How Important Is It To Have Dual Batts With Winch

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Unlike the MOBI-ARC where we control the alternator's current at levels within the capacity of the control unit, when dealing with batteries, there's no practical way to limit the load battery to battery through the isolator. If you're going to winch and draw 500 amps, don't do it through an isolator rated at 150 amps. You can do it through an isolator rated 300 to 600 amps and roll the dice, but it may be cost prohibitive. We've got an external contactor circuit that can be activated during scenarios where current flow will exceed the rating.

Pricing.....still working on it.

Scott
 
mobi-arc said:
If you're going to winch and draw 500 amps, don't do it through an isolator rated at 150 amps. You can do it through an isolator rated 300 to 600 amps and roll the dice, but it may be cost prohibitive. We've got an external contactor circuit that can be activated during scenarios where current flow will exceed the rating.
But you use a "lengthy winch pull" ON YOUR SITE as an example of a perfect use for the isolator/combiners you're selling!!! Make up your mind... :rolleyes:

So which is it? And how do I use my winch with your isolator? Manual Blue Sea switch bypassing the isolator? Or is this (http://www.mobi-arc.com/highcurrentswitch.htm) what you're talking about? (if so, give us a diagram!)

This product seems really good, Scott. Now please stop trying to make things so incredibly hard to figure out, and just provide us with diagrams and real information. Seems to me that this is a good sample of your target market here, other than the Marines, obviously. And we know damn well the Marines haven't bought anything based on a dribble of information like you've been handing out here.

As an example, here's Hellroaring's information for 4WD folks. The diagram is ugly but useful.

Nobody wants to hear "call us and we'll talk about it" marketing bull**** when there is plenty of real information you could be handing out.


Alex
 
polarweasel said:
This product seems really good, Scott. Now please stop trying to make things so incredibly hard to figure out, and just provide us with diagrams and real information.

And I thought it was just me that was getting peeved. ;)

-B-
 
Beowulf has been trying to get to the real facts since the product was first whispered in the other thread...

Nothing could be more of a valueable marketing tool than this site the phone is just one on one - 966 views on this thread alone
 
Beowulf said:
And I thought it was just me that was getting peeved. ;)

-B-


No you are not, I was too, way long ago, and still am, I can honestly say even if Cruiser Godfather Christo says its the thing, I'll never purchase one for three specific reasons:

1. All the hype, all the hoopla, all the hinting. All while this thing was totally premature, so far from production, so far from pricing, so far from reality. So many delays despite so many promises. First rule of business: Do not overpromise and underdeliver!!!!

2. The constant criticism of other products, other specs, other people; honestly, the nerve of criticizing someone who was "a retired or semi-retired engineer who used to work for the government. He's probably in the his 60's or 70's based upon the method of PCB layout." How stupid it is to criticize someone who has actually produced something that works wonderfully well when mobi has produced nothing but the hype, hoopla, hysteria from point 1.

3. IMHO, the approach really dumbed down the intelligence of the incredibly intelligent people here on mud. I mean really the whole, "we have something superior, trust us" followed by the whole, "if you want questions answered call our engineers one at a time, we wont take the time to answer your questions all at once here, despite the fact the WE generated those questions with all our own BULLSH*T."

The classy and correct way to do it would be to either say, "Hey folks, heads up, something cool is coming" and keep us posted without all the lying about timelines and such. Or, another approach would be to wait til the thing is released, offer it to an expert like Christo, let him test and report and also, most importantly, LET THE FRICKIN PRODUCT'S PERFORMANCE SPEAK FOR ITSELF!!!!!

What a royal pain in the ass, count me in as peeved. Okay, off the rant now! :cheers:
 
desertdude said:
Beowulf has been trying to get to the real facts since the product was first whispered in the other thread...

