How much boost can 1HZ-T handle? (4 Viewers)

[bigbrowndog]

LOL, Too bloody true. Probably melted the end off it.In fun, mate

 

[Tapage]

first off, yes, he will be sacrificing bottom end turbo action but then a 1HZ has very good bottom end grunt.

X2 that will compensate or at least help the low end powa ..

 

[lshobie]

X2 that will compensate or at least help the low end powa ..

Ya, in the course of a second that truck goes from idle to 5000+ rpm, so he has power when he wants it. That truck was in second gear low when he was on the throttle.

 

[nick4jc]

Ya, in the course of a second that truck goes from idle to 5000+ rpm, so he has power when he wants it. That truck was in second gear low when he was on the throttle.

That is totally sick.. Does anyone know exactly what mods is in that truck..?? Or has he publish it before in outerlimits board? I try searching all day didnt found any of his truck. Maybe some of you may know.. I would love to try to push mine to the limit but of course I need to know what mod has been done to his.. I'm just about half a turn away on my boost controller before i reach 30isshh.. That throttle response in that HZ is totally insane.. that turbo sound like it has boost all the way from 2krpm to 5krpm.. I play that freaking vid hundreds of times.. LOLX!!

Nick

 

[simonliew]

Hi Nick,
l saw in your video background,are you in Labuan,Sabah?
Simon Liew

 

[nick4jc]

Yes i'm in Labuan, Sabah..

 

[simonliew]

l grew up in Limbang Sarawak.now l live in Winnipeg,Canada.
nice truck you have there.
Do you know which shop in KK who can modify and tune injection pumps?
Is Labuan still a free port??
Simon Liew
93 HDJ81
92 HDJ81
92 HZJ77 sold
88 HJ61 sold
92 prado
83 BJ42 waiting for resto
81 BJ42 rockrawler
97 HZJ75 project rockrawler
M101
97 E350 powerstroke tow vehicle.
ARB dealer
TLC import

 

[nick4jc]

l grew up in Limbang Sarawak.now l live in Winnipeg,Canada.
nice truck you have there.
Do you know which shop in KK who can modify and tune injection pumps?
Is Labuan still a free port??
Simon Liew
93 HDJ81
92 HDJ81
92 HZJ77 sold
88 HJ61 sold
92 prado
83 BJ42 waiting for resto
81 BJ42 rockrawler
97 HZJ75 project rockrawler
M101
97 E350 powerstroke tow vehicle.
ARB dealer
TLC import

Wow simon.. I bet there must be alot of action on 4x4 in winnipeg.. Well I dont know if anyone in KK can do that.. But i bet there must be someone.. I heard over at Sandakan, Sabah there has been people running GT30R turbo in 15B and 1HZ too.. I'll be please to know anyone of them.. Labuan is still a free port though..

Nick

 

[nick4jc]

Guys.. as i promise to make some pictures but no vid yet.. This is another 1HZ that we are building.. The intake manifold flange is welded in a 2.5" inlet.. But this inlet is not similar to mine because this is done using billet aluminium and after several hours in machine work you got a pretty good looking inlet.. Mine i got it from some 2.5" inlet that is lying around and cut and weld into mine.. Anyway enjoy the picture.. and the IP is still on tunning phrase..

Nick

 

[hybric4x4diesel]

hmm.. It would be interesting to know what kind of power it makes at 30psi.. but before i get there will try do it in 2psi at a time until i reach 30issh.. So far the engine holds up pretty well in terms of temperature and all.. So i'll keep u guys posted once I got there.. I dont have a dyno nearby and the closes one is about 150km away.. I'll do a dyno when i get the time to go on a trip down to the shop.. it would be interesting to know what is the power level at 23psi and 30psi..

But anyway for the current power level when i were using a stock size tyre it would smoke the tyre easily in 2nd.. now i'm running 35s and sometimes if u gas at it hard during a take off at turns it breaks the traction a bit too.. But I'm afraid of doing it too much and stressing to the drivetrain..

Nick

HI YES we did it long time ago ,running at 32psi with fuel pump upgrade & bunch of other stuft to it with stock internal,on hdj81, taken of seats,carpets,spare tire &bumpers frt & rear , 1/4 mile= 13.5 sec flat.
have fun but increase it 1 step at a time , ok

 

[nick4jc]

HI YES we did it long time ago ,running at 32psi with fuel pump upgrade & bunch of other stuft to it with stock internal,on hdj81, taken of seats,carpets,spare tire &bumpers frt & rear , 1/4 mile= 13.5 sec flat.

have fun but increase it 1 step at a time , ok

Wow!!.. That is an awesome time.. does it being chopped or still a wagon..??

Anyway what clutch did you use..?? is it still the stock one..? How much power can the stock holds up..?

