Ineos Grenadier (3 Viewers)

[gasman4u]

I'd love to be proven wrong, but aren't DI BMW engines notorious for carbon build up on the valves?

I think competition is good too. On the flip side though, unproven is simply that...unproven. Props to the early adopters, but that isn't a train I like to ride.

If manufacturers (even Toyota) have growing pains when they release an updated model using mostly already proven components, the chances for a totally new model and manufacturer not having even more growing pains is pretty much zero.

Competition is what is supposed to sharpen the overall product to deliver what the market wants. I'm 100% excited about a potential competitor given Toyota's decision to withdraw the legitimate LC from the American market. I know - I can get an LX. No thanks.

 

[bloc]

I'd love to be proven wrong, but aren't DI BMW engines notorious for carbon build up on the valves?

Most DI engines have this problem to varying degrees. Toyota doesn’t.. because in most of their DI designs they spend the money to include port injectors mainly to wash down the intake valves.

 

[chadd7]

I have on e on pre-order. One of the earliest reservation holders in the US (sept 2021). Will share impressions.

 

[40Man]

I'd love to be proven wrong, but aren't DI BMW engines notorious for carbon build up on the valves?


Competition is what is supposed to sharpen the overall product to deliver what the market wants. I'm 100% excited about a potential competitor given Toyota's decision to withdraw the legitimate LC from the American market. I know - I can get an LX. No thanks.

For the B58 engine, BMW added low-pressure fuel injectors to complement the high-pressure direct-injection array which should cut down on carbon build-up.

To date, there does not appear to be any issues with carbon being reported on their newer engines, and they have been out long enough that if it was still an issue it would be discussed.

I'm guessing the valve cover will need to be replaced at 100k miles as the rubber gasket and integrated PCV degrades, and it can be checked at that time.

 

[chadd7]

Check out this side by side video.

 

[Idaho Savage]

Check out this side by side video.

Not going to lie...that thing looks pretty rad.

 

[TeCKis300]

Playa playa has entered the ring. Is Lexus attacking this segment head on? Finally?

GX550 Overtrail trim

Tundra V6 TT, 349 HP and 479 TQ
10 speed transmission
33" Toyo AT3 AT (265/70R18) tires on 18" wheels
17 MPG combined
Middle and Rear locker
IFS and solid rear axle
Adaptive Dampers and eKDSS
26, 24, 22 approach, breakover and departure angles
14" touch screen
8k towing capacity

 

[turbo8]

Playa playa has entered the ring. Is Lexus attacking this segment head on? Finally?

GX550 Overtrail trim

Tundra V6 TT, 349 HP and 479 TQ
10 speed transmission
33" Toyo AT3 AT (265/70R18) tires on 18" wheels
17 MPG combined
Middle and Rear locker
IFS and solid rear axle
Adaptive Dampers and eKDSS
26, 24, 22 approach, breakover and departure angles
14" touch screen
8k towing capacity

View attachment 3344372

I dig it, it also has 112.2" wheel base.

 

[TeCKis300]

Forgot to say this is relevant perhaps as a one-two punch back into this segment. There's strong indications that a new "Toyota Land Cruiser" to be introduced, will be a sister to the new GX, rather than the big daddy LX600/300-series.

 

[40Man]

Forgot to say this is relevant perhaps as a one-two punch back into this segment. There's strong indications that a new "Toyota Land Cruiser" to be introduced, will be a sister to the new GX, rather than the big daddy LX600/300-series.

The 4Runner is already built on the GX platform. So it will be interesting to see the differentiation between the 4R and any new LC.

 

[Adrenaline6]

This is what I mentioned earlier. There is no real place for an LC that is a duplicate of a Lexus model in the US market. It doesn't make sense.

Will the LC that hits the US be a stripped down no frills all out 4 wheeling beast to go after Jeep and Bronco? That is the only logical move left.

 

[40Man]

This is what I mentioned earlier. There is no real place for an LC that is a duplicate of a Lexus model in the US market. It doesn't make sense.

