turbocruiser said:
Who you take your time and think your way through things????
I can't imagine. LMAO.
How Important Is It To Have Dual Batts With Winch
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Who you take your time and think your way through things????
I can't imagine. LMAO.
Sorry guys, we're working as quickly as we can. Got delayed by three-week lead time to receive stainless steel enclosures. We are building, but it's slow-going as the solder-reflow process we're doing in-house. But we have to go slow to refine the assembly process prior to turning it over to the assembly house where assembly can take place in greater quantity. I have added wiring diagrams and info to the website and photos should be up in the next couple days.
ISOLATORS
ISOLATORS/COMBINERS
ISOLATORS
ISOLATORS/COMBINERS
nm, he fixed his images
Pre-release photo
Just a quick snap. My photography skills aren't so good.
Scott
Just a quick snap. My photography skills aren't so good.
Scott
Looks like the company is getting closer?
Not a bad photo
Not a bad photo
http://www.hellroaring.com/nodiode.htm
http://www.hellroaring.com/nomoving.htm
Hellroaring is out now and works...
http://www.hellroaring.com/nomoving.htm
Hellroaring is out now and works...
desertdude said:
Try running 300 amps through it and watch what happens. We were surprised...right up until we took it apart for a post-mortem. At that point, we knew what we could bring to market was terrifically smarter than anything else we had seen. If the Hellroaring is the benchmark, boy are we pleased.
When comparing isolators, in terms of engineering prowess and efficiency, two critical measurments:
1) max current through the device
2) voltage drop at max current through the device
Everything else is just noise. One measurment which is conspiculously absent on the Hellroaring stats page is voltage drop at full current. It indicates voltage drop at 5 amps (like anybody cares), but what is it at full current? That's the benchmark to compare "apples to apples."
sandcruiser
....back in the saddle again....
how often do people run 300+ amps?
not saying that the pgate isn't a great idea... but ideas have limited usefullness on the trail when you need to winch..... products work better.
not saying that the pgate isn't a great idea... but ideas have limited usefullness on the trail when you need to winch..... products work better.
sandcruiser said:
Your absolutely right....most don't require that kind of current. That's one hell of a lot of current and few have an appreciation for exactly how much that really is. I would agree that most folks on the trail don't require a 300 amp isolator and of course that's why manufacturers make different models to satisfy customers based on their performance requirements.
If we can't make a product better, faster, smaller, etc.....why go through the exercise. POWER-GATE was designed because we needed an isolator for a specific application. We looked at what was commercially available and realized that in the world of high-current isolation and switching, these "top-tier" products were essentially the technological equivalent of rubbing two sticks together. As such, we designed a new line of products that reach efficiencies that can't be touched.
Hellroaring is a neat product, but based upon their stats and our own testing, there was dramatic room for improvement. I'm sure that in five or ten years, someone will look at POWER-GATE, laugh, and better it.
Most engineers would rather give up a testicle than throw away power in the form of resistance and heat. When you've done all you can do, you strap a heat sink to the device to keep it cool. POWER-GATE requires no heat sink...even at 300 amps. That, in and of itself, is amazing. I'm not a design engineer but I know enough about voltage, amperage, and resistance to realize that if you can switch and isolate 300amps with no moving parts and no heat sink, that's a well thought-out product.
I don't want to starting a pissing match between Hellroaring and POWER-GATE. We're the new kid on the block. We'll bring POWER-GATE to market and we hope that it's well received. We are extremely pleased with the performance and it's our hope that our patent-pending "perfect-switch" becomes an industry standard for isolating and switching high-current; we've yet to come across another product that comes close.
What is the price point?
We haven't done much on pricing yet, but expect modules to range from $150 to $450 based upon functionality and current capacity. The OR-ing switches will be on the more expensive side with the basic POWER-GATE being on the less expensive side. We're bringing to market a premium product which is smaller and more efficent than anything else out there and as such, will be priced appropriately, however we're aware that no-one will buy a $1,000 isolator.
With respect to availability, we're currently building in-house with most of the first production run pre-sold to a Marine Corp defense contractor. We hope to have units available for sale to people on the IH8MUD site within 2 weeks, perhaps sooner. In-house assembly is slow going. As soon as we complete the assembly procedure manual, it'll be handed over to a contract assembly house where they can be built in quantity.
Scott
With respect to availability, we're currently building in-house with most of the first production run pre-sold to a Marine Corp defense contractor. We hope to have units available for sale to people on the IH8MUD site within 2 weeks, perhaps sooner. In-house assembly is slow going. As soon as we complete the assembly procedure manual, it'll be handed over to a contract assembly house where they can be built in quantity.
Scott
Bryan E said:
Bryan,
We've been hearing "2 weeks" from Mobi-Ark since October of 2004. Read this thread here in Outfitting for a recap.
Mobi,
We all understand that bringing product to market takes time, but your repetitive promises of 2 weeks followed by months of silence, followed by lame excuses, followed by more promises of 2 weeks.... This gets old, so do us all a favor and post back when you have pricing and when you have product.
One more thing, are all of those Mobi engineers still too busy to spend 15 minutes answering questions from the group about this new product?
