IFS hubs on a solid axle, no spacer, stock rotors and calipers

[zmwworm]

I want to use some IFS hubs on my 82 pickup, but as cheaply as possible. I would like to do it with the directions from the Marlin Crawler site, which I'll repost here:

you need to drill the IFS rotor fixing bolt pattern into the fj rotors I have a buddy at a metal shop help me lay out the pionts to drill on the rotor and then we drilled the holes. It is easy to drill the cast iron and you don't need to lube your bit because of the carbon in the metal

bolt the fj rotors to the ifs hubs and change the seals if you want I did since I was there.And grease the wheel bearings.

Now that the rotor and hub is ready remove all your solid axle FPRIVATE "TYPE=PICT;ALT=Pokinit"from the knuckle except for the steering arms and birfields

take your dust shield drill and 5/16" bit and look for the pinch welds between the spindle holes and drill the untill the spacer comes free about 1/16" thick piece of steel is welded onto the dust shield with the spindle bolt pattern you need that thin spacer. there was only 2 welds per dust shield on mine throw out your dust shield and keep the thin spacers. Now put some black silicone on the knuckle and the spindle 1 per side like they came off, take the thin spacer line up the bolt patter and stick it to the knuckle then stick the spindle the knucle and bolt it in place.Now you are ready to mount the ifs hub and fj rotor.

Now take your 1/2" bit and drill out the threads on the knuckle for mounting the calipers make sure you drill the straight if you look you will see that you are drilling out a little more material than just the threads, poke your 1/2' bolts threw to make sure they fit.

Now get your 1/2" tap and start taping threads into the caliper.It is easy and doesn't take long take your time and make sure it is straight and the tap will guide it's self in the hole. The 1/2" tap is bigger than the 12mm hole and alows you to just cut threads. I lubed the tap with oil to make it easier. Also if the tap binds up back it out a half turn to clean it then start tapiping again. Now thread the 1/2" bolts in . Sweet they fit nice and tight now clean everything and get ready for reassembly.

mount the knew hubs and rotors tighten your wheel bearings mount your original locking hubs and know install brake pads. Mount the caliper on the other side of the ears on the knuckle tighten the 1/2' bolts and take for a test drive.

Sky Man. front wheel spacer kit


The thing is, I would like to use my old rotors and calipers if at all possible. Will they fit using the above method, or are the calipers too small or something? Here are the dimensions of the different rotors:

The stock solid axle rotors are 13mm thick and 302mm diameter, the later model vented L.C. are 20mm thick and 302mm diameter and both have a total height of 49mm. The IFS rotors are 20mm thick and 289mm diameter with a height of 64.5mm.

Front Axle - IFS hub body conversion options - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board


The total height is the same between the FJ and the SA rotors, but the disc thickness is the same between the FJ and the IFS. So I guess the real question is can you normally swap stock rotors and calipers for FJ and IFS ones without spacers or anything? If you can in the normal location than you probably can with IFS hubs, right?

After writing this, I looked at the Sky Manufacturing site and they say that their spacers work with either stock parts or FJ and IFS rotors and calipers, so when put in the stock location the IFS calipers must have the same distance from the front of the mounting holes to the back of the rotor as the stock parts do. But when you have calipers on the other side of the ears, then the distance between the back of the mounting holes to the rotor needs to also be the same. So do SA and IFS calipers have the same thickness at the mounting holes?

 

[pappy]

For all this work I would rather call Bobby and order his conversion gear. Ya, it cost $65 per side, but at least I wouldn't have to go through all that.

 

[jasonmt]

For all this work I would rather call Bobby and order his conversion gear. Ya, it cost $65 per side, but at least I wouldn't have to go through all that.

He is talking about using IFS wheel hubs to widen the front axle ~3.5", not using IFS locking hubs.


To the OP:

Either SA solid rotors & calipers or SA vented rotors and IFS calipers will work for the conversion.

 

[zmwworm]

Either SA solid rotors & calipers or SA vented rotors and IFS calipers will work for the conversion.

Good. Now the question is, how much am I going to spend on a tap set and how many drill bits am I going to go through before I've spent more than I would for just some spacers? I've never done this kind of work before.

 

[toyminator]

You will save yourself a lot of time by either buying the spacers or getting a set of early 80's FJ40 Brake Roters. They'll work with your IFS calipers on the solid axle hubs w/o spacers.

 

[Bogo]

It is easy to drill the cast iron and you don't need to lube your bit because of the carbon in the metal

No. You use lube to keep the bit cool so it lasts longer. If you are making the lube oil smoke, you are running to high of RPM, cut the RPMs in half and continue after cooling the bit off.

