Instrument Cluster Gauges All Dead Twice

[CameraCruiser]

Ok,

All of my instrument gauges all died at the same time (gas, odometer, temp, fuel, etc.) so I knew it was a fuse, and sure enough, the 15 amp fuse under the steering wheel was blown.

Simple fix. I replaced the fuse.

Then within 24 hours it has blown again.

The only thing that I have added is a TomTom GPS (which is great). It gets its power from the 12 volt adapter to USB thing on the TomTom.

I am going to unplug that, but I would think that the 12 volt would have zero problem with this.

Any ideas?

 

[ToyotaDon]

Sometimes the power plug will get pushed a little bit sideway and short out inside the power outlet.
I've usually seen this happen with certain designs of power cables, when the ground contact is almost flush with the end where the positive contact sticks out.

 

[e9999]

good idea to investigate this more thoroughly. Good call. A fuse blowing is indication of a problem to be addressed, indeed, not just of the need to replace the fuse.

 

[CameraCruiser]

Sometimes the power plug will get pushed a little bit sideway and short out inside the power outlet.
I've usually seen this happen with certain designs of power cables, when the ground contact is almost flush with the end where the positive contact sticks out.

Thanks for the idea. I will check it out. I figured it had to be something like this since I have never blown a fuse until the tomtom was plugged in.

Thanks

 

[CameraCruiser]

Electrical problem much worse now.

First I thought I hosed something plugging in the TomTom GPS into the 12 volt adapter. The unfunny thing is that after replacing the fuse the check engine light was on. So I thought maybe it was something funky so I disconnected the battery to reset the light. That worked, or so I thought.

A couple of days goes by and I decide to temp fate again. Plus Tom Tom in and no problem. Press the button to close the rear side vents and blink all the guages go out again. Hmmm....

Well I have places to go and things to do so I figure I can wait another day to resolve this, but while driving my radio starts going off and on so I turn that off (beginning to worry), then the Cruiser starts running kind of rough, surging, then almost stalling. OK think quick, what else is running, the AC. Kill that and no improvement, kill the fans and boom instant improvement. Power seems to be back and I limp home. Buy the time I was in the driveway it was running rough. Got it stopped and it seemed hotter than normal.

Tried a restart and nada, just the wimp click, click, click as the starter tries to engage.

So, get another fuse and now the the check engine light is on and the Automatic Transmission Hot light is on!

What has happened? Can this just be some weird alternator thing? I can't imagine that my engine, tranny, and electrical are all going at one time, but it definatly had a smell to it that I was not used to when I shut it down.

One thing to add. All O2 sensors were replaced in August 07, just a few months back, as well as plugs, engine oil, filter, and air filter.

Any warm thoughts for the holidays???

 

[WaterCruiser]

what condition is your battery? primary wiring & connections to the battery?

 

[mudlover]

check the grounding

 

[CameraCruiser]

what condition is your battery? primary wiring & connections to the battery?

Very good question. My cables are corrosion free, so that is good. I took the battery, an economy version, from the previous owner into to a local autozone that checks batteries and alternators for free. It instantly showed two dead cells and subsequently failed the battery test.

I left with a 5 year battery wondering if this would restore order to the Cruiser. Sure enough, 15 minutes later and everything seems to be back in order. I have not plugged the TomTom back in yet, even though I now feel that this was a big coincidence that things started to get funky right after plugging it in.

I went back to Autozone and they tested the Alternator too. It came back fine and showing 13.5 amps at the battery with the engine running. Whatever machine they had did a few more tests and everything came back fine.

So now the question to all of the electrical experts here:
Can a bad battery cause all of these problems? I understand it not being able start the Cruiser, but man was it weird just losing power and having the radio act up all of a sudden while driving. I thought the Alternator would supply all the required juice as long as the motor was running.

Heck, maybe the failed battery was what was causing the short? or lost connection so that even though the alternator was doing its thing, the batter was preventing the juice from getting to its proper destination.

Any additional thouhts?

