HVAC system stumps Dealer (1 Viewer)

[Walking Eagle]

HVAC system stumps Dealer - 2.5 week update

Well - I've long had an issue with my HVAC system. I say HVAC system not A/C cause it's the whole thing that goes dead. Latest thread is here

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/222263-c-relay.html

It started shortly after I got my truck (160K). The A/C would suddenly not work. The center buttons ( A/C - Auto - Recerc) would go dead. Always seemed to be when it started getting hot out. Like it'd be fine in the morning, then after work when it was 100deg out, dead.

Eventually I replaced the control with a junkyard one, and thought I had the issue solved. Only I didn't. Somewhere along the way I punched my a/c drier, replaced it, and the evaporator valve, and cleaned the evaportator and had the system recharged - super cool air, feeling good about life - till the center lights in the control went dead again.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/150183-new-c-components-what-should-i-replace.html

I'd found somewhere on here that there is a a/c relay in the DS kick panel. So, this last time the issue arrose I swapped out every relay in the kick panel. Then all fuses that relate to the HVAC system. Then I replaced teh fusable links. Then I swapped in a manual control from a '94. Still no worky. Finally, I bit the bullet, and upset the wife by spending close to $500 on a new control. Guess what? Still no worky!

I buttoned up the dash, and took it down to the local dealership last night. At 11am they hadn't started on it. At 3:30, I called, and they're looking at it but stumped as to what the problem is. I'm half relieved that it wasn't something obvious that I missed. The other half of me is upset that this issue is so hard to fix. When (if?) the dealer finally gets it fixed I'll post up what the final resolution was. Just not looking forward to finding out that that they couldn't fix it, yet are going to charge 5 hours labor for diagnosing nothing.

Boy I hope they get it fixed - though there's only another hour or so till they close today. Next week is mid 80's and rain - it's gonna be too hot to drive window's up in the rain, and too wet to ride the cycle to work - ARGH!!!!

Rant done - at least until I get the bill!!!!

 

[e9999]

hope it works out!

wow, new $500 control.... yikes! could you return it ?


I can see that they would charge a diagnosis fee if they found a problem and you didn't want to fix it, or if they could not replicate it (intermittent problem). But if there is an acknowledged obvious problem and they can't fix it, they should not charge for their time, I assume?

 

[Walking Eagle]

wow, new $500 control.... yikes! could you return it ?

Guess I could try, but usually electronics are non-returnable. You think $500 is steep (think it was actually 450+25 shipping), retail on it is over $600. One of my local dealers charges retail for all parts. The other charges more than retail!!! So I ordered from Toyota of Dallas - almost as good as getting parts from CDAN. That's part of why I went ahead and replaced the control BEFORE I took it in. That way if it was the issue, they couldn't overcharge me for the parts.

Just got a call from them - still haven't figured it out, they're saying could be 3-400 in diagnostic time. Which I'm not 100% buying - you'd think they'd be able to just check for voltages and resistances and figure out where the problem is. It's killing me that it was an intermetet problem, that I could never nail down, that is now a perminate problem that I still can't nail down.

 

[TX Cruiser]

I'll take a wild guess and say that the low pressure switch is malfunctioning at times. Another thing to look at would be the wires that go to it.

 

[meckles]

If the blower is not working at all and the lights on the a/c aren't either try this little bugger.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-tech/163758-climate-control-computer.html



Last year my auto climate control went out and this fixed me right up. Its not int he FSM but cdan can get you the part albeit expensive. cruiserparts.net also has it from time to time, I think they call it a climate control computer, you can see it int he pic above, its right at your knee under the dash.

 

[Beowulf]

Well - I've long had an issue with my HVAC system.

Just got a call from them - still haven't figured it out, they're saying could be 3-400 in diagnostic time. Which I'm not 100% buying - you'd think they'd be able to just check for voltages and resistances and figure out where the problem is.

I don't get it Heath. As I recall, you got your LX in May of 2005 which means you've been trying to fix this problem for over 3 years.

The dealer has had it 1 day and worked on it for about 3 hours and you're "not 100% buying" that it is a difficult problem to diagnose? If it was as simple as checking for voltages then why haven't you used your EWD and FSM and done it yourself? Electrical gremlins are a PITA for trained mechanics and for DIY guys. Just be glad they are tackling the problem and can (hopefully) get it fixed for you since you gave up on fixing it yourself after spending a LOT of time and money and failing.

