Maybe its a friend problem and not a grenadier problem.
And few things are more overrated in a light duty truck than a diesel powerplant.
Ineos - Grenadier
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Maybe its a friend problem and not a grenadier problem.
And few things are more overrated in a light duty truck than a diesel powerplant.
gonna be a tough sell at $75k.Maybe its a friend problem and not a grenadier problem.
And few things are more overrated in a light duty truck than a diesel powerplant.
At $50k it would have gone right at the low market Defender and Wrangler...a great matchup.
The white top and red frame are optional. That's about 3000 right there.
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- #44
True.Maybe its a friend problem and not a grenadier problem.
And few things are more overrated in a light duty truck than a diesel powerplant.
Thats clearly not the target market, and they don't seem to haveing an issue selling. They have already outsold wranglers in OZ.
There are a few things I think could have been done better, like the engine choice, but what youre buying is a cab and chassis designed by MagnaSteyr. I had a D110nas and I have G... Having gone thru it, and driven it, it's not an expensive explorer, is a modernized, econonmy version of a G320. (G463 6cyl euro version)
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- #46
Oz folks are pretty smart. Not sure any jeep product would survive the constant offroad abuse they see over there.
Economy g320. That makes sense.
The idiotic factory winch is 4500. Why idiotic? It's custom made by Redwinch to fit the space allotted and will only fit 45ft of synth. so, its expensive, made by a company with no world wide presence, and will need an extention to be handy. Thats kinda ****ing stupid for the usegroup.
It's solid for sure. like a G. Is that solidity worth the weight penalty when other lighter trucks with that payload dont have issues lasting 200k in OZ? not likely. there is a point of no return where you're just wasting money.
I also think if this was being built by say, chevy, and all things were equal, it would be much cheaper. 15-20k cheaper for my build. Ineos has NO economy of scale at all. all the bits are quality bits, but low volume and all bought from another supplier. i mean s***, look at what toyota charges for an LC, and they HAVE scale.
It should very much be your target market though if you crown yourself the spiritual successor to the defender though. Most people in the US fail to realize just how cheap the defender was because of inflated prices over here. The defender was always throughout its entire initial run marketed as a CHEAP, tough as nails, CHEAP utilitarian vehicle. This is clearly not.
Jeep sold over 8k vehicles in Oz last year although I'm not sure how many were wranglers.... but there is one huge difference in a wrangler vs an ineos in Aus vs one in the US.
Pricewise they are very close.
My cousin in Oz is a huge cruiserhead but respects jeeps and says a large consensus down there is that they would most likely outsell patrols if they got them anywhere near the pricing we enjoy over here.
Magna Steyr really hasn't been anything to.write home about since they were absorbed into Stery-Damiler-Puch in 2000. They helped design a handful of BMW and Jaguar softroaders. The G class still.being their only real 4X4 since the Pinz stopped in the late 90s.
I'm not hating on the Ineos at all though I think it's a great looking vehicle and anyone that can afford it will most likely be happy with it. I just, personally, think there are better options at its price point and better options a mtuch cheaper price points. It also just irks me calling yourself a spiritual successor to something and then jacking the price way up out of the range of the buyers of the original. It would be like calling yourself a spiritual successor to the taco (food not truck) and then saying oh by the way our taco is a sushi taco made with bluefin tuna fresh off the boat in Japan and sells for $600 a pop.
Cheers
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- #50
I would say if I was handed 90k and said you had to buy 1 new offroad vehicle in the USA, I would buy an Ineos over everything else available today, including the new taco that just came out, any of the jeep products, ford products or AX4 thingamobobs.
That red winch story is crazy. 45ft - wat wat?
That red winch story is crazy. 45ft - wat wat?
Well handed and your earned cash are two different things though right
Would you still choose it if they said you can keep the rest of the 90k for what you don't spend or you can use the balance to modify the new vehicle?
Broncos, and Wranglers are not in the target market. Pricepoint isn't a target market, utilitarian is.
G463/461
Old Defender
Toyota 7x
Jeep j8 (row)
You'll notice all of those have military sales/commercial use. That was the Ineos intent. Were not getting the diesel, utility wagon or pickup versions here. The US utility market is dominated by our pickups, which are a considerable value when in commercial trim and tough to compete with, so Ineos took a page from the toyota 7x series playbook, and just said "**** it" with those. The US only gets passenger trim packages.
a pricepoint of a product has very much to do with what your target market is and what the competitors to your product is. Again the original defender was about being a tough, cheap, utilitarian vehicle. you can't rule out the cheap and claim to be a spiritual successor of it. Just my two cents
the fuel tank is only 90l and no place for enlargement... I'd say that's another design miss outside of the USA.
