How do you build the ultimate 2F head??

[Zack1978]

Hi everyone,

With some Christmas gift money I would like to have the head gasket done on my 1987 FJ-60 2F with over 260,000 miles on it. The truck has been sitting since May, when the gasket blew (https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/589432-my-engine-about-ready-say-goodnight.html). Yesterday my gave me a T-shirt that pictures an FJ-60 and says "I am lost without my Cruiser" and the shirt speaks the truth!

In order to build the best and most bullet proof 2F head what must I have done to it? I of course would be sending this to a machine shop, so in "machine shop speak" what do I ask them to do to my head? What is a "3 angle valve grind"? I am not after a performance boost, I just would the best head that can be built. I am also not interested in running super in the gas tank all the time...if it can be avoided. What must be done to the rocker arms and shafts? What are the MUST replace parts on an old high mileage head like mine? I will also need to address the pinging issue....which is what caused the gasket to blow in the first place I assume.

In the searches that I have done it seems that you should have the Chevy valve springs installed, with Ford seals? I have a fear that if I walk into a machine shop with a 2F Toyota head and tell them that I want Ford and Chevy parts installed they may look at me like I am crazy. Or worse they have little experience with a 2F head. I want to have me info correct before walking in the door. If this is something that I can't easily get done locally, I have no issue driving out to see Jim C. It would be good to tell the shop EXACTLY what I want done, with the exact parts (with year make and model info) I want used. I used this thread for much of the info: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-...putting-rebuilt-upgraded-head-my-fj60-2f.html


Thanks everyone,
Zack

I found the info below in a search, but none it makes sense to me. Perhaps a machine shop would get it??

I understand JimC does (did) head overhauls doing the SS valves.

One of the SEV or POL is no longer available, the other one is the ordered

My machinist found seals that fit, the 2F seals did NOT fit. He also
found some springs that fit


1.5 inch Exhaust
1.84 inch Intake

Here are some emails:



http://www.rpmmachine.com/si-valves-...laimerv8.shtml



I don't remember what the difference is. Call and ask 'em which would be better for a low RPM torker engine.

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Doug Thompson <norsk5@yahoo.com> wrote:

thanks, got the plugs

on the valves, they list two different part numbers for each of INT and EXH

1.500 Exhaust
4.88

21-4N

E-2809-POL

7.50
1.500 Exhaust
4.88

21-4N

SEV-2809

7.50
1.84
4.88

21-4N

SEV-3091

7.50
1.84
4.88

21-2N

I-3091-POL

7.50

which one would I order? The SEV or the POL versions?

 

[Zack1978]

Also in advance of doing this job, what parts should I call and order from CDan? I know the head gasket kit, but what parts should I order for the head itself?
In one thread that I read it notes that aftermarket freeze plugs don't work, so does Toyota sell a freeze plug kit for the head? If not in kit form, how many freeze plugs do I need for the head? What else must be OEM Toyota in the head?



Thanks,
Zack

 

[Zack1978]

Are these the people to use for the rocker arm's and shafts? http://www.rockerarms.com/

It seems that they went out of business, and prior to closing they had some bad reviews. But now according to the site they may be open again with new owners?


Zack

 

[freepowder]

Here' the thread on Norsk's head rebuild. Shortly after he put the whole thing together the bottom end went so he sold a bunch of stuff including the head to me. Haven't put it together yet.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-...putting-rebuilt-upgraded-head-my-fj60-2f.html

 

[zebrabeefj40]

Step 1: remove head
Step 2: box head, $$$ and ship to Jim C.
Step 3: wait for head to return
Step 4: reinstall head

If you want to use a local shop I'd recommend printing out the relevant threads and taking those along with the head to the shop. Trying to speak "machinist" when you don't know how will not help your cause. Talk to the shop about what you are trying to acheive and show how others have gotten there then listen to what the shop has to say. If you don't like what you are hearing go somewhere else. I would also not worry about taking part numbers to the shop - the shop might not use that brand of parts but have equal or better parts. Knowing the application should be enough for the machine shop to know what they need (this is where the thread printouts will help).

