Is my suspension worn out?

[jeremy j]

Hey all. I have a 2014 Luxury with about 90k that I am slowly upgrading. Still on stock wheels and tires. I actually like the rear air bags and was hoping to keep that for a while and put a leveling spacer on until I get a mild lift. Reading @heliwill10 thread and noticed his before picture showed the fender height at about 34 5/8 before the spacer. Looking at my truck and it is at 33 1/4 drivers and 33 1/2 passenger side.

I have steel RCI skids (engine, trans and transfer case and aluminum gas tank skid) and Victory Sliders so I've definitely added some weight (maybe ~250lbs) but this seems like a pretty big difference. I checked and with the skids I only have a little over 7" clearance. That seems insane. I don't think I have enough wait to lose over an inch of height.

I already have 17" wheels and will be putting on 285/70 in the next month or so (I'll do what I need to make them fit) so that will help a little but I am just wondering if I need heavier springs and a lift already. Does this seem normal to you all?

 

[Banandalorian]

Adding steel skids on top of my sliders and aluminum front bumper was what noticeably sagged my stock suspension. At 90k miles the stock shocks are probably pretty tired as well. I would skip the leveling pucks up front and just find a lift you want. There are tricks and/or spacers you can get the keep the rear airbags and get like 1-2 inches of rear lift if you search around.

 

[re_guderian]

Tough to compare to others with ground-to-fender measurements because of the many variable of tire choice, pressure, etc. A measurement from the center of the hub to the fender lip takes the tire out of the equation.

 

[r2m]

How does it feel driving? Are you banging the bump stops all the time over dips and speed bumps?
What shape are your shocks in? If your shocks are gone, you'll probably have some sag.

 

[Rednexus]

A stock GX has pretty pathetic ground clearance. When we bought ours, our Outback we had at the time beat it by around an inch.

I would be surprised if your suspension was truly worn out at 90K, however the lifespan for a suspension in one of these rigs is probably on the order of 120-140K (which, is very good for a vehicle in general), so it won't be factory-fresh either.

If you do intend to do much wheeling, you'll drag quite a bit with only 7" of ground clearance (I sure did - and beat my skids up pretty bad). I would suggest budgeting for a lift, which should get you up in the 10"+ of ground clearance under the front skid.

Regarding the airbags, most folks do like them but pretty much everyone who deletes them for coils does not miss them. I'm in that camp and I also tow often, have a set of drawers, and load my GX up with a rear hitch carrier. I have never once wanted to go back to airbags.

 

[jeremy j]

Adding steel skids on top of my sliders and aluminum front bumper was what noticeably sagged my stock suspension. At 90k miles the stock shocks are probably pretty tired as well. I would skip the leveling pucks up front and just find a lift you want. There are tricks and/or spacers you can get the keep the rear airbags and get like 1-2 inches of rear lift if you search around.

Interesting. I weigh about 250lb myself and I was measuring this without me in the car so skids, sliders and me is 500lbs and adding one more person the thing is going to be dragging frame.

I don't think I've ever heard of anyone only lifting the front but I like the idea. I have a lot of rake so if I could lift the front 2 inches, it would be close to level with the rear. I've seen the airbag tricks but the rear seems plenty high for me on normal. If I were to just lift the front to get where I think it should be, then I would use the air bag tricks to get it level.

Tough to compare to others with ground-to-fender measurements because of the many variable of tire choice, pressure, etc. A measurement from the center of the hub to the fender lip takes the tire out of the equation.

Yeah makes sense that it isn't perfect but stock tire size to stock tire size, I would hope it would be within 1/2 or so. Just seemed like a big difference.

How does it feel driving? Are you banging the bump stops all the time over dips and speed bumps?
What shape are your shocks in? If your shocks are gone, you'll probably have some sag.

It's the only GX I've ever driven but seems good. No bad shock seals or clunks but it has definitely hits the bump stops. I really haven't noticed it but I can see where they hit. I don't have anywhere to wheel around me so not sure what caused that.

