I just created an electrical monster - need suggestions

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LockedNLoaded

LockedNLoaded

10 Year
Joined
Aug 4, 2013
Threads
37
Messages
532
Location
Raleigh, NC
Wow I created a little s*** storm this evening. Normally, I never ever work on my LX on work nights for this very reason. Unfortunately, electrical issues are not my strong suit so I am looking for ideas. Currently, my LX is completely screwed and not really running and naturally this occurs right before Logan's Run. Doesn't look like I will be driving into the office tomorrow. All of this is over a light bulb, seriously! Only thing I can do at this point is have a beer or six and have a laugh.


I will explain the chain on events as best as I can. A few weeks back one of my front parking lights went out and I just happened to have a replacement bulb in the garage. Replaced it with no issues, but it made me think about upgrading all the lights on the LX. So tonight the LEDs came in. Well a five min project just turned into a nightmare. I installed the one of the bulbs and I went to turn on the lights so see the difference. Obviously, I should not do this, but I have done it in the past never had an issue. So I could tell a fuse blew out. Checked all the fuses under the hood and everything is good. Apparently, these lights are tied to a tail light fuse in the kick panel.

I came across a discovery that I am not sure if it's relevant or not, but I will mention it in case if it is. The previous owner had some sort of Nokia system installed in the car. There was this modem looking thing and a loud speaker installed under the dash. He had a old school hands free cell phone system. Well this modem thing was wired directly into this particular fuse the blew out. Seeing how I don't have a need for it I removed everything. The best I could.


So I installed the other led and replaced the fuse. Lights don't work. Switch bulbs around and still doesn't work. The fuse ends up going out again. So then I put back the original bulbs replace the fuse the lights still don't work. The fuse is fine, but it does get hot quick, plus there is this clicking sound when you press it. Deciding not to press my luck I decide to remove the fuse so I don't start a fire.

So F it I just won't have parking lights. Wife then asks me to go to the store to get her some medicine. Well this is where it gets really strange. The LX starts fine, put it in gear and nothing happens. The engine light is on, vsc, and vsc off is lit up. Put it in park and start the truck again, same thing. When I press the accelerator, nothing happens, just stays around 800 rpm. Then I notice if I press the gas peddle almost all the way it will quickly rev up. Naturally, the LX is behind my wife's car blocking her in. So I got the LX to limp out of the driveway and she is sitting in the street.


Seriously, at this point you just have to laugh. Anyone have any ideas?


Thanks!
 
Uh oh.

Which circuit was the modem / hands free cell thing wired into? When you removed it, did you make sure everything was taped off / terminated correctly to prevent shorts?

Have you tried disconnecting the battery for a couple of hours, then re-testing?

How about have you pulled the engine codes to see what the light is about?
 
Ahhh, the old 'never do 2 different tasks at the same time' conundrum.:worms: :doh:

Get the CEL codes.

I'd wager that you left an open circuit somewhere and/or have a wire shorting out. That wire is on an important circuit. You DID take a pic or detailed notes of every connection you disturbed to remove the Nokia, right? Good. Then wire the thing back in and I bet your engine troubles go away.

What, you're like the rest of us and didn't do that? That's fine, it'll just take longer to solve.

As for the lights...Check the receptacles and connectors of each bulb you replaced. There could be a short at that end from a weakened part that finally died when you disturbed it. Follow the wires back into the loom to check for cuts along their lengths. DO NOT USE A HIGHER RATED FUSE FOR ANY REASON. Replace the fuse, turn on the lights, get your voltmeter or test light and check for power at the park light socket. No power means you have to keep following the circuit back to the fuse to find where it disappears. If you have power, then test the bulbs. It's unlikely that they're all bad, but you never know. You didn't buy the LED's from an Autozone-type store did you? Don't do that. A 9v battery and some scrap wire or alligator leads will power the LEDS.

Go to www.superbrightleds.com and cross reference the park bulb you want to replace with an LED. Compare the specs of their LED with the specs of the ones you have. Any differences? Are the bulbs for park or park/turn?

The clicking sound you hear is either the fuse about to blow or a relay trying to open.
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
Uh oh.

Which circuit was the modem / hands free cell thing wired into? When you removed it, did you make sure everything was taped off / terminated correctly to prevent shorts?

Have you tried disconnecting the battery for a couple of hours, then re-testing?

How about have you pulled the engine codes to see what the light is about?
Click to expand...


Well the modem thing was wired directly into the 15a tail light fuse that's also connected to the parking lights. From there is was grounded somewhere under the carpet. I just simply removed the power wire from the fuse box and cut the ground wire. I will remove it completely later today after work, but at the time I didn't think it was a big deal because wire isn't going to anything or touching anything.

I have not disconnected the battery and have not pulled the engine code. Normally, I would do that at the part store, but unfortunately I don't have any way of getting it there.