Nick

 

[ForealBoreal]

so back to how much boost can a 1hz-t handle that is properly tuned?
would 15 psi with a proper intercooler and tune be fine for longevity.
What are people thinking?

 

[crushers]

unless you love to haul ass you will seldom see 15 lbs during normal operation. i have run a constant 14 psi setting on a number of my trucks over the years with no issues.
normally you will see 5-7 lbs on the highway, 8-11 on hills and you MIGHT see 15 lbs on a hill pulling a trailer with a heavy foot but the pyro will tell yah to smarten up.

 

[lshobie]

so back to how much boost can a 1hz-t handle that is properly tuned?
would 15 psi with a proper intercooler and tune be fine for longevity.
What are people thinking?

There are guys in Oz running 1hz with 12-15lbs for a couple of hundred plus thousand kms, not actually running 15 the whole time but you get what I mean. Some of them have added the turbo with 1, 2, 300,000 kms on it. There are detonations but alot of guys don't have major issues.

 

[Z()LTAN]

2007 1hz with a GT2876R

2 years @ 15psi no intercooler + 1 year @ 25psi with 2 water/air intercoolers = Much fun and never skipped a beat.

 

[ForealBoreal]

I am thinking I am going to slowly start building up the turbo fund.
I am thinking I might go for one of GBentinks. Install a boost compensator to the pump.
Ceramic coating and a good water to air intercooler.
I have plans....

I really want to do this right.

 

[ForealBoreal]

So Dougal,

I bought up in Jeremy's thread about looking into running say upwards of 20lbs boost, intercooled, turbo'd, a custom log plenum and safe egts. I just don't want to plug up his thread with off topic banter. Lets lay it down here.

If you want to run 20-24psi on a 1HZ, you'll have more issues than just head bolts.
I did the calcs a while back, but essentially 35psi boost on a 18:1 engine was giving similar compression pressure to 18psi on a 21:1 engine.
It will be cheaper, easier and give a far better result to just find a 1HD-T than build a 1 HZ to handle decent boost.
The lower efficiency of the 1HZ also means a lot less power and torque for the same fuel and boost.

4BD1T's don't need any internal stengthening work unless you're into custom injection pump territory.

There are guys out there pushing 1hz, 1hd-t and 1hd-fts and are getting excellent results. Heck even a few guys on here running the s*** out of 3Bs.

Zoltan for example is pushing last i heard 30lbs plus into his 1hz with stock internals other than a turbo, intercooler and a plenum.

A few fellows on the aussie forums running Graeme's crazy BadBoy 2 turbo putting 30-35lbs of boost through a 1hd-t. Probably plenty more out there. I am sure Graeme can pipe up some numbers on how many of those high boost suckers are out there.

One of the aussie guys is running on a 1hz with graeme's new Grunter stage 2 putting out 203hp at the rear wheels...

Gerg on the forum is pumping 25lbs of boost with twin turbo's into his 3B....
Another guy on the forum running a single turbo pumping 24psi into his 3B.
Cody C on the forum is looking into putting TTs on his 3B....

NA TD42s. Guys flog the living s*** out of these in comp trucks.
There are plenty of guys out there running them 20-35 pounds of boost.
Putting out 150-200 rwkw. Thats huge.
Just read on one of the troll forums a guy has over 100,000kms on his running 35lbs of boost.... Towing, comps, everything. Its still ticking.

The Nissans have smaller internals in comparison to a 1HZ. There weak point seems to be the crank.
I am not after crank snapping power but it is cool to know limits without having to spend some serious coin.

So what are really the big issues of running high boost if your EGTs are in check?
So you may stretch head bolts. This may be a concern resulting in a blown head gasket.
Then spend a few hundred bucks and throw in some ARP studs.
I'll be looking into this just out of curiosity and I am sure with my findings someone will do it.
The things won't stretch, not to mention just about every aftermarket ford, chev or dodge running stupid boost numbers puts them in without lifting a head.

So yeah I think its possible without having to break the bank.

Plus why the hell would I go out and spend 7k on a higher mileage hdj81 with 250,000kms + and swap it in. There is still a s*** load of work that would need to be done for what... My 1HZ has 143,000kms on it!

 

[Dougal]

There are three factors involved with power output and engine stress.

1. Fuel.
2. Boost.
3. Injection timing.

Boost alone doesn't kill an engine. But boost gives you the ability to burn lots more fuel.
Injection timing is what finally determines where peak combustion pressure occurs and how high that pressure peak is.

Gerg is running high boost on his 3B. But the 3B pump can't put out horrendous amounts of fuel. The 3B also historically appears to survive better turbocharged than the 1HZ.

I'm not sure where Zoltan is at, it's been years since I followed that build. Early power was low for the boost he was running. This does keep EGT's down, but the lower efficiency of the 1HZ's means they do need a lot of boost and fuel to produce not such spectacular numbers.
The TD42's even more so. But their pistons and heads appear much stronger than 1HZ items.

