Information Re: Importing to the USA and Complete DIY How-To (5 Viewers)

[gilmorneau]

The broker I'm going with has come back and said feed back from US Customs brokers is that I cannot import a spare engine for a 93 cruiser.
25/15 year EPA exemption is no longer valid for an engine, valid only for a vehicle.
Unless the engine was built as emissions compliant for the US market ( which it isn't).

Anyone know if this is correct? Is it worth pursuing a way to bring in the engine?

I'm looking into it. I'll post what I find out, hopefully later today. My feeling is that the information you've gotten is incorrect, but I should know for certain shortly.

BTW, just to clarify, EPA exemption is 21 years, DOT exemption is 25.

How do people go about bringing in diesel engines for conversing etc?

Usually via the EPA 21 year exemption. If that's changed, a lot of people will be disappointed.

 

[shanko]

Are we still talking about the vehicle you own that is in Australia? What is the exact year, model, and engine you are trying to bring over?

 

[gilmorneau]

@mudgudgeon My source has asked for clarification re: exactly what you’ve been told about changes to the import regulations for motors. Do you have anything in writing from your broker that you could quote here?

Also, I’m assuming you’re talking about importing a spare motor separately from the vehicle you were previously discussing? Or are you planning to import them together? I.e. put the spare motor inside the car when you ship it?

And I think the Englishman @Shyrock referred to is @chapel gate Maybe he’ll show up here and add some information.

 

[shanko]

@mudgudgeon - Much of this completely depends on the details here. Can you please let us know what vehicle and engine you are trying to bring over?

 

[mudgudgeon]

@mudgudgeon My source has asked for clarification re: exactly what you’ve been told about changes to the import regulations for motors. Do you have anything in writing from your broker that you could quote here?

Also, I’m assuming you’re talking about importing a spare motor separately from the vehicle you were previously discussing? Or are you planning to import them together? I.e. put the spare motor inside the car when you ship it?

And I think the Englishman @Shyrock referred to is @chapel gate Maybe he’ll show up here and add some information.

Quote below in red from the email from my shipping broker.
This is from customs clearance agent in USA, and apparently the same feedback was given by more than one

Extra engine, is a big no go. Unless this engine was built for the US market and the customer can attest to it, it cannot be allowed into country

The law of 25 years old, applies to cars only these days, not the engines”

My vehicle is an Aussie spec '93 fzj80.
The 'spare' engine is the original '93 1fz-fe from my vehicle.
The vehicle has a replacement engine in it (stock standard 93 1fz-fe).

At this point, I'm not going to persevere with bringing the engine. I'm on a time crunch, and it's not the end of the world for me to forego it now. Bigger fish to fry.

It needs major parts for a rebuild. An engine build was going to be a project for the future, and still can be.

I've already had head work done, and put together a collection of parts. That stuff will come with me.
The block will be abandoned. I can source a used block or new short motor.


Thanks for correcting me on the EPA 21 year rule.


Definitely interested to know if things have changed.
I know one of the declaration forms used is different from the form linked on page 1. Not sure if it was the EPA declaration form, and I haven't had a thorough look at it to see what's different.

 

[mudgudgeon]

there is a guy here on MUD that sells engines and ships from England I believe. So there is a method to ship engines to the US. I'll try to locate a post and reply with a link.
From some reason in the back of my mind you may be coming to North Carolina? We have had 3 imports and were never asked for a bill of sale when registering.

Yes, coming to North Carolina.

I can't put together a bill of sale without making up a seller's name & address. Which i don't want to do.

Shipper asked for registration papers ( proof of ownership) and copy of passport to verify identity.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Yes, plan was to load the spare engine into the vehicle, and ship together.

I will be loading boxed personal belongings into the vehicle to ship the loaded vehicle in a container.
I have been told this is Ok

 

[Shyrock]

Yes it was @chapelgate that exports engines to the USA

 

[suzuguru]

The broker I'm going with has come back and said feed back from US Customs brokers is that I cannot import a spare engine for a 93 cruiser.
25/15 year EPA exemption is no longer valid for an engine, valid only for a vehicle.
Unless the engine was built as emissions compliant for the US market ( which it isn't).

Anyone know if this is correct? Is it worth pursuing a way to bring in the engine?

I'm leaning towards "it's not worth the trouble" at this point.

The engine I have is the original engine from my vehicle. It needs a rebuild, and some major parts anyway.