Nothing could be more of a valueable marketing tool than this site the phone is just one on one - 966 views on this thread alone


Yes, and 966 people who are possibly too pissed off to want the thing, ohh, I'm ONE of em!!! :flipoff2:
 
Not sticking up for Scott, and I recognized how he was putting down the other isolators and the company owners products. But we all now Scott is a marketer and he is doing his best to market.
He just left out all the class. If the product comes out ,works and has good reviews I am going to get a couple. But not the first version. I can wait I am not in a rush to jump in on one review.

See I all ready have the HR and it works. Matter of fact it works well. And Mike over at HR is one hell of a nice guy who always answers the phone and gives good CS no matter how redundant the question. What Scott thinks of the HR does not matter to me - I have it -use it - and it works now.
 
Wow....I'm not sure where to begin. I had no idea I had the capacity to piss so many people off. I think I'll start with criticism of other products: we've evaluated our "competitors" (and I use the term loosly), and layed out the facts. I'm apalled at the mis-representation of products out there and I find it amazing that techies, the likes of which frequent this fine board, have difficulty with our candid demeanor. The only thing that we've pushed is the availability of the product...and that sits 100% in my lap and that's 100% my fault. Do we keep making improvements, or do we deliver it in two weeks so Beowulf (or whoever) doesn't get irritated? We chose the former and that's the best we can do. A handful of you have called me and placed orders. Why? Because we're the only ones not slinging bull**** when it comes to current capacities and ratings. Desertdude, you bought a product that has AMAZING ratings at one-half an amp! Run it at it's current max rating and watch what happens. I don't make this s*** up. We tested the best-of-the-best and said "WOW." We can do a lot better. That's what we've done. That's what we've patented. That's what we've sold to Cohesive Systems for their Marine Corp contract. That's what we'll bring to market. And we'll do that as soon as we can. We have units in the field, on trucks, as we speak. And until we're satisfied that all's perfect, they won't be made available. If the timeline doesn't work per your project, then we're sorry and maybe consider POWER-GATE down the road.

Polarweasel....we're not trying to make this hard to figure out. If anything, I think the information and diagrams are very simple and straightforward. The current capacity is the current capacity. It doesn't mean 150a amps....except when you're winching a truck up a tree and drawing 500amps.

If ANYBODY has any questions or concerns, pick up the phone and call me. With the exception being over-anxious about projecting when we'd get this to market, I have neither misled, nor mis-characterized the nature of POWER-GATE, or that of the other products which I've been asked to comment on. I was asked what makes another product different from POWER-GATE and layed out the facts. With respect to the age and occupational status of HR, that's pure speculation based upon the nature of the design. It's like taking apart a brand new radio that you just bought at Best Buy. Finding vacuum tubes, you make the assumption that the designer is likely an older guy based upon the nature of the design. It's pure conjecture....perhaps HR is designed by a 20 year old using 60 year-old PCB manufacturing methods just to spice things up. I don't know and frankly, I don't care. POWER-GATE is in a class so far beyond HR that it's truly not a concern. Somebody asked, I answered. We evaluated the market and went WOW. Not only are the existing products in the marketplace sloppy and inefficient, the stats provided to sell these items are so off the mark that is can't be an accident. Or if info is accurate, it's meant to decieve. My god...the HR has amazing ratings at one-half an amp! You can't even run your cigarette lighter!

Wow, I spent way too much time on this. Those of you who have placed orders, we're working as quickly as we can. We're working on more molds for epoxy encapsulation and the test units are being run and tested. Those who haven't purchased, if you can wait, I don't think you'll be disappointed. The product won't be cheap, but great products never are. Those who are so irritated that they would never consider POWER-GATE, I'm sorry....perhaps you'll reconsider down the road.

Scott
 
See Scott even in your explanation your marketing mind cannot resist putting down the other products -thinking you are elevating the powergate

" My god...the HR has amazing ratings at one-half an amp! You can't even run your cigarette lighter! "

Now you know as well as the next guy , that you can in fact, run your cigarette lighter - why state something so sarcastic - it is not helping your credibility

I know how to break s*** too - and if I wanted to, I could break your powergate - With proper usage the HR does just fine I know because I have been using it - it is not rocket science.And for right now it is the best of all evils out there. In time the PG could be the one.