Thanks,

Rob

 

[NMuzj100]

A bad battery will cause all kinds of problems. My dad just had a new batteryfrom Pepboys in his Camry catch on fire and burn all the cables. If a passing motorist hadn't stopped with an extinguisher then the whole engine would likely have burned.

 

[chadiln]

Depending on what additional electrical equipment you have installed in your truck (aftermarket stereo, amps, extra lights, etc) the battery would certainly have certain effects on how your truck runs.

When I first got my LC, it came with the usual factory equipment (stock CD/radio, fridge, regular headlights). Through the years after customizing with stereo, 2 amps, 2 sets of HID, and running GPS, phone charger, laptop charger out of the cigarette lighter outlets, I was beginning to notice that my car battery wouldn't last over a year. The truck seems to lack the power and felt sluggish.

A couple months ago, my 1-yr old battery had difficulty starting up the truck so I decided it was time to get a new battery (at my wife's recommendation) at my brother-in-law's garage. He took one look and said that the battery I was using was under powered. He recommended a dry type battery with deep cycle rated at 120 amps.

Now the truck runs much smoother, and so does all the gadgets!

 

[uHu]

...So now the question to all of the electrical experts here:
Can a bad battery cause all of these problems? I understand it not being able start the Cruiser, but man was it weird just losing power and having the radio act up all of a sudden while driving. I thought the Alternator would supply all the required juice as long as the motor was running.

Heck, maybe the failed battery was what was causing the short? or lost connection so that even though the alternator was doing its thing, the batter was preventing the juice from getting to its proper destination.

Any additional thouhts?

Thanks,

Rob

If two of your cells were shorted, you would have a nominal voltage of 8 volts instead of 12. When the electric supply is 8 to 10 volts instead of 12 to 14, it will certainly give you problems. (It's like your 115 v mains going down to 77)
Additionally, the alternator will sense that the voltage is to low and start pouring out its amperes in order to get the battery back up to 12 volts. This will turn the still operating cells in the battery into gas pretty quickly. You could then smell both gas from the battery and a hot, overworked alternator.

 

[lextechautomotive]

Hello forum, I am a newbie to the forum, but also a LC enthusiast. I have been a LEXUS/TOYOTA Technician since 1985. 85-92 as A Toyota Technician and 92-06 as a Lexus Master Diagnostic Specialist. Left the dealership end of 06 and opened my own Lexus/Toyota Shop here in Charleston S.C. As to your problem with your gauges going out. which fuse are you replacing? Low battery voltage will cause the vehicle to die out, stall, gauges flickering etc... but not a fuse to blow. Has the windshield ever been replaced? If so the side mouldings on the outside of the glass, if not riveted back on correctly will allow water to enter the w/shield pillar post and allow water to drip directly onto the J/Box#1 and cause numerous electrical problems.
Glenn
1994 200k
1994 165k

 

[WaterCruiser]

...It instantly showed two dead cells and subsequently failed the battery test...

Rob - the alternator has a limit on how much current it can deliver continuously; assuming you have a healthy battery, the additional demand of the Tom-Tom should not have caused a problem - a weak battery may have pushed things over the edge. That doesn't fully explain 2 dead cells... perhaps someone else can help on that.

The charging loop is intended to maintain voltage stability, nominally a little over 13V, while providing sufficient current to all the doo-dads. So when a 12V battery loses 2 (of 6, likely in your case) cells, it behaves like an 8V battery. This is bad ju-ju... the charging circuitry/alternator work overtime trying to get the system voltage back within limits (generally a minimum of 9.2-9.6V) but it will *never* get there. As things heat up (literally) the thermal time constants of all the charging components make the situation worse faster. This would explain, too, why you couldn't even crank the engine.

Also, the rest of the vehicles' electrical system - much of which is sensitive to undervoltage - can't get sufficient operating voltage. Also, some circuits respond to insufficient voltage by drawing more current, which would blow a fuse if not outright killing a component. When you have a complex set of hybrid circuits involving logic and analog devices, an undervoltage condition presents wierd & un-nerving manifestations. The circuits generally have safeguards and capacitance to handle much of this so you're probably ok. I'm thinking that your alternator suffered the most stress in all of this. If a logic device had failed (like an ECU), we'd all be reading about more critical problems in your post.