-B-
So you expect this to be out in 2 weeks - but the pricing is not set? 150-450 covers a lot of ground. Why put the $1000.00 comment in? Seems like you are marketing percieved value. What I like about Mike at HR he answers the phone, says what is what ,and his product is out and works.
At 150-200 you might sell a few - at 450 - you will be hard pressed to convince anyone they need it.
At 150-200 you might sell a few - at 450 - you will be hard pressed to convince anyone they need it.
Beowulf, Firstly, feel free to call during normal business hours and talk to Frank. Secondly, it took longer than we intended because the product is revolutionary and needed patent protection. We also refined the assembly process which will make manufacturing simpler and cheaper at greater quantity. My excitement and enthusiasm got the best of me. My apologies, but that's the way goes.
Desertdude, We can sell products tomorrow and charge what we choose...one of benefits of being a small company. The OR'ing switch will be at the upper end of the scale so unless you need OR'ing capability, don't worry about the $450 price point. Let me ask you this: how do YOU think the product should be priced? It's more efficient than any isolator on the planet, and it's smaller than any isolator on the planet. What would you expect to pay for a premium product that is without a doubt, better than anything else available? And again, this not just lip service, we've tested the "best of the best" and know for an absolute fact that we've got something special.....what would Desertdude expect to pay? And, I'm sure Mike is a swell guy. Few know and understand exactly what Mike is doing. After taking the product apart, all I can say is that it's an interesting product and I'm sure Mike has done the best he could do. He know's his products limitations, he knows where he's shaved expense, and if he can look himself in the mirror having made those decisions...then shame on him.
Call us crazy but when you sell a product that's advertised to handle 150 amps, then it should be designed to handle that amount of current on a continuous basis. When we sell a product to handle 250 amps of current, it WILL do that. When we say you can hold it while isolating 250 amps, it's not bull****. There's no other product than can do that. Mike is heading in the right direction, but the HR is not there yet.
Just my opinion, but I think those who are looking to save money will go the solenoid or silicon rectifier route. Those looking for better performance with an elevated level of features will probably choose HR. Those looking for the best, the most efficient, the smallest, the simplest, those are POWER-GATE customers. When engineers at a major defense contracting comany went to market looking for solid-state switching and OR'ing devices for a job requested by the United States Marine Corp, they chose POWER-GATE. Those who know and understand power realize that if you can isolate high-current at max efficiency and require no heat sink, someones done some very solid work. Silicon diode isolator...heat sink, Shottky diode isolators....heat sink...HR isolators....heat sink, Mastervolt isolators...heat sink, Cole Hersee isolators....hear sink. POWER-GATE......nope....not necessary.
Desertdude, We can sell products tomorrow and charge what we choose...one of benefits of being a small company. The OR'ing switch will be at the upper end of the scale so unless you need OR'ing capability, don't worry about the $450 price point. Let me ask you this: how do YOU think the product should be priced? It's more efficient than any isolator on the planet, and it's smaller than any isolator on the planet. What would you expect to pay for a premium product that is without a doubt, better than anything else available? And again, this not just lip service, we've tested the "best of the best" and know for an absolute fact that we've got something special.....what would Desertdude expect to pay? And, I'm sure Mike is a swell guy. Few know and understand exactly what Mike is doing. After taking the product apart, all I can say is that it's an interesting product and I'm sure Mike has done the best he could do. He know's his products limitations, he knows where he's shaved expense, and if he can look himself in the mirror having made those decisions...then shame on him.
Call us crazy but when you sell a product that's advertised to handle 150 amps, then it should be designed to handle that amount of current on a continuous basis. When we sell a product to handle 250 amps of current, it WILL do that. When we say you can hold it while isolating 250 amps, it's not bull****. There's no other product than can do that. Mike is heading in the right direction, but the HR is not there yet.
Just my opinion, but I think those who are looking to save money will go the solenoid or silicon rectifier route. Those looking for better performance with an elevated level of features will probably choose HR. Those looking for the best, the most efficient, the smallest, the simplest, those are POWER-GATE customers. When engineers at a major defense contracting comany went to market looking for solid-state switching and OR'ing devices for a job requested by the United States Marine Corp, they chose POWER-GATE. Those who know and understand power realize that if you can isolate high-current at max efficiency and require no heat sink, someones done some very solid work. Silicon diode isolator...heat sink, Shottky diode isolators....heat sink...HR isolators....heat sink, Mastervolt isolators...heat sink, Cole Hersee isolators....hear sink. POWER-GATE......nope....not necessary.
If you're building any kind of list, stick me on it. I'm curious how this thing turns out in reality.
Easy Scott - I see you are passionate about the product, and that's great. If the product is as you claim, then it will sell it self. My motto is buy the best you can at the time and cry once. If this powergate turns out to be the holygrail of isolators, then I am in for a couple. Time will tell.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
desertdude said:
I'm with Desertdude. I have a Hellroaring and tested it and it works. Easy set-up for a non-engineer. If the Powergate is as awesome as you say, whay hasn't anyone done it before? My mind is very open on this topic, and I do need another dual set-up for my 60 series. When will it be ready with explicit install instructions? I think honestly that you will have to price near Hellroaring to sell any, at least at first. Once it's field tested by 4 wheelers, then maybe you can charge a small premium if it lives up to the hype. It's all good though, competition makes everybody better.
