how is soul quantified?

[ryanCA]

I keep reading in the 200 section all the bashing of the 250

last time bashing got to 38 pages and mods shut it down

real question for owners: If you have ever had a Lc before (40/60/80/100/200), do you think 250 has no soul?

Thats the new complaint from 200 owners

What is a soul in an appliance vehicle? My 100 and 200 has no soul

My 60 and 62 has soul because i fake project them from my childhood to make myself feel better like the kids on instagram

Do any of you feel 250 has no soul? Does it matter in your purchase decision?

Has your 250 been reliable? Or are the as problematic as 200 series?

 

[hoot504]

I wouldn't say my 200 has much soul. What land cruisers have is cachet. The cachet is basically, "I drive this because I'm smart, have money, and can afford to drop coin on something not for the flashiness, but because it's capable as hell". It's basically the "I make good decisions" vehicle, that can also take me anywhere I want, reliably. I happen to think they're badass.

Unfortunately the 250 just looks cheap. Toyota got the message loud and clear that not enough were people willing to drop LC coin on something that doesn't have a land rover or mercedes badge on the hood. Thus they watered the product down. Neither have soul but the new one doesn't even have cachet.

 

[MUDZLLA]

When a new landcruiser ceases to have a dedicated team of designers committed to creating "The Soul of a New Machine", the machine is stillborn... lifeless... without soul. The 250 was born by a series of marketing decisions: thus it was cheap, cobbledtogether, not built to last. Most vehicles in todays age are, alas, born souless.

 

[TWILLY]

I keep reading in the 200 section all the bashing of the 250

last time bashing got to 38 pages and mods shut it down

real question for owners: If you have ever had a Lc before (40/60/80/100/200), do you think 250 has no soul?

Thats the new complaint from 200 owners

What is a soul in an appliance vehicle? My 100 and 200 has no soul

My 60 and 62 has soul because i fake project them from my childhood to make myself feel better like the kids on instagram

Do any of you feel 250 has no soul? Does it matter in your purchase decision?

As someone who's driven Land Cruisers for more than 30 years, I will submit that the soul of Land Cruiser derives from the access it provides to human experiences, adventures, and memories;

1. accessibility it provides owners to explore all roads; and
2. accessibility to the largest number of people to do so.

Historically, Land Cruiser provided for 1 and 2. Worsening luxury bloat across the series culminated in the 200 providing for 1 but not 2. Shedding the luxury bloat, the 250 restores Land Cruiser's soul by providing for both 1 and 2.

Our staid and simple 1992, which was bought new, has gobs of soul. According to Kelley Blue Book, the MSRP of a 1992 was $25,923, which when adjusted to 2025 dollars would be around $65,000 - more than the 1958.

Despite my misgivings about the 250's capacities, I'm still on the side of Toyota engineers: The 250 is all-road capable and will last a long time, it will become family adventure heirlooms, and so it will make more memories for more people than any previous Land Cruiser sold in the US.

It's got soul.

 

[izzyandsue]

I don't get the soul part. At all. But I do think the 250 is an amazing land cruiser and I own 3 much older ones, and get to drive many others outside the US. Haters gonna hate, life is not rational.

 

[Rednexus]

Soul is the sound of my 2UZ-FE with headers, a catback, and CAI, firm shifts from the upgraded transmission valve body, and the way the rig looks with (IMO) the best SUV design of the aughts and tasteful mods. Like nothing else on the road. And, done for the pleasure the operation of the vehicle creates for the driver and occupants. Sorry, but I don't see a 250 (or even a 5th gen T4R) ever having any of that type of soul, but I would see it in a 100/150/200 as they use the same late-90s, aughts, a teens Toyota SUV formula.

Otherwise, as different posters have stated, soul can be gained from an appliance vehicle by virtue of the experiences one has in it, typically with others. But, that soul is the result of human interaction with others and nature, the vehicle is only the vessel to carry the people.

 

[MRego]

If you have ever had a Lc before (40/60/80/100/200), do you think 250 has no soul?

No

Do any of you feel 250 has no soul? Does it matter in your purchase decision?

Yes, it does NOT and Yes

Has your 250 been reliable? Or are the as problematic as 200 series?

Thank god I have no idea, since won't own one. 200 is a POS, like you properly say in other posts.

I have said before and will say a million times again and again. I understand the temptation created by Toyota marketing dept by branding this 250Prado as "new land cruiser", but avoid comparing it with the Wagon series 80, 100, 200 (300). The Prado is comparable with 4Runners (even the new one), GX 460s, 470s, etc etc, not the full-bore thing that we had until the 200 was scrapped. Reality is that we do NOT have a Land Cruiser in the US (LX600 maybe meah?). We have a Prado. Rain on me now.

 

[Rednexus]

The Prado is comparable with 4Runners (even the new one), GX 460s, 470s, etc etc, not the full-bore thing that we had until the 200 was scrapped.

Sorry, but it's not comparable with a GX460 or a GX470. Both have premium/bulletproof powerplants and premium interiors. The LC250 does not.

It does not mean the 250 drivetrain/interior are bad, but they are not Lexus premium and will never be.

 

[ryanCA]

I wouldn't say my 200 has much soul. What land cruisers have is cachet. The cachet is basically, "I drive this because I'm smart, have money, and can afford to drop coin on something not for the flashiness, but because it's capable as hell". It's basically the "I make good decisions" vehicle, that can also take me anywhere I want, reliably. I happen to think they're badass.