The question remains, "What was the root cause?". You want to address the illness, not the symptoms, right? I would guess that the battery was relatively old and suffering from acid stratification, so when you added the Tom-Tom the system's current margin went negative and started the recharge failure cascade. Your driving patterns may also be a factor in this: if you tend toward many relatively short trips, a weakened battery never has a chance to adequately recharge (if a lead-acid battery consistently remains below ~80% it will start failing quickly). An alternate scenario (which recognizes the 2 failed cells) was that one of the cell's plates fractured. Economy batteries use thinner, less-expensive lead plate alloys which aren't designed for longevity... their plates fail unpredictably from the onset of fatigue fractures, resulting in an immediate internal short-circuit within the battery & a relatively large system voltage & current transient. The alternator would have responded with an aggressive momentary over-voltage output, which may also have caused the 15A fuse to blow. This is just a guess on my part as the conditions aren't fully known. I *don't* recommend you pursue this, but theoretically the guts of your (now-replaced) battery would provide the evidence needed to determine root cause.

It sounds like everything returned to normal once you replaced the battery. You might consider taking your LC in for a thorough electrical & charging system diagnostic to confirm there are no latent problems. If you plan to continue adding accessories I strongly suggest you add a 2nd battery to your system - lot's of info in this Forum on how-to's and there are several configurations to consider. And/or upgrade your Alternator with one that delivers a higher level of continuous current.

Hope this helps

 

[CameraCruiser]

Hello forum, I am a newbie to the forum, but also a LC enthusiast. I have been a LEXUS/TOYOTA Technician since 1985. 85-92 as A Toyota Technician and 92-06 as a Lexus Master Diagnostic Specialist. Left the dealership end of 06 and opened my own Lexus/Toyota Shop here in Charleston S.C. As to your problem with your gauges going out. which fuse are you replacing? Low battery voltage will cause the vehicle to die out, stall, gauges flickering etc... but not a fuse to blow. Has the windshield ever been replaced? If so the side mouldings on the outside of the glass, if not riveted back on correctly will allow water to enter the w/shield pillar post and allow water to drip directly onto the J/Box#1 and cause numerous electrical problems.
Glenn
1994 200k
1994 165k

First, thanks for all the great responses from everyone. It all makes sense now. My Crusiser is pretty much stock except for an iPod adapter and the TomTom, but I do think the previous owner had a junk battery in it.

The interesting thing is that Glenn some how found something very interesting, and I really appreciate it.

About a month a ago it rained in Southern California (go figure) and I felt water dripping down on my left ankle when I first got in the Cruiser after it had rained all night. So maybe the water did come down as explained. I thought that it would not be a good thing if water was managing to work its way down through the dash and on to my ankle.

Since the window is fairly pitted, maybe its time to have that looked at. The window and molding do lay flat though.

So Glenn, if you have any more thoughts, I'd appreciate them. But I think I know what to do next.

Thanks

 

[drdweeb]