BTW I don't feel like 500 bucks is big money - but for a product so simple and no moving parts I would think selling high for percieved value will not increase your sales volume.

Anyway - hang in there - I look forward to putting the PG to the test when the time is right
 
mobi-arc said:
Do we keep making improvements, or do we deliver it in two weeks so Beowulf (or whoever) doesn't get irritated?

Beowulf is irritated because you keep saying it will be ready for sale in 2 weeks. You've said two weeks several times since February (IIRC). You told me 2 weeks on the phone back in March. I believe you also said "a few weeks" in September 2004. [ I'm good with the SEARCH so don't make me use it....] On May 28th you again said 2 weeks or sooner....

If your product isn't ready, then by all means, take the time to make it a viable competitor to the HR, the BlueSea, and others. Just be honest with us in the amount of time you need to bring the thing to market and post back here when the product is ready to be sold (not hyped) to IH8MUD members.

Seems simple to me.

-B-
 
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Beowulf said:
And I thought it was just me that was getting peeved. ;)
-B-
I've been following along from the beginning (yes, since the other thread) and I have been very quiet.

I'm pretty irritated as well.

I was going to get the antiquated, vacuum-tubed, windmill powered, neanderthal-designed HR system. But upon reading Mr. Mobi-Arc Marketer's posts stating that it would only be two weeks until the neatest isolator ever created in the history of mankind would be released to the general public...I held off. He said "it won't be cheap!" I was undeterred. I like cool, whiz-bang stuff.

So...I ignored this thread for a while and checked back today to find what? 2 more weeks? Please. :rolleyes:

Scott -- try to lay off the WOWs a bit. There were 4 in that last product-hyping post; that's probably 2 or 3 too many, IMO. I can smell vaporware marketing from a mile away. I used to work for a company that did this very same thing all the time...sell something that doesn't exist yet, then rush the crew to create what was sold, all the while holding the customers at bay with empty promises of product delivery dates...

So far, all I've seen is over-promise and under-deliver. It really should be the other way around, don't you think?

Yeah...I'm pretty irritated...to say the least...

I think I'll be making a phone call to Montana tomorrow...to place an order for an existing, AVAILABLE product. Anyone have a good reason why I shouldn't?
 
Douglas-Let me know if you would like help with the install, even if you do get the Powergate! I have a decent crimper which is invaluable and the large cable cutter as well.
 
Cruiserdrew said:
Douglas-Let me know if you would like help with the install, even if you do get the Powergate! I have a decent crimper which is invaluable and the large cable cutter as well.

Oooooo...maybe we could do a Placerville-Sacto-Reno area group install?
 
desertdude said:
See Scott even in your explanation your marketing mind cannot resist putting down the other products -thinking you are elevating the powergate

" My god...the HR has amazing ratings at one-half an amp! You can't even run your cigarette lighter! "

Now you know as well as the next guy , that you can in fact, run your cigarette lighter - why state something so sarcastic - it is not helping your credibility

I know how to break s*** too - and if I wanted to, I could break your powergate - With proper usage the HR does just fine I know because I have been using it - it is not rocket science.And for right now it is the best of all evils out there. In time the PG could be the one.

BTW I don't feel like 500 bucks is big money - but for a product so simple and no moving parts I would think selling high for percieved value will not increase your sales volume.

Anyway - hang in there - I look forward to putting the PG to the test when the time is right

You misunderstand.....my point is when you run testing and provide stats to the public, you do so at "real world levels," not at 1/2 an amp which won't drive your cigarette lighter. It's like says your car gets 200 miles to gallon...at 5 mph.
 
NorCalDoug said:
I've been following along from the beginning (yes, since the other thread) and I have been very quiet.

I'm pretty irritated as well.