Will the LC that hits the US be a stripped down no frills all out 4 wheeling beast to go after Jeep and Bronco? That is the only logical move left.

Hopefully. I would not be surprised to see the rumored mini ev b.s. machine with a LC badge. If there is not a decent offering with the Land Cruiser badge, I want to see a ft-4wd/center lock and rear locker offroad model 4Runner with better approach/departure angles than the GX, have a bumper that is easy to replace with aftermarket (or come w ARB out of the gate) and still have ekdss. I'm guessing the ttv6 won't be an option in the 4R as they'll use that to differentiate the GX like they did with the 4.6 V8 in the last version.

Toyota Previews a Baby Land Cruiser EV SUV

This cute electric concept car is called the Compact Cruiser and looks like it could be a competitor to the Ford Bronco Sport.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[Adrenaline6]

Hopefully. I would not be surprised to see the rumored mini ev b.s. machine with a LC badge. If there is not a decent offering with the Land Cruiser badge, I want to see a ft-4wd/center lock and rear locker offroad model 4Runner with better approach/departure angles than the GX, have a bumper that is easy to replace with aftermarket (or come w ARB out of the gate) and still have ekdss. I'm guessing the ttv6 won't be an option in the 4R as they'll use that to differentiate the GX like they did with the 4.6 V8 in the last version.

Toyota Previews a Baby Land Cruiser EV SUV

This cute electric concept car is called the Compact Cruiser and looks like it could be a competitor to the Ford Bronco Sport.

www.caranddriver.com

View attachment 3344434

That would be nice for the 4Runner. Maybe they will offer just one trim with a slightly detuned ttV6.

 

[bloc]

This has been debated hundreds of times on mud. Toyota shows no interest in giving the off-road capability even the growing "overlanding" segment wants. The Tacoma TRD pro and trail sniffer or whatever it's called... yeah wider. But purely from useless wheel offset, vs the longer arms GM and Ford used. They had as good of an opportunity as ever to put their money where their mouth was... and we got the definition of gimmick with seats that would be forgotten in two months if not for the problems they'll definitely end up having.

And they'll still sell the s*** out of them.

 

[TeCKis300]

This has been debated hundreds of times on mud. Toyota shows no interest in giving the off-road capability even the growing "overlanding" segment wants. The Tacoma TRD pro and trail sniffer or whatever it's called... yeah wider. But purely from useless wheel offset, vs the longer arms GM and Ford used. They had as good of an opportunity as ever to put their money where their mouth was... and we got the definition of gimmick with seats that would be forgotten in two months if not for the problems they'll definitely end up having.

And they'll still sell the s*** out of them.

To play devils advocate even though those facts from Tinkerers Adventure may be interesting...

I still give credit to Toyota in finally steering harder into this and giving the people what they want. Took awhile for sleepy Toyota as it usually does.

Then again, the 4R, Taco, GX, and 200-series has always had very sound fundamentals and capability. Like the first gen GX that got dismissed for over a decade. Only to become an off-road and overland darling. It didn't change at all as it aged as it always had serious capability at its core. Just that consumers had to realize it. It could argued that it was the masses that were sleeping.

Regarding the longer arms. It's wholly possibly that even the base Taco gets reasonably long arms. Where the Trailhunter doesn't need longer ones to meet its performance targets. Could be that it's the domestic trucks that come with constrained rental grade arms on their base models. Needing upgraded ones for their performance models.

Seats, arguably a gimmic, but I suspect they're going to be highly coveted.

 

[bloc]

To play devils advocate even though those facts from Tinkerers Adventure may be interesting...

I still give credit to Toyota in finally steering harder into this and giving the people what they want. Took awhile for sleepy Toyota as it usually does.

Then again, the 4R, Taco, GX, and 200-series has always had very sound fundamentals and capability. Like the first gen GX that got dismissed for over a decade. Only to become an off-road and overland darling. It didn't change at all as it aged as it always had serious capability at its core. Just that consumers had to realize it. It could argued that it was the masses that were sleeping.