Replaced the Brake Light Switch-Tail light catches on fire

Well. This is getting to be more fun that I ever imagine.
Just replaced four lug bolts on one side and was real proud of myself. You see, I just save 8 million dollars by replacing the brake light switch under the steering column. Yes, I did have to bend a 14mm wrench to change it, but hey, Not as bad a the car catching on fire. More about that.
Thought I was wonderful. Yet on the way to dinner, last night, the LC 100 2000 with 160k, running great, all fixed by me, blew the dash board backlighting. Funny smell. Oh well. I now had a good excuse if pulled for speeding. "As a matter of fact officer, I have no idea how fast I am going." So today, after replacing all that lug bolts, I changed the 15amp fuse for the dash lights. The dead one seemed rather swollen and melted. Hhhhhmmm. So I replaced it with another 15 amp fuse and ran the car with the dashlights on, watching this fuse with a flashlight to see what happened. Oh, I had also pulled out the wiring for the old car kit that I had put in there a few years ago, no longer used. As I am typing, I just realized a remote possibly. The installer for the speakerphone kit had, as they do, push two hot wires into two fuse slots as a short cut. (I wonder if when I pulled them out, some of the wire strands were left in the slot????)
I'll check that when I get the LC back from the dealer and the paint shop.
See, while I was noticing that the 15 amp was NOT blowing, good..., I smelled electrical burning. Then I saw smoke near the fuse panel. I turned the car off. Getting out and scratching my head, no beer YET, I noticed that the interior of the LC was filled with smoke. Running around the car like I was exercising, I noticed that the left rear brakelight assembly was really smoking. Remembering that it was held in by two screws after I burned my fingers trying to pop it off, I then fetched a screwdriver and yelled for my eleven year to bring a fire extinguisher (best decision so far!)
Just before I got the second screw out, flames erupted and I was forced to pull the entire light panel off and throw it to the ground. After giving my son person to "pull the pin" he extinguished the piece on the ground and I then directed him to spray the receptacle which was flaming. The extinguisher put the fire out. I then raced to the battery with a wrench and disconnected the positive terminal wire.

Yes, the paint was burned, and a small rectangular box was melted, wires bare, etc.

Wow. And I could have been playing golf today!

The brake light switch was purchased correctly from Autozone, looked the same and was installed properly, the blue fitting which only goes in one way, put in that way.

This "fix up the Landcruiser" project has been less dangerous so far. Replaced a coil or two, three O2 sensors, seven lug bolts the tire store wrenched off. You know, a little more than oil changes and home lubes.

But pyro stuff is new ground.

Based on this, anyone have any ideas about how I inadvertently started my home Chernobyl project?

Thanks, TimK

 

[Fitzo]

I guess I just joined the unfortunate crew of folks who have had their instrument gauges go dead. Driving into work yesterday, I looked down and realized all of my gauges were dead. After driving about 5 miles or so, the gauges came back on by themselves. Drove the car one other time yesterday (home from work) and all gauges were working properly. Got in this morning to head to work again and all gauges are once again, dead. As far as I can tell, the LC seems to drive and shift normally. My scangauge is getting temp and horsepower readings, but no MPH or MPG information. The odometer is also blank. Does anyone know if the miles I'm driving while the odometer is blank are still being recorded? I have not had a chance to look into anything quite yet. I doubt its a fuse since everything came back on yesterday by itself. It has not rained here in a couple months so I don't think its a water issue. I've only owned this LC for about a month and the PO was the original owner and a Dr, not a DIY guy. Everything is 100% stock. I think my first plan of action will be to double check the fuse and then try to make sure the plugs on the back of the gauge cluster are properly attached. After that, based on my research, I'll have the battery tested (I doubt its a battery situation). Below is a link to a pic of my dead gauges and my scan gauge lit up while idling this morning.
Dropbox - IMG_4351.JPG

 

[JayhawkFZJ80]

Same deal. Looked at the gauge fuse and it was gone. Replaced and the gauges turned back on.

 

[Patineto]

Sometimes the power plug will get pushed a little bit sideway and short out inside the power outlet.
I've usually seen this happen with certain designs of power cables, when the ground contact is almost flush with the end where the positive contact sticks out.

“power Plug” any pictures of hints of the location

Also fuse under the steer..??

The only ones I see are really high on the drivers “kick panel” (like 20 of them or so)

 

[ToyotaDon]

The OP was taking about plugging an accessory into the power outlet, so that's what I was referring to.

The fuse panel should be mounted to the dash, under the left side of the steering wheel on a US Cruiser.

 

[Patineto]

The OP was taking about plugging an accessory into the power outlet, so that's what I was referring to.

doh

Sorry

The fuse panel should be mounted to the dash, under the left side of the steering wheel on a US Cruiser.

I take a picture of my 2000 tomorrow row, but the fuses are mounted vertically above the “foot rest wedge”