Good luck!
Nick

 

[zebrabeefj40]

Are these the people to use for the rocker arm's and shafts? http://www.rockerarms.com/

It seems that they went out of business, and prior to closing they had some bad reviews. But now according to the site they may be open again with new owners?


Zack

Never heard of them. Jim C. does this himself or sources good used assemblies. What makes you think your rocker shaft assembly is bad? The newer stuff rarely fails as long as the oiling system is working.

Nick

 

[norsk]

Never heard of them. Jim C. does this himself or sources good used assemblies. What makes you think your rocker shaft assembly is bad? The newer stuff rarely fails as long as the oiling system is working.

Nick

interesting, that is the company I sent my arm to, to refurbish. At 230k miles I thought a clean and redo would ensure it would be at their best.

Definitely was a lot cleaner when it came back.

norsk

 

[norsk]

Hi everyone,

With some Christmas gift money I would like to have the head gasket done on my 1987 FJ-60 2F with over 260,000 miles on it. The truck has been sitting since May, when the gasket blew (https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-wagons/589432-my-engine-about-ready-say-goodnight.html). Yesterday my gave me a T-shirt that pictures an FJ-60 and says "I am lost without my Cruiser" and the shirt speaks the truth!

In order to build the best and most bullet proof 2F head what must I have done to it? I of course would be sending this to a machine shop, so in "machine shop speak" what do I ask them to do to my head? What is a "3 angle valve grind"? I am not after a performance boost, I just would the best head that can be built. I am also not interested in running super in the gas tank all the time...if it can be avoided. What must be done to the rocker arms and shafts? What are the MUST replace parts on an old high mileage head like mine? I will also need to address the pinging issue....which is what caused the gasket to blow in the first place I assume.

In the searches that I have done it seems that you should have the Chevy valve springs installed, with Ford seals? I have a fear that if I walk into a machine shop with a 2F Toyota head and tell them that I want Ford and Chevy parts installed they may look at me like I am crazy. Or worse they have little experience with a 2F head. I want to have me info correct before walking in the door. If this is something that I can't easily get done locally, I have no issue driving out to see Jim C. It would be good to tell the shop EXACTLY what I want done, with the exact parts (with year make and model info) I want used. I used this thread for much of the info: https://forum.ih8mud.com/60-series-...putting-rebuilt-upgraded-head-my-fj60-2f.html


Thanks everyone,
Zack

I found the info below in a search, but none it makes sense to me. Perhaps a machine shop would get it??

I understand JimC does (did) head overhauls doing the SS valves.

One of the SEV or POL is no longer available, the other one is the ordered

My machinist found seals that fit, the 2F seals did NOT fit. He also
found some springs that fit


1.5 inch Exhaust
1.84 inch Intake

Here are some emails:



http://www.rpmmachine.com/si-valves-...laimerv8.shtml



I don't remember what the difference is. Call and ask 'em which would be better for a low RPM torker engine.

On Mon, May 10, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Doug Thompson <norsk5@yahoo.com> wrote:

thanks, got the plugs

on the valves, they list two different part numbers for each of INT and EXH

1.500 Exhaust
4.88

21-4N

E-2809-POL

7.50
1.500 Exhaust
4.88

21-4N

SEV-2809

7.50
1.84
4.88

21-4N

SEV-3091

7.50
1.84
4.88

21-2N

I-3091-POL

7.50

which one would I order? The SEV or the POL versions?

When I visited their web site they listed both, then I CALLED them and asked for what I should use and they provided me the proper one currently valid. I then went ahead and ordered the valves from them and took them and the head to my machine shop.

so I got a stainless set of valves, new oil seals that fit the new valves and some good springs, provided by the machinist.

My old valves were being sucked into the seats as well.

norsk

 

[FJ60Cam]

This.

Step 1: remove head
Step 2: box head, $$$ and ship to Jim C.
Step 3: wait for head to return
Step 4: reinstall head

If you want to use a local shop I'd recommend printing out the relevant threads and taking those along with the head to the shop. Trying to speak "machinist" when you don't know how will not help your cause. Talk to the shop about what you are trying to acheive and show how others have gotten there then listen to what the shop has to say. If you don't like what you are hearing go somewhere else. I would also not worry about taking part numbers to the shop - the shop might not use that brand of parts but have equal or better parts. Knowing the application should be enough for the machine shop to know what they need (this is where the thread printouts will help).