I was going to get the antiquated, vacuum-tubed, windmill powered, neanderthal-designed HR system. But upon reading Mr. Mobi-Arc Marketer's posts stating that it would only be two weeks until the neatest isolator ever created in the history of mankind would be released to the general public...I held off. He said "it won't be cheap!" I was undeterred. I like cool, whiz-bang stuff.

So...I ignored this thread for a while and checked back today to find what? 2 more weeks? Please. :rolleyes:

Scott -- try to lay off the WOWs a bit. There were 4 in that last product-hyping post; that's probably 2 or 3 too many, IMO. I can smell vaporware marketing from a mile away. I used to work for a company that did this very same thing all the time...sell something that doesn't exist yet, then rush the crew to create what was sold, all the while holding the customers at bay with empty promises of product delivery dates...

So far, all I've seen is over-promise and under-deliver. It really should be the other way around, don't you think?

Yeah...I'm pretty irritated...to say the least...

I think I'll be making a phone call to Montana tomorrow...to place an order for an existing, AVAILABLE product. Anyone have a good reason why I shouldn't?

Doug,

I don't know what "vaporware marketing" is, so if I'm guilty of it, it's purely accidental. With respect to purchasing an isolator, buy the best you can afford. If you have it have it today, then perhaps HR is the answer for you. And I never characterized the HR and ancient, windmill powered, etc... It's a step in the right direction but it's not POWER-GATE efficient. Guys, I think the HR is a healthy step in the right direction when compared to silicon and Schottky units. From a consumer standpoint, I simply find it irritating that the product's literature is designed to make it look incredible to those who don't understand the engineering specs. Hell, when I looked at, my initial reaction was the HR is a great product so why bother with another isolator. Our philosophy is if we can't do it better, small, faster,....something that sets it apart from other products in the marketplace, why go through the exercise? We built an isolator using new technology and it ended up being DRAMATICALLY better than anything we could find. We submitted patent docs and are now getting close to selling it.

Competition is good and I'm not slamming another product to make ours look better; that a tactic used when products are similar and POWER-GATE is in a class of its own. I was asked direct questions and I gave candid answers based on our evaluation. They are different products, different price points. Be cautious of the specs that any company throws at you. You may not be getting the performance you signed up for. We're happy to put POWER-GATE head-to-head with any isolation and and switching product on the market. When P-GATE is available, if it's a good fit for you, then perhaps it'll be purchased. If you don't care for the product, then perhaps Sure Power or HR will suit your needs.
 
Cruiserdrew said:
Douglas-Let me know if you would like help with the install, even if you do get the Powergate! I have a decent crimper which is invaluable and the large cable cutter as well.


The crimp is absolutely critical in these types of installations. With an "okay" crimp, you'll find the connectors getting hot at healthy amperage, say 250 amps while the P-GATE will be warm-to-the-touch. We recommend crimping then a dip in a solder pot.

With that, I'm going back to work. Anybody has questions, feel free to call.
 
I guess it's silly to ask for pricing, isn't it? :)

Then again, Scott mentioned that some people have already placed orders. If you have ordered one, how much have you been told these things will cost?
 
It's not a silly question. Between $200 and $500. I don't know how other companies do things, but we don't charge a customer until the product goes out the door...seems only fair. We're still considering pricing but the 150a-250a basic isolators should fall in the $300 range. Might be a couple bucks more or less depending on how we stagger the pricing. I plan on providing some sort of deal for IH8MUD participants....what that will be, I haven't yet thought about.
 
mobi-arc said:
We're still considering pricing but the 150a-250a basic isolators should fall in the $300 range.
And by "basic isolators" you mean the 62-series "isolator-combiner", right? The switchable kind with two tabs and a switch connection?
 
We haven't done much on pricing yet, but expect modules to range from $150 to $450 based upon functionality and current capacity.

It's not a silly question. Between $200 and $500.

it has gone up 50 bucks all ready = and it hasn't even come out yet
 

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