 

[zmwworm]

You will save yourself a lot of time by either buying the spacers or getting a set of early 80's FJ40 Brake Roters. They'll work with your IFS calipers on the solid axle hubs w/o spacers.

I don't have IFS calipers, I would have to pay extra for them from the same place I'm getting the hubs. And I don't want solid axle hubs, I want the IFS hubs for extra width to keep my tires from rubbing the leafsprings (without wheel spacers). How would FJ40 rotors make things easier, even if I were to use solid axle hubs?

No. You use lube to keep the bit cool so it lasts longer. If you are making the lube oil smoke, you are running to high of RPM, cut the RPMs in half and continue after cooling the bit off.

Thanks for that little piece of information, now that you mention it I have been going through drill bits like water lately. You never realize how dull your bits are until you get a drill bit sharpener...

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

There are a few links to this in the FAQ here... you may have seen them already....

Front Axle - IFS hub body conversion options - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

Can you use a IFS wheel hub on a straight axle? - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

 

[bkg]

Personal opinion:

DO NOT TAKE SHORTCUTS ON YOUR BRAKES OR STEERING!!!!!! It's just not worth it.

 

[zmwworm]

There are a few links to this in the FAQ here... you may have seen them already....

Yes I have (along with several others) and that is partly why I decided to do it this way.

Personal opinion:

DO NOT TAKE SHORTCUTS ON YOUR BRAKES OR STEERING!!!!!! It's just not worth it.

I agree. But I don't think that mounting the calipers on the outside of the ears is much of a shortcut, it's about the same as stock. Besides, I'm not planning on abusing the front end too much, this might be a daily driver eventually (although that's certainly not why I have it). Is there any particular part of this method that you find unsafe?

 

[toyminator]

By using your 82 roters and calipers you are defeating the purpose of doing the conversion in the first place. Both methods of conversion use a spacer to make the axle wider. The ifs hubs put the spacer beteen the roter and the hub and the solid axle hubs put it on the mounting surface. Technically the IFS hub version would probably be stronger but the difference is negligable. I use a 1.5" spacer mounted to the wheel surface and have never had a problem using 37" tires.

SAS guys uses these methods to equal the width of the IFS rear axle.

If all you are trying to achieve is clearence between your tires and leaf springs check your backspacing on your wheels.

 

[zmwworm]

By using your 82 roters and calipers you are defeating the purpose of doing the conversion in the first place. Both methods of conversion use a spacer to make the axle wider. The ifs hubs put the spacer beteen the roter and the hub and the solid axle hubs put it on the mounting surface.

From what people have been telling me, I'd rather not use wheel spacers (especially ones that use longer studs!)

Technically the IFS hub version would probably be stronger but the difference is negligable. I use a 1.5" spacer mounted to the wheel surface and have never had a problem using 37" tires.

I'm assuming you put in new studs as well. Did you have to check your torque often, did you wheel hard, and did you put a lot of miles on them?

SAS guys uses these methods to equal the width of the IFS rear axle.

Actually, I've got a transmission and rear axle from an 87.

If all you are trying to achieve is clearence between your tires and leaf springs check your backspacing on your wheels.

I've got two sets of nice tires and wheels, and I'd like to keep them. And I would like the added stability of ~3" of width, just a little more rollover insurance. If the leaf springs were the only consideration, I would probably keep my eyes out for a set of wheels with a little more backspace. Normally I would also be concerned about more wear on the bearings and birfields, but this should be negligible unless I'm really hard on the rig (plus have I have a spare front axle for parts).

 

[toyminator]

From what people have been telling me, I'd rather not use wheel spacers (especially ones that use longer studs!)

You have to run a spacer one way or the other or it won't make it any wider than stock.

Mine don't use longer studs they bolt to the mountin surface using the standard wheel studs and then have their own wheel studs to mount the tire to. I run 37" boggers and have jumped the truck on occasion or two and have never had a problem. Mine came from all pro $79.99 pair.

 

[zmwworm]

You have to run a spacer one way or the other or it won't make it any wider than stock.

Not true, the IFS hubs place the wheels 1.5" farther out compared to the solid axle hubs. I didn't want to run wheel spacers because I don't want my wheels falling off, but I wouldn't mind running a rotor spacer because the rotor experiences a tiny fraction of the forces and torque that a wheel is put through (plus I'd rather have a rotor break off than a wheel, not that it would happen). However, it is possible to run IFS hubs without a rotor spacer, and being the cheap guy that I am this is what I want to do.

Mine don't use longer studs they bolt to the mountin surface using the standard wheel studs and then have their own wheel studs to mount the tire to. I run 37" boggers and have jumped the truck on occasion or two and have never had a problem. Mine came from all pro $79.99 pair.