JohnVee said:
Ahhh, the old 'never do 2 different tasks at the same time' conundrum.:worms: :doh:

Get the CEL codes.

I'd wager that you left an open circuit somewhere and/or have a wire shorting out. That wire is on an important circuit. You DID take a pic or detailed notes of every connection you disturbed to remove the Nokia, right? Good. Then wire the thing back in and I bet your engine troubles go away.

What, you're like the rest of us and didn't do that? That's fine, it'll just take longer to solve.

As for the lights...Check the receptacles and connectors of each bulb you replaced. There could be a short at that end from a weakened part that finally died when you disturbed it. Follow the wires back into the loom to check for cuts along their lengths. DO NOT USE A HIGHER RATED FUSE FOR ANY REASON. Replace the fuse, turn on the lights, get your voltmeter or test light and check for power at the park light socket. No power means you have to keep following the circuit back to the fuse to find where it disappears. If you have power, then test the bulbs. It's unlikely that they're all bad, but you never know. You didn't buy the LED's from an Autozone-type store did you? Don't do that. A 9v battery and some scrap wire or alligator leads will power the LEDS.

Go to www.superbrightleds.com and cross reference the park bulb you want to replace with an LED. Compare the specs of their LED with the specs of the ones you have. Any differences? Are the bulbs for park or park/turn?

The clicking sound you hear is either the fuse about to blow or a relay trying to open.
Click to expand...


Obviously, I am learning my lesson on this one big time. I did not take a photo of all the wiring, but that should not be a big deal as all of the wires I cut to the modem thing are color coded and easy to re-connect. I originally did not hesitate to remove it because #1 its a phone system that I already removed the microphone and everything else, #2 its not a security system so there wouldn't be any type of ignition cut off built in. I really don't see how this Nokia thing comes into play, but I am sure I am wrong.

The bulbs are from superbrightleds.com I have used those guys for years and have never ever had a problem installing LEDs until now. These bulbs are the parking lights. All of the other lights work fine (except the tail lights when turned on). However, the tail lights work just find when you apply the brake pedal.

I plan on using my voltmeter to check the throttle fuse and "main" fuse. I will also reinstall the tail light fuse and then check the light sockets to see if I have power going there. I am fairly certain I do not, but I need to verify that.


I appreciate the help guys I really do. Electrical issues are certainly not my thing. I just hope I can get this figured about by the end of the weekend. If not, Logans Run will not happen for us :(.
 
That ground wire very well may be tapped somewhere into a factory ground. I'd start there for sure.

Take your meter and check for voltage on the hot side of every fuse. Quick and dirty check to see if you are getting voltage to the start of every circuit. That's where I'd start. GL
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
Uh oh.

Which circuit was the modem / hands free cell thing wired into? When you removed it, did you make sure everything was taped off / terminated correctly to prevent shorts?

Have you tried disconnecting the battery for a couple of hours, then re-testing?

How about have you pulled the engine codes to see what the light is about?
Click to expand...

Aftermarket wiring strikes again. "That's always the problem" - Johnny C c.2014
 
mtweller said:
That ground wire very well may be tapped somewhere into a factory ground. I'd start there for sure.

Take your meter and check for voltage on the hot side of every fuse. Quick and dirty check to see if you are getting voltage to the start of every circuit. That's where I'd start. GL
Click to expand...


Thank you for the suggestion. I will start there as soon as I get home from the office. I will try to cut out of here around 2 or so to get a head start on this because some how I think this quick five minute project will turn into a weekend long fiasco.
 
I'm guessing that who ever installed that Nokia device needed power so they went and spliced into the power wire on the goes output side of ignition switch.

Go back to where that splice was made and see if the wire is damaged. You can have to get a meter a run resistance down the wire from the connector or if you can cut out that part and slice it.

You could also just do a continuity check but resistance test will tell you if the wire is damaged (shorted).

For that matter, check where all of these splices were made.

Since the problem occurred after you took it out that is what makes the most sense to me.
 
kulangot said:
I'm guessing that who ever installed that Nokia device needed power so they went and spliced into the power wire on the goes output side of ignition switch.

Go back to where that splice was made and see if the wire is damaged. You can have to get a meter a run resistance down the wire from the connector or if you can cut out that part and slice it.

You could also just do a continuity check but resistance test will tell you if the wire is damaged (shorted).

For that matter, check where all of these splices were made.

Since the problem occurred after you took it out that is what makes the most sense to me.
Click to expand...




Well I certainly having fun with this mess. Not sure if this is good news or not, turns out there is not a splice of any kind. The power wires went directly into the fuse box the other wires that were cut went to the phone and the other went to the antenna. Both of which were also cut by the previous owner.

Good news is I have all the crap wires out of there now.

The ground wire was not tapped to a factor ground either.

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At this point I really don't see how the phone system is related these issues. I think it's just more of a coincidence if anything. The power and ground are both out and all factory wiring is untouched. Please tell me if I am wrong.




