High steer discussion.......... (1 Viewer)

[Texican]

Let me share my thoughts on the high steer, and this is based on my experience only, but feel free to post up and discuss.....

I have seen studs shear, break and get loose, and this happens mostly on the ones that have the extra connection on the RH knuckle for the drag link....see image....

 

[Texican]

Vs this type arm, in which the drag link connects in an extra hole usually in the RH tie rod, like the OEM setup....

 

[Texican]

In the first style arm, (Lukes rear tie rod arms would fall in here also)
the stress of turning both front tires in transmitted via the 4 studs on the RH knuckle.....
On the latter, the stress is distributed thru all 8 studs equally....
I have the single hole on my truck, with the small pattern knuckles, and I check the studs, but rarely find any loose.......
Discuss......................
Butch

 

[CruisinGA]

In the first style arm, (Lukes rear tie rod arms would fall in here also)
the stress of turing both front tires in transmitted via the 4 studs on the RH knuckle.....
Butch

As you know the weakness in the first design is because the P/S studs must bear not only the load of steering the P/S wheel, but also SOME (not all) of the load of steering the other side. The distance between the draglink mount and tie rod end mount determines how much of the D/S-bound force the knuckle studs see.

With Luke's setup the PS knuckle studs see ALL of the force that the steering box produces. Not ideal IMHO.

 

[woody]

disagree....

the force between the linkage is carried thru the arms themselves, and thru the joints in the links...

the resistance at each knuckle is thru their individual studs...

mine loosen equally, both sides....and my knuckle breakage at RU05 was the drivers side...

 

[hammerhead]

I agree with Woody...

Lukes style arms, both sides loosen, only breakage on drivers side...

 

[Mace]

Only if your TR was loose would it matter. Some arms loosen more than others. I suspect it is more a matter of imperfect machining (or casting) and no I am not singling any arms out. Always check your steering arms and you shoudl be fine.

Think about a stock GM D60. The kingpin on the PS take all the abuse. But they rarely loosen..

 

[Texican]

Only if your TR was loose would it matter. Some arms loosen more than others. I suspect it is more a matter of imperfect machining (or casting) and no I am not singling any arms out. Always check your steering arms and you shoudl be fine.

Think about a stock GM D60. The kingpin on the PS take all the abuse. But they rarely loosen..

But in stock configuration they are cast into the knuckle.....
I'm not following what the TR being loose have anything to do with the transmission of force.........
stock
pitman arm moves....transmitting force to the TR which transmits to both arms equally......


other configuration force comes from pitman arm, then to RH arm thru pivots on RH studs and knuckle bearing, over to the LH knuckle.


Butch

 

[Poser]

Not having things adjusted properly and then adding hydraulic assist or full on hydraulic steering will find your weak link/mis-adjusted components right quick.

 

[Poser]

But in stock configuration they are cast into the knuckle.....

Butch

On what axle?


The steering arm bolts to the top of the knuckle on 60's....it is not integral with the knuckle.

 

[Mace]

On the 60, the force of steering is through the 4 bolts that hold it to the DS. Then to the cast arms on the tie rod.


On a highsteer system on a 40, if both the TR and the DL are tight in their sockets the DL is transfering the forces directly to the DL. (more or less) the knuckle studs only care what stress the DL can put on them. Which is essentially the same if the DL is attatched to hte TR or to the arm in front of the TR.

IT is leverage that kills the knuckles. The location of the TR is not really an opposed force (cept in a behind the axle configuration)


If you were saying that the behind the axle config was harder on the knuckles I would agree with ya..

 

[muddogbob]

equal and opposite

 

[Cube Dweller]

Mace is right. I didn't draw a free body diagram, but it's the lever arm distance from the TR to the knuckle studs + the force applied to the TR that are the critical factors.

Anyone know the torque spec for steering arms when using ARP knuckle studs? I used the factory spec since I figured the knuckle threads would fail before the studs

 

[bustanutley]

There is a small (read negligible) additional force to the PS knuckle if you take in to concideration the moment about the tie rod end. The moment arm is like an inch long so no significat added force, other wise the forces are equal and opposite so they cancel out.

However downward or upward forces could be appiled to that arm that wouldn't be applied to the other when suspention is flex or if steering angle arn't perfect, but that is just :shotts:

 

[bkg]

The only steering system that puts additional stress on the passenger side studs is the Trail-Ready setup... It's a very nice setup, but the PS side gets abused.

 

[bustanutley]

you might want to rethink that statment, read my post above, i'm talking about that sort of system.

Trail gear and marlin are by all practical means the same.

 

[bkg]

you might want to rethink that statment, read my post above, i'm talking about that sort of system.

Trail gear and marlin are by all practical means the same.

TG, Marlin, AP, Sky, FRORF, OTT - they are all the same. But throwing the tierod behind the axle , on the opposite side of the DR introduces different forces. Now the forces are not in-line headin the the same direction, they are actually pivoting on the PS knuckle studs. Lock the driver's side tire against a rock while the Passenger tire is gree and try turning - all that stress has to go through the PS knuckle studs to the tie rod. W/ the other systems, the stress stops, arguably, at the PS arm, not the studs... I think.

 

[bigbluefj]

where would one find arp steering knuckle stud's

kevin

 

[Moby]

where would one find arp steering knuckle stud's

kevin

Front Range Off-Road: http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=44&osCsid=dc970580219a056e58b78cff11d0369c

ARP hub studs as well: http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfoscomm/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=58&osCsid=dc970580219a056e58b78cff11d0369c

 

[rusty_tlc]

Only if your TR was loose would it matter. Some arms loosen more than others. I suspect it is more a matter of imperfect machining (or casting) and no I am not singling any arms out. Always check your steering arms and you shoudl be fine.

Wouldn't the cone washer conform enough to compensate for differences in machining? I would think wear in the knuckle threads would be a more likely cause of loosening.