how much damage - Brakes.

[hammerheadfistpunch]

So I had a heck of a time this month with my brakes; New master cylnder, new brake booster...turns out the shop accidentally put in ATF where DOT3 goes(flush drum accidentally filled with ATF by the supplier), causing 3 master cylinders to go bad. A shop in Moab (4x4 outpost) got me and and replaced the master again and flushed it out with DOT and it got me through lockhart basin. Now the brakes feel like they are slowly stiffening back up again. I had the ATF in there for about a month. Whats shot, what needs to be replaced? Calipers? Master (thats happening either way)? ABS controller? Soft lines? What say you?

 

[crikeymike]

My first thought would be to pull the front calipers and pull them apart and replace all the seals. They get worked super hard. Does ATF jack up regular brake hoses? I'm not sure. Maybe someone will know that to isolate needing to replace all your lines.

 

[panamacruiser]

metal parts shouldn't be an issue...rubber is the problem...I would replace the things that have rubber in them...or change the rubber if possible

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

My first thought would be to pull the front calipers and pull them apart and replace all the seals. They get worked super hard. Does ATF jack up regular brake hoses? I'm not sure. Maybe someone will know that to isolate needing to replace all your lines.

Im tempted to have them do all the calipers and lines. Its been in there a while.

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

metal parts shouldn't be an issue...rubber is the problem...I would replace the things that have rubber in them...or change the rubber if possible

Soft lines? or just seals?

 

[gnarlytoes]

I would replace or rebuild master cylinder, calipers, rubber lines, and any other seals. Everything not metal. And flush everything. Twice.

 

[Kaninja]

Not compatible at all. The ATF will definitely ruin all the seals and hoses, and master cylinder as you have found out.

Replacement of all hoses and seals, master cylinder, ABS system, valves, and even calipers is highly recommended. You can keep the hard lines with flushing with cleaner / compressed air repeat 3-4x. This sucks.

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

Just talked to the shop. They are putting new seals in calipers and a new master and visually checking all the rubber hoses. The LSPV may be an issue but if it acts up Im just to just t-line it and call it done.

 

[Rivman1243]

The rubber will start (if it hasn't already) swell and leak. Everything will appear good from the outside but be soft and slimy inside. That shop needs to replace anything that has a seal or rubber. You're going to have a nightmare until all that is replaced.

 

[benjrblant]

...visually checking all the rubber hoses.

Sounds like the equivalent of estimating HP without a dyno. "Yeeeeah, looks good for about 3000hp or so."

...That shop needs to replace anything that has a seal or rubber. You're going to have a nightmare until all that is replaced.

+1. Those fluids don't play well together. If that ATF was in there for a month as you mentioned, I'd consider yourself lucky that there wasn't a more serious failure.

 

[Tools R Us]

... Now the brakes feel like they are slowly stiffening back up again. ...

Oil with time will soften seals, causing leaks, but can be flushed out. What symptoms are you having? If the pedal becomes stiff and the brakes drag, it can be from the booster output push rod being improperly adjusted, holding the master slightly depressed.

Be sure you aren't fixating on the wrong problem? Pump the brakes, use them till the pedal becomes stiff, then briefly crack the bleeders open, (if correctly working nothing should squirt out), are the brakes now back to normal? If so, it's the master not allowing fluid to return to the reservoir, incorrect adjustment.

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

Oil with time will soften seals, causing leaks, but can be flushed out. What symptoms are you having? If the pedal becomes stiff and the brakes drag, it can be from the booster output push rod being improperly adjusted, holding the master slightly depressed.

Be sure you aren't fixating on the wrong problem? Pump the brakes, use them till the pedal becomes stiff, then briefly crack the bleeders open, (if correctly working nothing should squirt out), are the brakes now back to normal? If so, it's the master not allowing fluid to return to the reservoir, incorrect adjustment.

Rod is confirmed in adjustment

 

[Dave 2000]

The flexible pipes are rubber on the outside but the inner is a strong plasticised material, I doubt the ATF would bother that rubber anyway. Rubber hoses are often used connecting the transmission cooler in the rad to the hard lines on the gearbox, (engine/gearbox moves rad does not), so not too much to panic about there. Re the callipers, I would do those though, the ATF has a cleaning action as well so may be moving crap around the ABS unit valves?

regards

Dave

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

So the shop didn't put straight ATF in, as I understand, it was contaminated from a mixup with the vendor putting ATF in the brake flush tank. The situation was corrected (they flushed the tank) but it seems as though it may not have been enough. Its hard to say how much damage has been done but I am temped to say to do it all so Im not back.

What is in there specifically that I need to look at?

Whats in the ABS controller?
What additional valves (aside from the LSPV)
What besides the soft lines and caliper seals (and master obviously)

 

[BILT4ME]

You will need to replace virtually everything.

Any hard lines must be flushed with alcohol and then blown dry with compressed air, then flush with brake cleaner 2 or 3 times EACH. Then flush with brake fluid 2-3 times. (Personally, I would replace the hard lines as well....)

I cannot even IMAGINE what this did to the ABS unit.

The calipers, LSPV, Rubber hoses ALL must be changed.

We had this happen (many years ago) when a hired hand poured ATF in the brake master cylinder AND the clutch master cylinder on an International grain truck with air over hydraulic brakes and a hydraulic clutch. (He heard the word "hydraulic" and thought it took hydraulic oil....)

We TRIED to just rebuild the wheel cylinders and master cylinder and flush the lines, but it was not enough and we had to do it all again in about 4 months and then go to the extreme. Total cluster-fork and very expensive.

The shop screwed up and they are responsible to repair it CORRECTLY. There are procedures for contaminated brake systems somewhere. I've actually read them a LONG time ago. (When there were only books.....)

Good Luck!

 

[gandrimp]

From experience, change anything rubber. Atf swells the rubber, thats what you are feeling. Flush as described above.

 

[bloc]

I'd be very worried about the ABS module, personally

 

[Dave 2000]

So the shop didn't put straight ATF in, as I understand, it was contaminated from a mixup with the vendor putting ATF in the brake flush tank. The situation was corrected (they flushed the tank) but it seems as though it may not have been enough.

Given this additional information, I would guess no one knows exactly what was put in your system, I would now change my opinion to replacing all rubber lines/seals.


regards

Dave

 

[hammerheadfistpunch]

well the good news is that it wasn't straight ATF, but something like a 90/10 blend. They have done the work they want to do right now with the promise that if it acts up even a little they will shotgun approach the entire brake system. Frankly I would have preferred this from the start but here we are.

 

[Hornd]

Leave plenty of clearance and drive it with the E-brake, but make sure it is adjusted 1st

The problem here is "You should be good" turns into an issue a month later.
Considering time and labor it might be salvage, but I have never priced an ABS modulator and I doubt the shop can stand behind a used one.