[/rant]

-B-

 

[Walking Eagle]

I don't get it Heath. As I recall, you got your LX in May of 2005 which means you've been trying to fix this problem for over 3 years.

The dealer has had it 1 day and worked on it for about 3 hours and you're "not 100% buying" that it is a difficult problem to diagnose? If it was as simple as checking for voltages then why haven't you used your EWD and FSM and done it yourself? Electrical gremlins are a PITA for trained mechanics and for DIY guys. Just be glad they are tackling the problem and can (hopefully) get it fixed for you since you gave up on fixing it yourself after spending a LOT of time and money and failing.

[/rant]

-B-

Wow, you remember when I got my truck better than I do.

I'm not 100% buying that they've spent any time on it. Just not real keen on calling up to find out they hadn't even looked at it yet. Also not real keen on hearing them say "hum, we ain't figured it out" in a scarily beavis and butthead voice.

As far as not having done it myself - I don't have the time. Between work, a 5 week old, a 2 year old, and being desperately behind on parting out the '94 that is eating up garage space, I've just not had two seconds to put together, heck just look at my reduced post count. Which is why I took it in.

Part of hating taking it in, is I don't trust either of the Toyota dealers in town, nor do I apreciate them jacking up part prices way beyond retail on everything. But I also figure even the worst Toyoa dealer has to know these systems better than any non-Toyota dealer. Heck, one of my co-workers husband's works at one of the dealers as a service coordinator and the inside information is part of why it's not at that dealership, the other part is it's 30+ miles from the house vs. 15. If I had the time, I would have taken it down to Muskogee as they seem more competant, and are certainly friendlier and better on their prices, but 60 miles is 60 miles, so I'm giving the local guys a chance.

Called them at noon today to see if they'd found anything when they worked on it Sat. or this morning, to find out they weren't working on it cause apparently the colors on the wire harness are different between Toyota and Lexus - not sure I'm 100% buying that either - but if you have proof it is different, l'll be happy to eat my words. I did tell them upfront that it was the same as the 40th anv. LC, not the normal LC. Just knowing how much is the same between the LC and the LX, I'm not buying the harness is a different part #, it doesn't make any sense.

They called end of day to tell me the tech couldn't figure it out, and they were going to have the master tech look at it - but he wasn't going to be free for 4 days.

ugh.... What ever happened to the easy systems?

 

[Beowulf]

... to find out they weren't working on it cause apparently the colors on the wire harness are different between Toyota and Lexus - not sure I'm 100% buying that either - but if you have proof it is different, l'll be happy to eat my words.

Yep. This has been documented in the past.

"The LX uses different FSM and EWD manuals and may have different colored wires so it's a good idea to use the appropriate manuals if you are a DIY guy."

IH8MUD™ Forums - View Single Post - FZJ80 Vs LX450

I understand the anxiety when you have to take your vehicle in for service at $100+ per hour and no firm estimate from the mechanic. It is frightening. The way that I try to deal with it is that you have to trust that you are letting an experienced guy help you. See if you can get an LX450 EWD for the senior tech. He will probably like that since wiring problems can be hard to diagnose. Good luck and let us know how you come out.

-B-

 

[Walking Eagle]

See if you can get an LX450 EWD for the senior tech. He will probably like that since wiring problems can be hard to diagnose. Good luck and let us know how you come out.

-B-

they got one from the local Lexus dealer. I'll actually post up what the resolution is here since I can't be the only one to have ever had this issue.

 

[Walking Eagle]

Well, I would post up the resolution here - if they had one!

Two weeks and counting - Manager promised resolution today, and I'm guessing since it's 5pm and no phone call - it's not resolved....

 

[Walking Eagle]

Called yesterday, since they failed to call as promised - still no resolution, though they claim they worked on it all day saturday. They came up with "must be the control", which I reminded them was 2 days old when I brought it in to them, and had the same issue as the old control which is in the back seat. Manager took my cell phone # and promised to call by end of day yesterday and tell me if they'd cried uncle yet or not.

Of course, it's a day later and no phone call.

Beowolf - wishing your rant was justified, but aparently my lack of confindence in the dealer is justified.

 

[Beowulf]

Two weeks and counting - Manager promised resolution today, and I'm guessing since it's 5pm and no phone call - it's not resolved....

Beowolf - wishing your rant was justified, but aparently my lack of confindence in the dealer is justified.

Let's see.... 2 weeks, 40 hrs per week, plus another 8 on Saturday. That should be about 88 hours. Most shops around here get $80/hr so that is around $7,000 plus tax.

