Is it bad to find metal in the oil pan? (1 Viewer)

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Kind of like this in my 3B oil pan?

IMG_20121203_135740.jpg


:lol:

So, here's the somewhat condensed story. Last spring, I replaced all my cam bearings because of low oil pressure. Since I was into that far, I replaced the precups as well - they were all cracked, too. I had a factory Toyota MLS head gasket and put it all back together. At the time, it seemed like the head gasket fit a little tight around the liners. But, it was the first time I had done a head gasket at all, let alone on a sleeved engine. I torqued everything down, tried to turn it over by hand, and it wouldn't go. Turns out, Toyota gave me a head gasket for a non-sleeved 3B (I think out of a dyna bus or something). Torquing it down caused the liners to interfere with the piston. I sourced an aftermarket gasket and put it on. I looked at the liners at the time because I was pretty worried about them getting cracked. But, I didn't see anything. Put it all back together and it has run beautifully for the past 8 months.

So, then I decided to add a turbo. After a few drives and about a total of 1 hour of boosted engine time, I thought I hydrolocked it coming away from a stop light on my way to work. The engine stopped abruptly in the intersection. I was worried about the aftermarket headgasket, so I assumed that's what it was. I tried to restart, but the engine was pretty well locked up. I pushed it to the side of the road and after a few minutes of messing with it, the engine broke free and started. It didn't sound good, but it certainly didn't sound like catastrophic engine damage was happening. I limped it about a mile home and parked it. The next day, I pulled off the head and found this:

IMG_20121202_124638.jpg


It turns out that the #2 liner had let loose and wedged itself between the piston and head. I found all 4 liners were broken off just below the surface of the block.

IMG_20121203_114332.jpg


When everything let loose, it messed up the piston squirter, but more importantly it busted a chunk off the block at the base of the liner. You can kind of see it here opposite of the piston squirter.

IMG_20121203_140405.jpg


IMG_20121203_140331.jpg


And the piston and head:

IMG_20121203_135713.jpg


IMG_20121202_124724.jpg


So, does that now make this engine a boat anchor? I am assuming yes, but since it will have a sleeve over that section, I thought I would ask here. I plan on having this rig for awhile, so I was just going to rebuild it even though I could probably source a used engine for far cheaper than a rebuild. But after seeing the damage, it seems I might just be better off sourcing a used engine even with unknown maintenance history. What do y'all think?

Thanks!

:cheers:
 
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I dont think its a boat anchor ,although I couldnt see the broken part.

How did a loose liner do that to the piston?:confused:
 
I dont think its a boat anchor ,although I couldnt see the broken part.

How did a loose liner do that to the piston?:confused:

Here's another picture. I tried to get both an intact one and the broken one in the same picture. Broken one on the left just above the camshaft.

IMG_20121203_145534.jpg


And here are the pieces missing from the block (probably others as well, but these are the big chunks. The piston is just for size reference.

IMG_20121203_150012.jpg



As far as how the liner did that, I don't know. I'm guessing a chunk fell on top of the piston when it let loose. That's my only guess. :confused:
 
Wow man those are some impressive pictures. Due to the broken piece of the block being at the bottom of the liner, I don't think it would be seeing combustion pressures and is there to support the liner where the piston skirt drops and BTC. It does look pretty harsh, but I would bet it would be unaffected if you got new liner pressed in. Looking at those pictures though, I would be putting a good effort into sourcing another block. That one has been traumatized by a significant mechanism and there could very well be unseen damage waiting for you. Sucks. Good thing is your pretty close to BC where you can still find a 3B for a good price.
g
 
Hey Freak
You bin reading my mail.. I did the exact same thing, and posted my woes here:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/628729-b-head-saga-not-good-weekend.html


A warning to all. The later b and 3B (Possibly 13B) block that do not have liners, DO HAVE a different head gasket MLS or fibre, it's different.

Hers the thing, the liners have fire rings and the gasket must clear these rings. The new blocks (II) do NOT have liners or fire rings, so the gasket piston diameter is almost exactly the same size as the piston.


Now if you put one of these on top of the fire rings and torque it down, it tries to push the liners further down into the bore. There is a lip on the outside of the liner to prevent this, so it just cracks the liners in an almost perfect circle, about 3mm down into the bore. I see freak has a nice picture of these "bangles" and when they broke, other bits of poo could have (did) break away and do the said damage.
I was lucky and discovered it while trying to turn the engine over to set the tappets.. A piece of the gasket got mushroomed into the bore and stopped the piston from completing its motion.

Tom has some invaluable tips drawing and part numbers on my post, so, definitely worth a visit, and thanks again tom.

Greg, jou skelm, jy moes dit onthou.
 
not neccesarily a boat anchor
but
probably just cheaper to start with another block.

a rebuild kit will supply you with liners and pistons

i have a spare set of liners if anyone needs them.
bad luck old boy.
 
So, from what you all are saying, I could possibly salvage this motor. However, I'd probably be ahead in the long run if I sourced a used motor from somewhere. Is that the jist of it?

Like I said, my initial thought was this motor was done for. If the damage had been less, I would have rebuilt it just for the longevity of the motor and not having to deal with a used motor with unknown history.

On a side note, if I run up to Vancouver and buy a used engine from say EBI, do I have to pay duties or anything like that when I cross back into the US?

Thanks!

:cheers:
 
you have nothing to lose, tear it down, get it inspected, price out a rebuild kit (Radd Cruisers) and compare with what you might get used with the idea of rebuilding it.
now just cause a 3B has excellent compression doesn't neccesarily make it a good engine:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/70-series-tech/556189-1985-bj70-cnd-refubishing-modifications.html
near the end of the thread there is pics and a write up of what i found with it. the compression 420 across the board.
educational reading.
 
Thanks for all the help guys. I'll tear it down and see what I find. If it is salvageable, I'll rebuild.

:cheers:
 
What a nightmare :eek:

I would not rebuild but depending on your $$ a rebuild might be possible if you really want to.
Most of the engine parts are now in the wrong place (and have the wrong size :doh: )

If the oil channels are filled with them the new stuff will go the same way.

I had a 1150 cc gsx motorcycle +engine that seized (and ate) the bigend bearings and after a rebuild it trashed itself while dragracing.
(I gave the bad engine away so not my bad luck afterall, I bought it only for the frame, replaced with gsx-r)

The parts must have hated the lockup, the heat, you :grinpimp:
I dont know what these engines cost overthere and if you buy a lemon you have two boat-anchors so I understand your hesitation on that route.
 
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Kyle

If I remember, duty on parts is minimal somewhere around 2%.

If you decide to head up north be sure to let me know and you can stay with us to make the drive home a little more bearable. We are about 2hrs north of Seattle and about the same from BC.

You might find that buying a complete donor rig is a cheap option and you could possibly drive the rig to see how the motor runs...

Tony
 

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