A stock GX has pretty pathetic ground clearance. When we bought ours, our Outback we had at the time beat it by around an inch.

I would be surprised if your suspension was truly worn out at 90K, however the lifespan for a suspension in one of these rigs is probably on the order of 120-140K (which, is very good for a vehicle in general), so it won't be factory-fresh either.

If you do intend to do much wheeling, you'll drag quite a bit with only 7" of ground clearance (I sure did - and beat my skids up pretty bad). I would suggest budgeting for a lift, which should get you up in the 10"+ of ground clearance under the front skid.

Regarding the airbags, most folks do like them but pretty much everyone who deletes them for coils does not miss them. I'm in that camp and I also tow often, have a set of drawers, and load my GX up with a rear hitch carrier. I have never once wanted to go back to airbags.

I had no idea it would be that bad. At his point, I'd kill for 8.5". 10" would be amazing. I don't think I have an issue with the shocks but I was wondering if the stock springs are just too soft to handle any extra weight.

Living near Austin, there isn't much offroading unless you go to a private OHV park. We are going to Colorado in August and I want to do the Alpine Loop and a few other trails. We are thinking of moving west in a few years to get access to more wheeling. I plan on keeping the truck for a long while so I might have to just to bite the bullet and get a lift.


Thanks to all of you for the responses.

 

[GrizzlyClint]

Once the running boards are removed a stock GX460 will have about 8" of clearance with the rear diff being the low point. Something as simple as going with 265/70/17 tires will give you another 1" of clearance.

 

[jeremy j]

Did some more digging and found @posersurfers post about replacing just the front with Bilsteins and they have the measurements from the hub.

Anyone running Bilstein 6112 on GX460?

I'm intrested to know if anyone has installed the 6112/5160 shocks on the GX460? From what I gather, the 4runner versions would fit, but I'm curious about the weight difference. The GX is roughly 5,100 lbs vs the 4,750 on a 4runner. Does the weight difference merit a higher spring rate than...

forum.ih8mud.com

Bilstein 6112 with the 650lb springs (BIL-47-281202)
DF: Before 20 1/4”, After 22 1/16”
PF: Before 19 7/8”, After 21 7/8”
DR(N setting): Before 21 1/2”, After 22 1/8”
PR(N setting): Before 21 1/4”, After 21 7/8”

Here is what mine measures.
DF 19.5
PF 19
DR 21 N setting
PR 21 N setting

Looks like mine is about 3/4 lower in front but his truck is stock. That is probably just the extra weight from the skids and sliders.

I am thinking I could do the 700lb springs in front and get about what I am looking for. I will probably add a Victory Blitz bumper in the next year or so and that's 70lbs and a winch adds more.

 

[jeremy j]

Once the running boards are removed a stock GX460 will have about 8" of clearance with the rear diff being the low point. Something as simple as going with 265/70/17 tires will give you another 1" of clearance.

Yeah the rear looks good to me. I will have 285/70r17 on in the next month so adding over an inch with tires is all I really need right now back there.

 

[r2m]

If you do intend to do much wheeling, you'll drag quite a bit with only 7" of ground clearance (I sure did - and beat my skids up pretty bad). I would suggest budgeting for a lift, which should get you up in the 10"+ of ground clearance under the front skid.

The 10" of ground clearance may be tire size dependent. Not sure you'll get 10 inches on stock tires.

 

[Banandalorian]

I am thinking I could do the 700lb springs in front and get about what I am looking for. I will probably add a Victory Blitz bumper in the next year or so and that's 70lbs and a winch adds more.

I have steel skids, sliders, Victory Blitz and a OVS SCAR 10k winch which is pretty light at 60lbs. I have Dobinsons MRA with the "heavy" front springs. I think because the Victory bumper is aluminum and the winch is relatively light it puts me right on the edge where the medium or heavy springs would work. Before I added the winch, the front was a little over-sprung but wasn't a big deal since the shocks are adjustable.