Bring your title with you when you go pick it up.






... and it is Beowulf.

-B-

 

[gisham]

this thread is depressing

 

[e9999]

you did work out an iron-clad agreement as to the costs for this little nightmare inspection/repair, right?

 

[Riad]

I hope what Beowulf said is not true .

However, my wild guess would be: this is due to a pesky/annoying bad (burn out) wiring some where in the mess. I'd first go through the painful process of verifying that. I'd like to know how stealership has come to that conclusion. What technique/tools/process did they use.

 

[TX Cruiser]

Tell them to check the evaporator temperature sensor.

 

[Sc0-]

Show up with an invoice for lost work and inconvenience for them keeping your vehicle longer than quoted. (They have NO clue, but plan on making money off of it.)

 

[ToyotaDon]

See if you can get an LX450 EWD for the senior tech.

they got one from the local Lexus dealer.

This should not have been necessary, as all Toyota dealers have access to all Lexus/Toyota/Scion service information through TIS.

I'm looking at the EWD on TIS right now. It looks like the A/C indicator is controlled exclusively by the A/C Automatic Amplifier, and the Recirc & Fresh indicators can be controlled by either the Amplifier or Control Head. Almost all the signals from the Control Head are sent to the Amplifier (there is also a smaller part called the A/C System Amplifier, but it just controls the Air Mix).

An educated guess would be the A/C Automatic Amplifier, which I think has already been mentioned under a different name. Of course, prior to condemning any "computer", a check of power and grounds should always be made. If all other functions of the Amplifier work (Blower Fan, etc.) then I would assume the power and ground are okay.

Or the procedure from the FSM for checking the Amplifier is only one page.


Hope they can get someone that knows how to read the EWD/FSM and a multi-meter.

 

[Walking Eagle]

so is this

IH8MUD™ Forums

the a/c automatic amplifier?


Service manager didn't return my calls. Finally I got fed up and left a message for the GM with the receptionist. All of a sudden Eric (the service advisor) called me, guess he was worried he was gonna get his butt chewed for poor customer service. GM called, and had the master tech on the phone with him. They gave up. The GM said "You do know you're not going to be charged for this right?" I told him "Well, I didn't know if you were going to charge me, but I knew I wasn't going to pay for it"

They delivered my truck to my house Wendsday, trying to make nice (too little to late). Thursday morning I go to run to the store before it gets too hot out, see that the dash isn't put together right, and my blinkers don't work! I'm pretty sure I know what it is, they probably didn't plug the hazzard switch back in - I ran with the dash apart once and realized that switch needs to be in the harness for blinkers to work.

Left a message with the GM - telling him he'll be getting a bill for repairing the damnage they did to the truck.

Looks like I need to give CDAN a call on an a/c amplifier...


gisham - yes, this is depressing, and frustrating, and since I've been buisy taking care of a friends kid, who is recovering from facial reconstruction while she's having her own sergury, and now 2 ER visits, and another surgery scheduled to fix what they messed up on the first, and dealing with a 2 month old, 2 year old, and 17 year old sister in law visiting.... I haven't had 20 minutes to fix the turn signals, or pull the a/c ampilier, or order a new one - I'm only 1/2 way in tears, and there is nothing more depressing than a crying fat man...

e9999 - no iron clad agreement, they called the one time saying 3-400, and I would have gladly paid a grand to have it fixed right, but as above, in the end - no payment necessary, at least not from me to them, but they will be getting my bill, which they'll promptly throw in the trash, but it'll make me feel better anyway.

ToyotaDon - THANK YOU! it's been murder trying to get any information on this issue, and I should probably eat the FSM $$'s, but I really didn't want to have to do this myself, I was willing to pay to have it fixed - just didn't work out - though I did ask the Lexus dealer what their rate was when I got a key made yesterday (nothing like loosing a key to the truck you just got back) - $90 an hour - so if the a/c amp doesn't fix it, that'll likely be where I end up - tracking down wires is just not my strong suit, and just looking at the truck frustrates me - so working on it would likely send me into a rage that would end up with gas and a match placed in the truck.

almost forgot - beowulf - my speeling aint' so great

 

[ToyotaDon]

so is this

IH8MUD™ Forums

the a/c automatic amplifier?

That links takes me to the main page.

The amplifier mounts on the evaporator case, behind the glove box. I don't have a way to look up the part number, but CDan should have no problem figuring it out.