They also saved $$ by eliminating analog gauges and keeping one wiring harness. the overhead console is cool looking, but, I go out of my way to put as many guages and controls where I can see them without looking around. prewired switching for accessories = good. above my right ear = bad.
... looks sexy though, and i'm slut for hot. I'll be getting an OBD2 plug in heads up speedo for the dash. I'll give it one last twirl.a pricepoint of a product has very much to do with what your target market is and what the competitors to your product is. Again the original defender was about being a tough, cheap, utilitarian vehicle. you can't rule out the cheap and claim to be a spiritual successor of it. Just my two cents
The wrangler is not in the same market as the IG, G, or Old defender because it cannot complete the tasks. Pricepoint doesn't mean s*** until you meet the market demands. When OZ moved from the Defender to the G as a replacement, they wouldn't look at wranglers no matter the delta. Think of it this way... If you're looking to carry 2000 pounds of mulch for a living, are one of your considerations f350's, f150's, or Raptors? Ignore price.... because that's not the market. which one fits your use? ... well, both of the f's can be configured to the task and are marketed to the buyers, where they can then consider other initial or operational costs, wear and tear, etc, but the raptor is out, at any price. Payload simply isn't its target market.
As far as I know, the only other trucks in the Grenadier target market in production right now, are g463/461, LC7x, and Stripper Gibraltar LC's. None of which can you get here, or I'd have a G461 Kasten.
Payload also isn't the Ineos target market. Being a 4x4 is, and it is marketed as the spiritual successor to the Defender which it clearly isn't because it is missing the biggest part. Price does move you up or down inside a market demographic. The only part the Ineos clearly would beat a jeep at is towing capacity but no one is buying either for its towing ability and interstingly enough in Australia, since its being brought up a bunch now, the tow rating for the Wrangler is much higher for the same jeep as you can buy here in the US. You can easily price yourself out of one market demographic and into another. It competes directly with the wrangler in Oz due to its price point being just about the same. Not so here. Every Australian car show or Car youtube channel has the direct competition for the Ineos as the Wrangler and 70 series cruiser because..... They sell in the same price zone to the same market audience.I'll give it one last twirl.
Think of it this way... If you're looking to carry 2000 pounds of mulch for a living, are one of your considerations f350's, f150's, or Raptors? Ignore price.... because that's not the market. which one fits your use? ... well, both of the f's can be configured to the task and are marketed to the buyers, where they can then consider other initial or operational costs, wear and tear, etc, but the raptor is out, at any price. Payload simply isn't its target market.
As far as I know, the only other trucks in the Grenadier target market in production right now, are g463/461, LC7x, and Stripper Gibraltar LC's. None of which can you get here, or I'd have a G461 Kasten.
However its laughable in the US to market them as a competitor because one is about twice the price of the other. They aren't really going to effect each others sales one way or another.
Its a cool vehicle as I keep saying but too me a huge let down because it was marketed as something it really isn't and being a huge defender fan thats a big detractor for me to wave its banner high.
“Spiritual successor” is a marketing term and should be taken as such, meaning it has no definable meaning…just like extreme, heavy duty, trail rated, and 30-year shingles. People will either place some sort of value on those terms or not, and the marketing dept doesn’t give a s*** about those who don’t (other than trying to figure out what word will make the buy the product).
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- #58
Great discussion here. What is interesting is the price point of the wrangler rubicon and bronco raptor or whatever the top level might be. Neither can really carrry anything or tow. The Ineos is great choice if you need those things. They will sell everyone even at the new price point because it is something different.
@lt1fire No, I would not spend my money on this. At this pricepoint, I would grab some land and an airstream type camper and have a revenue stream. I do not have multi generational caah and $90k is a lot that could be working for me. Heck, I do not even have grand parents. New car prices are different and most higher priced vehciles are based on the multi trillion dollar wealth transfer that is coming. Not to me but many I know.
@lt1fire No, I would not spend my money on this. At this pricepoint, I would grab some land and an airstream type camper and have a revenue stream. I do not have multi generational caah and $90k is a lot that could be working for me. Heck, I do not even have grand parents. New car prices are different and most higher priced vehciles are based on the multi trillion dollar wealth transfer that is coming. Not to me but many I know.
2023 GX460 lookin pretty good right now for $60K if I had to buy new'ish. Will it be the "last man standing" V8 Toyota/Lexus SUV?
Save the 30K for your around town EV small truck or car.
Save the 30K for your around town EV small truck or car.
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- #60
The redesigned gx/4runner will be interesting to see for sure. The new taco has crazy tech and lots of cool arb pieces AND finally rear disc brakes and rear coil springs.