and i am performing an expierament for those that will follow my lead i guess. but i think you are forgetting something, a clutch is only two pieces while your holding the pedal down, the rest of the time its pretty much as solid as anything supported by the pilot bearing and tranny input bearing. i dont think the weight of the second flywheel will have any effect vertically, unless you bomb down bouncy roads with the clutch pedal pushed in.

 

[astr]

You are absolutely right! Someone needs to try it and report real results. It is too easy to sit here and speculate. Go for it and tell us how it worked out. I'd love to have someone show me I'm full of s**t!

 

[RHINO]

i am in the process of going for it right now, pig is gutted and im piecing together the new drivetrain right now. if everything goes right it'll be back on the road in two weeks. believe it or not wiring the alternator is going to be the hardest part for me.

 

[Dieseltim]

Pics plz

Rhino, plz post some pics of what you have gotten done.

Dieseltim

 

[acy76]

I think using a lightweight flywheel is probably a fine idea - should not be a problem to find one for a GM smallblock application, I'd guess. As was stated previously, all of this spinning mass is also supported by the transmission's input bearing, so the airplane example is not quite the same thing.

One thing to consider is whether there is a clutch disc with adequate springs to absorb the power pulses from a big 4 diesel. Without this, all the pulses are going to go into the gearbox - sort of like turning the input shaft with an impact wrench. Would a GM diesel clutch work at all?

 

[RHINO]

i dont think diesel pulses will be a problem, do you know how many frito lay, UPS, wonderbread ect ect trucks are out there with a cummins 4BT and SM465 tranny?? well its a lot and they collectively have a bazillion miles with no clutch problems ive eaver heard of, plus, the 4BT has a harder hitting torque curve cause of the crazy long stroke so, i am really not worried about my swap at all, but, it is expiramental.


dieseltim, right now the only pics i could offer is all the drivetrain parts on the garage floor being put together, and a big empty hole under the hood. once i get things going and start installing i will have something to look at. patience young grasshopper.

 

[astr]

i am in the process of going for it right now, pig is gutted and im piecing together the new drivetrain right now. if everything goes right it'll be back on the road in two weeks. believe it or not wiring the alternator is going to be the hardest part for me.

The alternator connections are very simple. The standard Isuzu alternator has an integral regulator which makes it even easier to wire up. Check Fig. 9 on page 6D-14 of the FSM for detailed wiring.

Basically, you have three wires going to a round connector on the back of the alternator plus a heavy black wire (B) going to the output stud also on the back of the alternator. This black wire should be heavy enough to handle the full alternator output (70 A) and goes directly to the (+) of the battery (might be a good idea to protect it with a fusible link or big fuse). The black wire (S) from the round connector also goes directly to the (+) of the battery. It serves to sense the actual voltage at the battery which the regulator uses to control the output voltage of the alternator. The white wire (IG) from the round connector goes to the ignition switch and should be hot only when the ignition switch is in the "run" position. This wire turns the charging system on and off. The white with blue stripe (L) is used to control the "Charge" indicator light and is optional. When the alternator is charging, the (L) wire is hot and turns on the "charge indicator relay". Since the indicator light is wired through the normally closed set of contacts on the relay, when the relay is turned on, the indicator light goes out. Hope that makes sense.

 

[RHINO]

well, thanks again, i'm keeping count and thats two beers now

 

[PurpleFJ62]

good info there, so basically you are splicing these into the toyota wiring harness? What color are those wires?
-nate-

 

[acy76]

i dont think diesel pulses will be a problem, do you know how many frito lay, UPS, wonderbread ect ect trucks are out there with a cummins 4BT and SM465 tranny?? well its a lot and they collectively have a bazillion miles with no clutch problems ive eaver heard of, plus, the 4BT has a harder hitting torque curve cause of the crazy long stroke so, i am really not worried about my swap at all, but, it is expiramental.

Good point. Whatever clutch the Cummins swap uses would be the one I would choose. Any ideas as to which one it is?

 

[RHINO]

10.5 inch chevy, could be 11" but not much difference either way.