How do people go about bringing in diesel engines for conversing etc?

there is a guy here on MUD that sells engines and ships from England I believe. So there is a method to ship engines to the US. I'll try to locate a post and reply with a link.
From some reason in the back of my mind you may be coming to North Carolina? We have had 3 imports and were never asked for a bill of sale when registering.

@chapel gate

 

[WarDamnEagle]

Yes, plan was to load the spare engine into the vehicle, and ship together.

I will be loading boxed personal belongings into the vehicle to ship the loaded vehicle in a container.
I have been told this is Ok

Take the head off the engine, box the block and bottom end separately and label them as spare parts. Make absolutely sure they are as dry as you can get them. You won’t have any problems. Don’t ask your shipper questions you don’t want to know the answer to. Worst case they confiscate the “parts” but I doubt that will happen.

I brought dozens of boxes of spare parts back from Saudi.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Take the head off the engine, box the block and bottom end separately and label them as spare parts. Make absolutely sure they are as dry as you can get them. You won’t have any problems. Don’t ask your shipper questions you don’t want to know the answer to. Worst case they confiscate the “parts” but I doubt that will happen.

I brought dozens of boxes of spare parts back from Saudi.

Half way there already

 

[gilmorneau]

Take the head off the engine, box the block and bottom end separately and label them as spare parts.

This is probably a legitimate option.

In one place, EPA literature says: "EPA regulates the entire vehicle, not individual parts", but further along in the same paragraph it says: "If an engine is not installed, and is to be used in a car, motorcycle, or light truck, it may be imported as an automotive part. Anyone may import a non-chassis-mounted light-duty engine for use in a motor vehicle which is currently covered by an EPA certificate or will be covered by an EPA certificate prior to introduction into commerce." I would interpret that to mean that only an EPA certified motor can be imported as a complete motor if the intention is to install it in a vehicle. But parts, they don't worry about too much. So if you send over a head, and a block, you're sending parts. If you send over an assembled motor, it would technically need to be EPA certified. Stupid, but there it is.

It could be argued that disassembling a motor only to reassemble it once it arrives in the US is somehow intentionally circumventing the spirit of the law, but in your case, where the motor is literally the original motor that came in the car when it was new, I can't see how that argument would get very far. When you're done, you'll have a car, over 25 years old, with the original motor in "original, unmodified condition", which is exactly the requirement for the EPA exemption. What more could they want?

Another option requires a somewhat literal reading of EPA form 3520-1. Near the top of the form, in the introductory paragraph, it says: "This form must be submitted to U.S. Customs and Border Protection for each motor vehicle (including motorcycles, disassembled vehicles, kit cars, light-duty vehicle engines) imported into the U.S."
Notice how they've included "light-duty vehicle engines" in the definition of "motor vehicles". If that's true, then any 21+ year old motor could be imported under the same exemption as a complete vehicle, by checking option "E" on the form.

All of this is to say that EPA is somewhat less than clear about the rules re: importing complete motors that are over 21 years old (and thus should be eligible for an exemption from EPA regulations). That specific scenario is never spelled out clearly in any EPA documents I could find. What I did find was an EPA information office, which claims to be able to answer such questions. I have contacted them and await their response. I'll update here if/when they get back to me with definitive info. Might be too late for @mudgudgeon but it could prove useful for future searchers.

Edit: the EPA "hotline" got back to me. See below.

 

[suzuguru]

This is probably a legitimate option.

In one place, EPA literature says: "EPA regulates the entire vehicle, not individual parts", but further along in the same paragraph it says: "If an engine is not installed, and is to be used in a car, motorcycle, or light truck, it may be imported as an automotive part. Anyone may import a non-chassis-mounted light-duty engine for use in a motor vehicle which is currently covered by an EPA certificate or will be covered by an EPA certificate prior to introduction into commerce." I would interpret that to mean that only an EPA certified motor can be imported as a complete motor if the intention is to install it in a vehicle. But parts, they don't worry about too much. So if you send over a head, and a block, you're sending parts. If you send over an assembled motor, it would technically need to be EPA certified. Stupid, but there it is.

It could be argued that disassembling a motor only to reassemble it once it arrives in the US is somehow intentionally circumventing the spirit of the law, but in your case, where the motor is literally the original motor that came in the car when it was new, I can't see how that argument would get very far. When you're done, you'll have a car, over 25 years old, with the original motor in "original, unmodified condition", which is exactly the requirement for the EPA exemption. What more could they want?