The ford IDI guys in the US intentionally retard timing at higher power levels to reduce peak combustion pressures and keep their engine together. Fuel economy suffers as a direct result.

If you want to compare a 1HZ+T and a 1HD-T at the same fuel and boost levels, the 1HD-T we'd expect to produce 20% more power and torque. Along with less heat rejection to the cooling system.
Comparing a 1HZ+T and 1HD-FT we'd expect about 30% more power and torque from the FT at the same fuelling, but the FT wouldn't need the same boost.

We've got one member on here still sorting out a 1HZ+T from a piston melt and another new member on here who's just found terrible compression on his 1HZ+T.

IMO if you want to build a diesel for lots of power and torque then you need the following:
1. Direct injection compression ratios. (18:1, not 22:1)
2. Direct injection efficiency. (210-230 g/kwh, not 300g/kwh)
3. Direct injection head strength. (no precups in the way)
4. Alfin pistons with reinforced ring-lands
5. Piston squirters.
6. Decent bottom end.

The 1HZ doesn't score well on that list.

More info on 1HZ limitations in this thread: https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/645879-1hd-t-ls1.html

 

[ForealBoreal]

There are three factors involved with power output and engine stress.

1. Fuel.
2. Boost.
3. Injection timing.

Boost alone doesn't kill an engine. But boost gives you the ability to burn lots more fuel.
Injection timing is what finally determines where peak combustion pressure occurs and how high that pressure peak is.

Gerg is running high boost on his 3B. But the 3B pump can't put out horrendous amounts of fuel. The 3B also historically appears to survive better turbocharged than the 1HZ.

I'm not sure where Zoltan is at, it's been years since I followed that build. Early power was low for the boost he was running. This does keep EGT's down, but the lower efficiency of the 1HZ's means they do need a lot of boost and fuel to produce not such spectacular numbers.
The TD42's even more so. But their pistons and heads appear much stronger than 1HZ items.

The ford IDI guys in the US intentionally retard timing at higher power levels to reduce peak combustion pressures and keep their engine together. Fuel economy suffers as a direct result.

If you want to compare a 1HZ+T and a 1HD-T at the same fuel and boost levels, the 1HD-T we'd expect to produce 20% more power and torque. Along with less heat rejection to the cooling system.
Comparing a 1HZ+T and 1HD-FT we'd expect about 30% more power and torque from the FT at the same fuelling, but the FT wouldn't need the same boost.

We've got one member on here still sorting out a 1HZ+T from a piston melt and another new member on here who's just found terrible compression on his 1HZ+T.

IMO if you want to build a diesel for lots of power and torque then you need the following:
1. Direct injection compression ratios. (18:1, not 22:1)
2. Direct injection efficiency. (210-230 g/kwh, not 300g/kwh)
3. Direct injection head strength. (no precups in the way)
4. Alfin pistons with reinforced ring-lands
5. Piston squirters.
6. Decent bottom end.

The 1HZ doesn't score well on that list.

More info on 1HZ limitations in this thread: https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/645879-1hd-t-ls1.html

We get that you hate IDI.
Its not like I am bashing DIs, I just want good performance out of my 1HZ without having to convert to a DI engine.

Gerg is limited to his IP, currently looking at upgrading his pump plungers to 10mm which should be 40% increase over the regular pump.
Now can the 3B historically survive better because there are a few people pushing it?
Gerg with his 25lbs boost and tows a freaking camping trailer up high the coq here in canada.
Cruisedeisel is putting 25lbs in.
Hustly is putting 25lbs into his BJ74. Yes its DI. We get it.
Buddy in Alberta running his BJ74 on 40s or whatever pumping 20 something lbs of boost.
Those are the ONLY guys that I have ever heard of pushing the limits of a 3B let alone a 13B-T. You don't hear of guys wanting to "push" the envelope on these things probably due to fear.
I think most people are scared.

Now do they historically survive better than the 1HZ because they are cheap like borsch and people are willing to push them. I think so. I can buy a complete BJ60 for under 1500 here in canada. Let alone a 3B, they are fairly easy to come buy for a cheap price.

Zoltan currently:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkR6vEuQCDQ

Apparently his new V8 ute on stock tires, chipped with a big twin zorst is pushing just over 200 rwhp.
The done up one 1HZ with stock internals on 40" tires is WAY quicker than his 79.

The TD42s in comparison to the 1HZ. The TD42 sounds like a sturdy engine depending on the vintage you get.

EVEN THE FACTORY TURBO GU "BLACK TOPS" are running a compression ratio of (22:5:1) These are the most desirable.....
Precups are larger than the other vintages. These are factory turbo IDIs that are getting high HP results... Why can't the 1HZ do this?!?! Hmmm.