 

[GrizzlyClint]

Yeah the rear looks good to me. I will have 285/70r17 on in the next month so adding over an inch with tires is all I really need right now back there.

I'm with you. I'm not rock crawling so my stock suspension and taller tires is all I need.

 

[Rednexus]

The 10" of ground clearance may be tire size dependent. Not sure you'll get 10 inches on stock tires.

Here is mine with a very worn set of 265/70R17s. I'm around 11" under the lowest part of the skid and nearly 13" at the front. Nearly all of the mangling of my skids is from wheeling before I lifted. I literally went up nearly 4" in the front due to the combination of worn springs, a minor amount of weight, and a 2.5" FCP lift.

@jeremy j, totally get it about Austin. I went to UT for graduate school in the aughts. Great city/town, but coming from MO I really missed large expanses of public land.

Regarding the Alpine Loop, we took our GX out to CO/UT in 2021 pre-lift. When I got back home both front shocks had blown out and the rear airbags started leaking . This was at 140K. We just did Ophir Pass and Yankee Boy Basin. Traction was no problem, but we drug a ton on the west side of Ophir Pass. A guy in a MTB descended it significantly faster than we did. So, some of those trails can be pretty miserable with limited ground clearance - I'd suggest lift/tires first, then a winch. I ended up buying a lift as soon as I got home. Now I drag very infrequently. You can probably catch a 4th of July sale and get one cheaper than normal.

 

[Banandalorian]

33s and 2.2F/2.5R lift vs stock for reference. The sagging stock suspension probably feels fine on the road, but it becomes very noticeable once you get off road. It gets pretty bouncy as you run out of uptravel and you realise how low the nose really is.

 

[Hiluxforever]

Yea I did a relatively easy trail in Colorado with just tires and it was a slog. Ready to do it again with shocks, a lift and the KDSS disconnect.

 

[jeremy j]

Here is mine with a very worn set of 265/70R17s. I'm around 11" under the lowest part of the skid and nearly 13" at the front. Nearly all of the mangling of my skids is from wheeling before I lifted. I literally went up nearly 4" in the front due to the combination of worn springs, a minor amount of weight, and a 2.5" FCP lift.
View attachment 3655783
@jeremy j, totally get it about Austin. I went to UT for graduate school in the aughts. Great city/town, but coming from MO I really missed large expanses of public land.

Regarding the Alpine Loop, we took our GX out to CO/UT in 2021 pre-lift. When I got back home both front shocks had blown out and the rear airbags started leaking . This was at 140K. We just did Ophir Pass and Yankee Boy Basin. Traction was no problem, but we drug a ton on the west side of Ophir Pass. A guy in a MTB descended it significantly faster than we did. So, some of those trails can be pretty miserable with limited ground clearance - I'd suggest lift/tires first, then a winch. I ended up buying a lift as soon as I got home. Now I drag very infrequently. You can probably catch a 4th of July sale and get one cheaper than normal.

Man that is a lot of clearance!

It's one of the things I hate most about living in Texas. We live in a small town west of Austin and it's a great town but I am so jealous of states with public land. Texas only has like 4% public land compared to almost 50% in Colorado.

Thanks for the info about the Alpine Loop. I can't wait to get up there. I was going to try to do the trip with just armor and bigger tires but there is just no way I can try with this little clearance. I ordered the Bilstein 6112 Heavy kit from Slee and will install it before my trip. I'll set it at about 1.5" over stock and put some washers on the rear to level it. I think that should get me in the 9" of clearance or so. Then I'll add my 285/70r17 KO3s and I hopefully I'll be in the 10" range.

 

[r2m]

Man that is a lot of clearance!

It's one of the things I hate most about living in Texas. We live in a small town west of Austin and it's a great town but I am so jealous of states with public land. Texas only has like 4% public land compared to almost 50% in Colorado.