Another option requires a somewhat literal reading of EPA form 3520-1. Near the top of the form, in the introductory paragraph, it says: "This form must be submitted to U.S. Customs and Border Protection for each motor vehicle (including motorcycles, disassembled vehicles, kit cars, light-duty vehicle engines) imported into the U.S."
Notice how they've included "light-duty vehicle engines" in the definition of "motor vehicles". If that's true, then any 21+ year old motor could be imported under the same exemption as a complete vehicle, by checking option "E" on the form.

All of this is to say that EPA is somewhat less than clear about the rules re: importing complete motors that are over 21 years old (and thus should be eligible for an exemption from EPA regulations). That specific scenario is never spelled out clearly in any EPA documents I could find. What I did find was an EPA information office, which claims to be able to answer such questions. I have contacted them and await their response. I'll update here if/when they get back to me with definitive info. Might be too late for @mudgudgeon but it could prove useful for future searchers.

Like the BATF and pretty much all government entities, they want it to be as ambiguous as possible, so they can interpret it to suit their needs at any given time.

 

[mudgudgeon]

This is probably a legitimate option.

In one place, EPA literature says: "EPA regulates the entire vehicle, not individual parts", but further along in the same paragraph it says: "If an engine is not installed, and is to be used in a car, motorcycle, or light truck, it may be imported as an automotive part. Anyone may import a non-chassis-mounted light-duty engine for use in a motor vehicle which is currently covered by an EPA certificate or will be covered by an EPA certificate prior to introduction into commerce." I would interpret that to mean that only an EPA certified motor can be imported as a complete motor if the intention is to install it in a vehicle. But parts, they don't worry about too much. So if you send over a head, and a block, you're sending parts. If you send over an assembled motor, it would technically need to be EPA certified. Stupid, but there it is.

It could be argued that disassembling a motor only to reassemble it once it arrives in the US is somehow intentionally circumventing the spirit of the law, but in your case, where the motor is literally the original motor that came in the car when it was new, I can't see how that argument would get very far. When you're done, you'll have a car, over 25 years old, with the original motor in "original, unmodified condition", which is exactly the requirement for the EPA exemption. What more could they want?

Another option requires a somewhat literal reading of EPA form 3520-1. Near the top of the form, in the introductory paragraph, it says: "This form must be submitted to U.S. Customs and Border Protection for each motor vehicle (including motorcycles, disassembled vehicles, kit cars, light-duty vehicle engines) imported into the U.S."
Notice how they've included "light-duty vehicle engines" in the definition of "motor vehicles". If that's true, then any 21+ year old motor could be imported under the same exemption as a complete vehicle, by checking option "E" on the form.

All of this is to say that EPA is somewhat less than clear about the rules re: importing complete motors that are over 21 years old (and thus should be eligible for an exemption from EPA regulations). That specific scenario is never spelled out clearly in any EPA documents I could find. What I did find was an EPA information office, which claims to be able to answer such questions. I have contacted them and await their response. I'll update here if/when they get back to me with definitive info. Might be too late for @mudgudgeon but it could prove useful for future searchers.

Thanks. This helps.

I had taken the EPA exemption as being able to apply to an engine also. I anticipated i would have to make a declaration for it separately.
Engine is already torn down to bits.
I'll box the bits separately.
Was hesitant on bringing the block, its the only part with a number to identify it.

Annoying.
I'm not trying to game the system, was literally intending to be able to drop the original engine back in it at some point.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

Thanks. This helps.

I had taken the EPA exemption as being able to apply to an engine also. I anticipated i would have to make a declaration for it separately.
Engine is already torn down to bits.
I'll box the bits separately.
Was hesitant on bringing the block, its the only part with a number to identify it.

Annoying.
I'm not trying to game the system, was literally intending to be able to drop the original engine back in it at some point.

You've done the hard part already. I wouldn't think twice about putting the block in a box or a crate and shipping it as spare parts. I definitely wouldn't declare it on any forms and I also wouldn't ask the shipper any further specifics. Just label it as spare parts and be done with it. I don't consider myself an absolute expert on import law but I have moved internationally 6 times.

 

[knuckle47]

I read every bit of these importation posts with great interest and compliance….in fact, I have done it once. Particularly compared to years ago, I had friends who had gone to dmv without necessary documentation, knew the person behind the glass and walked out fully titled and registered ahead of the other lines of people.
Or, visualize this one. We drive up to vehicle inspection site in a clearly un-prepared FJ40 a friend owned. He knows a guy on the dmv inspector line…

Hey Rocky!….hey Paul …. What goin’ on? How’s the family?
All doin’ fine..
A few entries to the computer…. Fully road worthy and inspected …sticker included

Has there ever been an event where a more liberal ‘check box’ has caused a severe disruption to the motor vehicle system across the globe? I do realize that I’m not thinking this through fully

 

[gilmorneau]

Well...I heard back from the EPA import "hotline". Not very helpful. Like, at all.