Even the ford 7.3 idi came with or without a turbo.....

Like the early 1HZ (pre 98) the combustion bowls are larger (70mm) as oposed to the later (58mm).

1HZ has tougher crank, people still stuff them now and again but I think in better reliability to a td42. I realize s*** happens with everything but it seems to be a high hp troll issue.
1HZ has bigger gudgeon pins
1HZ/1HD-T share the same crank and they are bigger than the TD42
TD42 has a higher compression ratio than a 1HZ.

Either way td42s and 1hz's do better with alfin insert pistons. This is known and is a smart upgrade. It looks to be pretty cheap to upgrade just your pistons and rods to these still having your engine in the truck....

PS 1HZ's from the factory come with oil squirters....
Not all TD42s do though.

Now do you think that the GU's that everyone seems to hop up are more likely modded because they are cheaper conciderably than a cruiser with a 1HZ. Not to mention they come with coils from the factory. Makes it a no brainer when trying to save money on a build doing a comp truck up. I think if 75 1hz utes were cheaper and came coiled there would be just as many people hopping them up like the nissans.

EGTs are going to kill pistons. As you know post turbo EGT levels are useless. Put a max egt of 1200 deg F and if your going to do sustained stuff frick run 1000deg F sustained. You'll be ok just to be on the safe side of things if your scared of pushing sustained temperatures. Fine with me.

Yes when you hop an IDI up its going to use more fuel. In the end is it going to be a whole lot more depending on your HP goals. I still think after everything is said and done with what I want to do with my truck I will still be able to get into the 11L-12/100km range highway.

Worried about cooling. 4 core rad should be a fix. Should be a fix.
The 1HZ's even with a stock rad running 15lbs of boost even the 1HD-Ts don't have cooling issues that the TD42s have.
Make sure your cooling system is up to snuff.

As for the fellow with the 1hz turbo using oil.
Sounds like a shoty rebuild job if you ask me. Lots of factors that could come into play there. Sounds like s***ty compression for him. Glazed cylinders, not seating the rings properly during break in?

Is the other guy your talking about Kevin (wagongear) with his 1HZ-T? He blew a piston due to High EGTS. He was running 900deg F POST TURBO. That is fxxxing HOT.

I don't think you can rule out that the 1HZ is a bad engine in comparison to the td42. I think there is just considerably less people doing performance things to them. There are people out there willing to work with what they have. I am one of them.

Some people believe that even turboing a 1hz is a bad idea.
There are still people that cook 1HZ's running 7lbs of boost saying they suck because of a bad tune. Yeah they may be quick but if they don't have a clue on their engine temps its unsafe.

Direct quote from Gturbo Graeme:

There are several people I know of who have run high boost (25psi) but also high AFRs (~21:1 which is high for an idi) and low EGTS (450C full load) without issue - even in racing environments.

On the other hand, 12psi and 17:1 will kill them.

I am fairly confident I will have a 250-300whp 1HZ (stock, except the thicker crown coated aftermarket pistons now available, and 1HDT rods) running 35-40psi ~ 18.5:1. Cooling to the head will be enhanced. Intercooling will be as good as I can get it.

Sweet.

 

[Dougal]

Lets work through Graeme's AFR and boost recommendations:

25psi at 21:1 AF ratio and 2,500rpm on a 1HZ gives you ~450Nm torque. You need a big intercooler too.

To get the same ~450Nm torque on a 1HD-T at the same 2,500rpm requires only 11psi (stock boost) and an intercooler fitted.
AF ratio 18:1.
The differences are the higher efficiency requiring less fuel and less air combined with the more robust cylinders surviving fine at a lower air/fuel ratio (higher fuel/air ratio) and higher EGT.

So the 1HZ requires 25psi and a 1HD-T requires 11psi to deliver the same torque.
How is there even a question here?

Then we have the strength question marks. See another of Graeme's posts below.

Haha, yes actually, but now it looks like it won't happen :-( My brother is all bummed out about the money he's spent on the race car that he is thinking of parting it out or selling it! So there goes the diesel idea - shame, I had sponsors lined up and everything.

Yesterday I was talking to Darren at "Autpocraft" in melbourne. He works on Landcruisers a lot. He said that 1HZ cranks may be cast...... Suggested the surface quality suggested a difference and he has seen broken cranks (he also said that the new V8 diesel is breaking of 1 and 2 cyls at the rank when injectors go bad and uneven torque between cylinders. He's got probably 5 cruisers on the go at any one time, so see's a lot.

So... I had been of the opinion the cranks were the same quality/simply the same, however perhaps they are not?

If you can find a 1HDT, buy that instead would be my advice - they are a performance engine waiting for someone to bolt a good turbo to and tune.