Now the latest development is she won't start at all. Starts up but quickly cuts off. So I will start checking all fuses again for voltage and test the big ones for continuity.


Now back outside to sweat my ass off.
 
Is there a fusible link to check on your model? This is where I keep quiet because I can't rattle off solutions, but I can listen , read and learn. I'll reread all this once work gives me a break tonight and maybe find something I missed.

As an aside, all the work they're doing to Talley Student Union is nice, Ramon. Internet and cell are very spotty in my little corner of it tonight, though.
 
Guys great news she is alive!!!!!!! I don't understand 100 percent why but she is. This is shameful because I should know so much more about electrical issues. As I used to design install customer stereo systems for years at car toyz. When it comes to ohms, rms watts, peak wats, or fitting speakers and amps in crazy places I am your man.

So the phone system had ZERO to do with this. I suspected that but I thought I would mention it anyways. Sorry for giving you guys bad info.

So what I did was take out each fuse again to test and make sure there was on dust or anything in the fuse slot. I think (just a guess) the throttle fuse was not pushed in all the way, and is think that was the whole problem. Again that's just a guess.

So after every fused tested again, I went to fire her up and she did. Plus, I have throttle not too! So I reset the battery, and all the codes cleared. Let it run for 15 min and nothing came back so I think we are good there.

Now the one issue I can confirm is happening regularly is the fuse blowing because of the led bulbs. Regular bulbs are just fine, but the LEDs are no bueno. So this is a first for me and honestly I am really surprised my first issue with LEDs is on a cruiser. My 92 hilux has all LEDs in every single possible spot and never had any issues. Wiring in that thing is primitive compared to the LX.


So guys I bow down to your superior electrical knowledge. How do I get the LEDs to work. Does this mean i need a resistor? If so, anyone have any recommendations?


Also, does anyone know of a company that makes random utility storage compartments? I have been trying to find something i can store my yellow box in to keep it out of any elements. Currently, its installed in the engine bay away from everything, but i want to keep water out when i am crossing creeks and such. I have been looking outside the auto industry but havent come across anything that works yet.



Thanks alot guys for all the help. I owe everyone beers, thats for sure.
 
That is awesome. Years ago, I had spent two years restoring a 1974 BMW R90 - at the very end, it would not start. I thought it was some problem with the harness and wasted an enormous amount of time troubleshooting. In the end, my dad who was a electronics tech in the Navy walked up and found a connector that was not pushed all of the way in. Fired right up.
 
Glad you got it fixed! For the record, the fuse block test I suggested would catch that ;)

:beer: Ramon
 
LockedNLoaded said:
......there is this clicking sound when you press it. !
Click to expand...

JohnVee said:
The clicking sound you hear is either the fuse about to blow or a relay trying to open.
Click to expand...

LockedNLoaded said:
I think (just a guess) the throttle fuse was not pushed in all the way, and is think that was the whole problem. Again that's just a guess.

I owe everyone beers, thats for sure.
Click to expand...

So, could that have been the clicking you heard? How funny that nobody mentioned remove/clean/test/reseat fuses; we might as well have told you to do an engine swap, but we'll take your beer anyway. :)
 
JohnVee said:
So, could that have been the clicking you heard? How funny that nobody mentioned remove/clean/test/reseat fuses; we might as well have told you to do an engine swap, but we'll take your beer anyway. :)
Click to expand...



s*** I guess I got ahead of myself. Yesterday everything is 100 percent good. Well today is another story. The original fuse issue is back. The lights worked fine with the original bulbs, then reinstalled both LEDs this time and the fuse popped as soon I turned the switch. So I confirmed the LEDs are causing the fuse to pop. At that point it was my last spare 15 fuse. So this morning I go to the part store and get a box of 15s. When I install the fuse nothing happens. The lights don't work. Fuse will won't pop, but it will do that clicking sound from time to time only when you push on the fuse pretty hard. I swear the clicking sound seems to be coming from under the foot rest. Power is not going to the parking lights at all at this point. There is no aftermarket wiring of any kind. From what I can tell the parking light wires do not have any areas that are worn and touching anything. Good news is she runs just fine so it's just a cosmetic issue, but I will be working on this all weekend to figure this out.
 
Check the polarity of the LED bulbs when you install them. Not an issue with regular incandescent bulbs but it is with LED's.
 
Already aware of that. Currently just trying to get the regular incandescent bulbs to work again.
 
Had any luck or need a second set of eyes on it? Glad to help and in Raleigh, let me know. I have been working on vehicle electrical stuff a long time, put myself through college as a stereo/alarm installer. Back in the 90's, we were some of the first folks to install these newfangled LCD monitors in the dash, it was the monster sized sony 4". Haha. If you guys have been around a while, you will remember dashboard stereo and stereo trends, maybe even my smurf blue '76 40 sitting out front. I have a code reader as well if you need it. Let me know.
 
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