Thanks for the info about the Alpine Loop. I can't wait to get up there. I was going to try to do the trip with just armor and bigger tires but there is just no way I can try with this little clearance. I ordered the Bilstein 6112 Heavy kit from Slee and will install it before my trip. I'll set it at about 1.5" over stock and put some washers on the rear to level it. I think that should get me in the 9" of clearance or so. Then I'll add my 285/70r17 KO3s and I hopefully I'll be in the 10" range.

Don't get too jealous over CO. Consider how much of it is unaccessible by road because of the mountains and the size of CO compared to TX. 4% of Texas is a LOT larger than 4% of CO.
That 4% of public land in Texas is probably 100% accessible to off roading, where probably only 10% of that 50% of CO public land has trails for off roading because of the terrain topography.

But I can understand how you feel. We're lucky here in CA that we have such diverse and open off roading available here. Deserts, lowlands in the Winter, then mountains and high country in the Summer. One of the {very} few pluses of living here.

 

[Banandalorian]

Man that is a lot of clearance!

Thanks for the info about the Alpine Loop. I can't wait to get up there. I was going to try to do the trip with just armor and bigger tires but there is just no way I can try with this little clearance. I ordered the Bilstein 6112 Heavy kit from Slee and will install it before my trip. I'll set it at about 1.5" over stock and put some washers on the rear to level it. I think that should get me in the 9" of clearance or so. Then I'll add my 285/70r17 KO3s and I hopefully I'll be in the 10" range.

I was curious so I just went out and measured in the driveway. I have a 2017 with 285/70/17s and roughly 2.2 inch front and 2.5 inch rear lift. I also have the Victory Blitz front bumper, and full Budbuilt steel skids, including the rear diff skid.

The bottom of the front skid is an even foot off the ground. The lowest point on the transmission/tcase skids, which is the lowest spot on the car aside from the rear diff, is 11.5 inches off the ground. The bottom of the rear diff skid is a hair over 9.5 inches so the diff itself is probably 10 inches off the ground with 33s. The fuel tank skid and lower rear link mounts are 13 inches off the ground. Everything else is way up there so I stopped measuring because it's hot but you should have plenty of clearance with 33s and a 1.5 inch lift.

It should also ride better and be much more controlled off road. With a bunch of extra weight on the stock suspension, you will quickly find that you have to go super slow over anything resembling even a tiny whoop because the front end will slam onto the bumpstops when you come down.

 

[Rednexus]

Don't get too jealous over CO. Consider how much of it is unaccessible by road because of the mountains and the size of CO compared to TX. 4% of Texas is a LOT larger than 4% of CO.
That 4% of public land in Texas is probably 100% accessible to off roading, where probably only 10% of that 50% of CO public land has trails for off roading because of the terrain topography.

But I can understand how you feel. We're lucky here in CA that we have such diverse and open off roading available here. Deserts, lowlands in the Winter, then mountains and high country in the Summer. One of the {very} few pluses of living here.

Trying to keep Texans from moving west? .

Living in TX was tough from me, after having grown up in the Ozarks. Where we are now we have half a million plus acres of public land within an hour - plus several wilderness areas, thousands of miles of backroads, hundreds of miles of hiking trails, and handful of pretty nice places to wheel. In central Texas you are looking at driving 8+ hours to Big Bend to get any real expanse of public land, or some of the national forest in East Texas (which isn't much to write home about).

 

[jeremy j]

Yeah sure seems like @r2m is trying to keep me out of the west.

I have to agree with @Rednexus. There are no public offroading areas within 6 hours of me and that is Big Bend. Looking at Onx offroad, there isn't anything mapped that isn't just a public road with a little dirt road and water crossings. It's really bad.

Back to the original subject, I got my 6112 HD kit yesterday and will install it this weekend. I was test fitting my new wheels and I have been hitting bump stops. Looks like it is pretty bad.

The wheels look great and I can't wait to get them mounted in the next few weeks. We are heading down to Port Aransas in a few weeks so I'll get to try out K03s in the sand.