Regarding the longer arms. It's wholly possibly that even the base Taco gets reasonably long arms. Where the Trailhunter doesn't need longer ones to meet its performance targets. Could be that it's the domestic trucks that come with constrained rental grade arms on their base models. Needing upgraded ones for their performance models.

Seats, arguably a gimmic, but I suspect they're going to be highly coveted.

People who actually go outside don’t appreciate the rear door layout of the GX, it’s just that the prices got low enough to overlook that, then as the platform got developed and they start looking cool, it has a life (and popularity) of its own.

I think tinkerer is on point. They missed an opportunity, and it shows where their priorities truly are. From the first TRD Pro I believe they were surprised by the popularity - and profit - of what was a humble pickup with some fancy shocks, a skid plate, and some stickers. They realized most owners coughing up the money don’t actually use the fancy shocks, they just want something that looks the part. And this is on top of the underlying quality of Toyotas Tacoma and 4Runner vehicles. GM and Ford needed to offer real performance to bring buyers over from the Toyota offerings in spite of their quality issues,, perceived or real.

Big T is just giving the majority of people what they want, which isn’t an ideal scrub radius. And yes some users here claim they want 200 quality with a solid axle triple lockers and vinyl floors.. but not enough in America are prepared to cough up the new-car money for that to offset how it would cut into 4Runner sales.

On the seats.. we’ll see. Again, they look cool? People will flock to that fact. But in five or ten years when all that complexity was added to one of the most trouble-free parts of any modern vehicle starts wearing out…

Edit: two posts from me with no mention of the topic vehicle… I’m out.

 

[fjfar80]

In regard to the Ineos Grenadier - I have not had the pleasure to drive one yet (I do have one on pre-order and my configuration came in at just over $99k) but, my good friend has. He led the "The Hard Way Home" which was Ineos' launch in Morocco. He and I have worked together for a decade and is a legend in the off-road community dating back to the Camel Trophy. He's been involved in numerous vehicle developments and brand launches - Jeep, Land Rover, Ineos, etc. He and I are currently working on a program for a OEM right now as well.

He said the Ineos is a solid vehicle - they put a ton of miles into testing it - probably more so than many larger OEM's - when you have Ratcliffe's wealth behind it - I believe that changes things drastically. It does have some things that need to be worked out - mostly ergonomic and layout as with any new product - some people will like certain things and others will not. He did say it handles beautifully and the transmission and engine combination is great. The lockers work well and the suspension is good both on and off-road.

I sat in the vehicle and played around with it a bit at Overland Expo last year where they did the US reveal. The seats are genuinely amazing, the layout of the controls is simple and intuitive (for me) - some will not like the toggle switches, etc.

The cargo area is designed to take a pallet (think NGO needs) and it is flat, wide and tall - perfect. I thought the tie-down rails on the side were gimmicky and I left those off my configuration. Is it worth $100k - time will tell. I have a classic Defender 110 2-door and love it - so, maybe this is right up my alley - and no, it will not replace my 80, 100 or 200.

- Mark

 

[nuclearbeef]

I have on e on pre-order. One of the earliest reservation holders in the US (sept 2021). Will share impressions.

Just placed my pre-order today.

I made my reservation Oct. 15, 2021.
I couldn't recall when reservations opened, but going by your comment; I guess mine was one of the earlier ones?

 

[chadd7]

Just placed my pre-order today.

I made my reservation Oct. 15, 2021.
I couldn't recall when reservations opened, but going by your comment; I guess mine was one of the earlier ones?

Sept 29 was the first reservation date. Mine was Sept 29

 

[Burley]

It's awesome to see other LC guys interested in the Grenadier. I'm spearheading the INEOS dealer here in Boise, ID. We will have our demo vehicles hopefully at the end of August. INEOS is supposed to release the dealer info Sept 7. Hopefully that doesn't get pushed back again.