Do you still have the stock studs on the hub, or are they newer? I would definitly want to put new studs in before I added spacers, and that alone is $12 per wheel. In this case though, if I were to get any spacers I would get a pair of the 5/8" rotor spacers and use IFS hubs before I would use wheel spacers (but I would need to get new studs for that anyway).

Also, do you have to recheck the torque on the spacers a lot? I've been told that you need to do this, but I don't really see why (I suspect that aluminum spacers expand and contract with temperature, so they would loosen up more in extreme climates. You probably don't have that problem in Missouri, right?)

 

[toyminator]

Do you still have the stock studs on the hub, or are they newer? I would definitly want to put new studs in before I added spacers, and that alone is $12 per wheel. In this case though, if I were to get any spacers I would get a pair of the 5/8" rotor spacers and use IFS hubs before I would use wheel spacers (but I would need to get new studs for that anyway).

Also, do you have to recheck the torque on the spacers a lot? I've been told that you need to do this, but I don't really see why (I suspect that aluminum spacers expand and contract with temperature, so they would loosen up more in extreme climates. You probably don't have that problem in Missouri, right?)

I use the stock wheel studs. I had to replace a couple of them on each hub because the core solid axle I used had some stripped studs but hey were still stock factory Toyota stuff. I re-checked the torque on them after the first rail run I used them on but thats it. That was seven years ago.

 

[Pat4x4]

Can you use a IFS wheel hub on a straight axle? - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

 

[zmwworm]

I use the stock wheel studs. I had to replace a couple of them on each hub because the core solid axle I used had some stripped studs but hey were still stock factory Toyota stuff. I re-checked the torque on them after the first rail run I used them on but thats it. That was seven years ago.

That's amazing, I can't imagine going more that a year without taking off my tires for some reason. You must not have put a lot of miles on the rig if you never had to change the brake pads or anything. But you live in Missouri. So I've come to the conclusion that the need to retorque wheels is proportional to the extremity of the climate and the type of wheel you have (alloy wheels come with warnings that they should be retorqued after a certain number of miles, so they probably expand and contract more than steel wheels).

Can you use a IFS wheel hub on a straight axle? - Pirate4x4.Com Bulletin Board

Thanks, but I've already read that and I believe everyone there upgraded their brakes, which is not what I want to do.

 

[toyminator]

Its not a daily driver but I have put about 10,000 miles on it. I can't remember re-torqueing any of my wheels and all of my vehicles have aluminum wheels on them. Heck my diesel truck had 100k before I ever removed the wheels to change brakes. The head on my 22re is aluminum and I have never re-torqued it and it has 255k on it and it sees 0 degrees on cold winter nights and 200 degrees during summer wheeling.

As for the weather we get 100 degree summers and 0 degree winters in Misery.

 

[zmwworm]

The head on my 22re is aluminum and I have never re-torqued it and it has 255k on it and it sees 0 degrees on cold winter nights and 200 degrees during summer wheeling.

The head doesn't really experience any torque, and it has a lot of bolts, so this isn't a suprise.

As for the weather we get 100 degree summers and 0 degree winters in Misery.

I guess that's about the same as here in Idaho (we get a little colder), but I wouldn't consider it extreme. I'm pretty sure it's the rapid temperature changes that loosen up lug nuts, when it's slow then all the metals expand and contract together, but when it's fast then the thinner steel (like studs) probably changes shape before the thicker steel and alloys can catch up. I used to live in southeast Montana, and that was a more extreme climate. I remember one time when one of our cars had been sitting in the hot sun, and someone just opened a door. A cold wind came from nowhere and the window in the door completely shattered. But we never had any problems with lug nuts comming loose, and most of our cars only had 4 per wheel, some steel and some alloys. If lug nuts comming loose is really a problem, it must be pretty rare.

 

[ntsqd]

No. You use lube to keep the bit cool so it lasts longer. If you are making the lube oil smoke, you are running to high of RPM, cut the RPMs in half and continue after cooling the bit off.

Interesting reading thread, but not the info that I was looking for. I have to comment though because this is wrong specifically to cast iron and questionable to cast steel.

Cast Iron is abrasive, unless you have a situation where there is a flood of cutting fluid able to continually wash away the chips or dust, adding a lubricant or cutting fluid just dulls the tool faster. Cast steel is a wide range of metals. On one end it is saddle sore from being cast iron and should be machined as such. On the other end of the spectrum is it steel and should be machined as such.

RoT: If you're pulling dust in machining the metal, use no cutting fluid. (Put a Shop-Vac on the work and pull the dust away, compressed air just coats everything around with a abrasive layer of dust.) If you're pulling chips in machining the metal, use a cutting fluid.

Wheel spacers that use their own set of studs should be inspected and re-torqued annually if not more often. From an internal stress point of view the design is a nightmare, so pay attention to them.