In my initial inquiry, I asked for clarification re: importing a 21+ year old motor from overseas. The response I got from the "hotline" was this:

"Thank you for your inquiry. The EPA’s age exclusion does not apply to engines, it applies to a complete motor vehicle. For importing a non-chassis-mounted light-duty motor vehicle engine which is currently covered by an EPA certificate (means the engine is identical to an engine in a U.S. certified vehicle) or will be covered by an EPA certificate prior to introduction into commerce. The engine may be imported without a Customs bond required by EPA or written EPA approval. The engine must be for use in a light-duty vehicle (LDV), a motorcycle, a light-duty truck (LDT), a medium-duty passenger vehicle (MDPV), or a chassis certified heavy-duty vehicle (HDV).

Requirements:
● Importer must file with U.S. Customs, upon entry, an EPA Form 3520-1 declaring code "W."
https://www.epa.gov/importing-vehic...1-declaration-form-importation-motor-vehicles
Restrictions:
● Mounting an engine in a chassis to "manufacture" a LDV, motorcycle, LDT, MDPV, or chassis-certified HDV without the proper certificate of conformity from EPA violates the Clean Air Act;
● Mounting an engine in an existing LDV, motorcycle, LDT, MDPV, or chassis-certified HDV that is certified violates the Clean Air Act unless the engine replacement is identical to the engine being replaced; and
● The importation of an engine to be used in an engine-certified heavy-duty vehicle or heavy-duty truck violates the Clean Air Act unless the engine has a proper label indicating that it is covered under a certificate of conformity, or was built prior to 1970, or is otherwise excluded or exempted."

Now, that's all very informative, but his answer is in reference to EPA certified engines, when I specifically asked about engines that are foreign-market, over 21 years old, and not EPA certified. I thought perhaps he had just misunderstood my question, so I tried again, trying to be clear about what I was asking. The response was effectively the same as the previous one, except this time seemed a little testy:

"The EPA’s age exclusion does not apply to engines, it applies to a complete motor vehicle. Code E states “Vehicle at least 21 years old". Please follow the instructions I provided for importing a non-chassis-mounted engine, for light-duty motor vehicle."

Except, of course, the instructions he provided for importing a non-chassis-mounted engine are for EPA certified engines only. At no time did he actually address my question of how to properly import a 21+ year old, foreign-market, non EPA certified motor. It was as if he just couldn't see the words on the screen. My reply to this was short: "Got it. Thanks"

It could be that he's just a mindless robot bureaucrat, and regurgitating dogmatic paragraphs and subsections is all he knows or can imagine. Or maybe he was hiding an Easter Egg between the lines.

 

[suzuguru]

Yeah, that's aggravating. I'm wondering if the 3rd bullet point might be the answer to your question...

● Mounting an engine in an existing LDV, motorcycle, LDT, MDPV, or chassis-certified HDV that is certified violates the Clean Air Act unless the engine replacement is identical to the engine being replaced;

 

[mudgudgeon]

Take the head off the engine, box the block and bottom end separately and label them as spare parts. Make absolutely sure they are as dry as you can get them. You won’t have any problems. Don’t ask your shipper questions you don’t want to know the answer to. Worst case they confiscate the “parts” but I doubt that will happen.

I brought dozens of boxes of spare parts back from Saudi.

Did you have to pay duties on spare parts?

Are duties payable on personal items, like household goods, hand tools, snowboards etc.
All stuff that is previously used, and not intended to be sold?

I've been asked to give value for all the stuff I'm shipping.

 

[WarDamnEagle]

Did you have to pay duties on spare parts?

Are duties payable on personal items, like household goods, hand tools, snowboards etc.
All stuff that is previously used, and not intended to be sold?

I've been asked to give value for all the stuff I'm shipping.

No. I never had to pay duties on anything. Don't quote me on this but if I recall correctly there is no duty owed on any item that you have owned for more than 6 months. Normally the valuation(s) they are asking for is for insurance purposes.

I did pay duty on the two Land Cruisers that I shipped home but they were shipped separately from my home goods (~2 months earlier and it was too much trouble for the minimal duty to try to make them part of my home goods shipment).