Good luck!
Nick

 

[Mark W]

If you are not aiming for modifications with an eye toward increasing performance... then there is no reason to do anything at all to the head at all, other than whatever repairs may be needed (Repairs as in new valve seals, and whatever attention the valves, seats and guides need to bring them back to spec, making sure the head is flat and stuff like that).

Mark...

 

[Zack1978]

If you are not aiming for modifications with an eye toward increasing performance... then there is no reason to do anything at all to the head at all, other than whatever repairs may be needed (Repairs as in new valve seals, and whatever attention the valves, seats and guides need to bring them back to spec, making sure the head is flat and stuff like that).

Mark...

And a component machine shop should know how to do the needed stock repairs ? I assume that a 2F head is not that different from the common Chevy blue flame correct?


Zack

 

[Joe_E]

Step 1: remove head
Step 2: box head, $$$ and ship to Jim C.
Step 3: wait for head to return
Step 4: reinstall head

If you want to use a local shop I'd recommend printing out the relevant threads and taking those along with the head to the shop. Trying to speak "machinist" when you don't know how will not help your cause. Talk to the shop about what you are trying to acheive and show how others have gotten there then listen to what the shop has to say. If you don't like what you are hearing go somewhere else. I would also not worry about taking part numbers to the shop - the shop might not use that brand of parts but have equal or better parts. Knowing the application should be enough for the machine shop to know what they need (this is where the thread printouts will help).

Good luck!
Nick

X10

This is a best bet Zach.
Jim did mine and he knows all the tricks to make it the best head possible.

 

[OGBeno]

X10

This is a best bet Zach.
Jim did mine and he knows all the tricks to make it the best head possible.

Yup. There is the truth--both Joe and Nick speaketh...Just send it to Jim with a blank check.

 

[TS888]

No disrespect to Jim Chenowith EVER, but... I would agree that if the goal is just to return the head to stock spec, then any competent machine shop should be capable of doing the work.

The PO of my truck had the local machine shop (where our shop sends all machine work) rebuild the head at about 260k (engine is at 318k now). I have the receipt; it got guides, seals, seats, a 3 angle cut and a skim. The valves and cam were judged OK. It runs great, doesn't smoke and only uses about a quart of oil between 3k mile oil changes.

The only miss on my truck was the PO did not have the galley plug replaced with a threaded plug -- I assume he just didn't know about the risk. That's on my to-do list. If you point it out to the machine shop, it will be easy and cheap if they do it while the head is off.

When you say "ultimate", I think about larger intake valves, stronger springs, more lift on the cam, port matching, possibly opening up the intake and exhaust ports (particularly if you have a header), maybe shaving the head to bump the compression... A 2F is a tractor motor, but even a tractor can benefit from the standard tricks to make a head breath better. If you want to raise the revs and chase more HP you need to address the bottom end -- 2F's are not balanced particularly well -- but the 2F is a torque machine, better breathing will enhance that.

 

[Spike Strip]

Of course the operative phrase in all this is, 'Competent Machine Shop...' These days, easier said than found.

Zack, where are you ?

 

[Moby]

my gave me a T-shirt that pictures an FJ-60 and says "I am lost without my Cruiser" and the shirt speaks the truth!

Source for the shirt?

 

[norsk]

don't know why the URL didn't work, but this one should to the store to buy the stainless valves

http://www.rpmmachine.com/si-valves-chevrolet-claimerv8.shtml

norsk

 

[Mace]

porting and polishing is a waste of time on a cruiser motor IMHO.

 

[Mark W]

And a component machine shop should know how to do the needed stock repairs ? I assume that a 2F head is not that different from the common Chevy blue flame correct?

Zack

Yep, mundane run of the mill everyday stuff for any machine shop good enough to stay in business.


Mark...

 

[subzali]

We have a couple local machine shops here in Denver that several folks have walked in with their head, and without saying anything, the machinist says, "yep, Land Cruiser head." They know what to do.

Find a shop like that.