Unfortunately the 250 just looks cheap. Toyota got the message loud and clear that not enough were people willing to drop LC coin on something that doesn't have a land rover or mercedes badge on the hood. Thus they watered the product down. Neither have soul but the new one doesn't even have cachet.

Thanks for the post.

I have seen some GX 550 locally and they don't look cheap. However, I haven't been inside them.

To clarify, does the 250 have no cachet then?

 

[ryanCA]

When a new landcruiser ceases to have a dedicated team of designers committed to creating "The Soul of a New Machine", the machine is stillborn... lifeless... without soul. The 250 was born by a series of marketing decisions: thus it was cheap, cobbledtogether, not built to last. Most vehicles in todays age are, alas, born souless.

I didn't realize 250 are unreliable till I read all the owners here having problems:

Keep Your 200

Keeps throwing sensor codes on the dash. Dealer is doing the usual "parts cannon" approach. sad to hear hope your nephew sees the light

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Catching Neutral]

I was mildly curious about the 250 until I drove one. I love it. It fits like a glove. The interior sold me.

 

[rexington14]

There's no soul in a luxury vehicle.

 

[jay3253]

So, does soul mean it is reliable? If that is the case my VW Passat would have no soul but it did and am continuingly looking for one. If it does require reliable then my Honda Accord was dead, soulless and lifeless from new and we taided it for another VW. Then I got my first Land Cruiser it had no soul but it felt so much like home I cried when the transfer case died at 480k. I felt a loss like when my dog died. When I got my 250 I thought I would be whole again but no. It has a soul but it isn't a home it works well and is very well made. It has character but is isn't alive. I really like my 250 but my Hundy is where my heart is, or an 80. Will keep looking for a Hundy or 80 with low enough miles to keep for the rest of my life.

 

[Rigger]

My $0.02: Soul is the wrong word for what makes a Land Cruiser unique. I just think that Land Cruisers have historically been well-built, durable, and reliable. When we experience this, we tend to think the vehicle is being good to us. We ascribe human qualities to a machine. It doesn't have a soul; it's a machine. In any event, I hope that my 2025 Land Cruiser turns out to be as durable and as reliable as my 2008 Land Cruiser, or my 2003 Land Cruiser, or my 1989 Land Cruiser.

 

[Corbet]

The soul of this forum is Tech and this thread like nearly all so far for the 250 is definitely lacking soul.

 

[rexington14]

Frankly, it's just become a "thing" to hate on the 250. Similar to past "things" like hating on the 996 headlights, Mercedes SBC brakes, and EV's.

Everyone's saying this stuff and that happens long enough that it just becomes the default way of thinking and therefore it's always viewed by others as a smart comment to make and then it just continues to perpetuate.

The Land Cruiser 250 has become the poster child example of the modern era where big reliable smooth strong engine gets replaced by small noisy stressed unreliable turbo hybrid engine. I really don't know how Toyota recovers from this attitude, especially with this model. Or if they need to. But I think a decent and feasible first option would be to address the larger issue directly - replace or at least offer the V35A instead of the turbo 4.

And it's sad because I don't know how much of all this is overblown. Because, every time I see a 250 in my town the middle aged woman driving it just seems so happy... (did I say it's become a "thing"?)

 

[Adam R]

Interesting question. I've said for for years that EV's have no soul. They just get you from point A to point B and the 'experience' of it is bland and uninspiring except for those short times where you do a quick 0-60 dash. My 80 with a compound turbo diesel....I would submit that one has some soul. You have to actively drive it, monitor it and you get plenty of feedback from the road, the vehicle and the engine every time you drive it. It's also a one-off and I built it so I'm biased as well. It's an experience and I enjoy driving it every time I fire it up. My 100? Hmm. some soul, but even after 343,000 miles, it runs and drives better than 98% of the "new" rental cars I pick up frequently. Most new cars don't give you a lot feedback these days and they are just a series a parts to move you from one location to another. The 250 I drove had exceptionally annoying NVH so I'd say it's soul was either diseased or possessed. I hated driving it and would never consider owning one.

 

[Rednexus]

Overall cars are progressing to be more and more souless. I saw it with Subarus too - my 2000 Forester had plenty of quirks/weirdness and was legitimately fun to drive with the EJ25 and 5MT. Our 2014 Outback was a better car on paper and wheeled better, but was extremely bland to drive with the CVT and horrible-sounding FB25. The newer ones have an even more detached ethos to them and honestly feel more like a generic Nissan rental than a weird Subaru.

The only modern-ish car I've had with any soul was my 2018 Mazda3 hatch. It looked awesome and had a very driver centric interior, great handling for what was really a compact economy car, and was overall enjoyable to drive. It had more than good enough tech to be a great commuter as well.

Most other modern cars I drive are not enjoyable in any tangible way, other then the fact that they are usually quiet, comfortable, efficient, and have good tech. Our Highlander falls into that bucket - it's an amazing appliance with great fuel economy and nothing more.

 

[MRego]

We complain here that the 250 is soulless, but the reality of things is that WE are, more and more, a rare breed of guys/gals. The vast majority of people WANT a soulless appliance to take them from point a to b. Toyota and all other manufacturers took note of that, but Mr T’s marketing committed the sin of planting the name LC into a soulless car. Which, again, only bothers (some) of us. I am just happy I can keep enjoying my soulfully (if that’s a word) 200.

 

[bj70bc]

solved