Help needed: engine-tranny assembly problem

[jbpace]

Would someone please tell me what I'm doing wrong/missing?

I'd been unable to bolt the transmission to the engine (~1/2" gap) so I finally undid everything to check dimensions. FSM says to confirm the torque converter setback is more than 15.7mm -- 16.38mm seems fine (sorry for the dark photo):

I can't find flex plate extension specs in the FSM, but I'd expect it to be less than 15.7mm -- 32.87mm seems excessive:

However, when I place the starter in situ it certainly looks like it lines up properly:

I'm stumped. Have I assembled the flex plate incorrectly? Am I wimping out torquing the bolts? I admit it's been a long week at work, but I simply can't figure out why it's not going together. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Jon

 

[jbpace]

Bump - still looking for advice

 

[blkprj80]

The center pin of the torque converter has to go into the crankshaft end.
Wiggle, jostle, tilt, swear, etc. you may be able to move the torque converter up a little to get it in.

I dreaded this on mine but it went fairly smooth.

 

[Danimal92sport]

Are there dowel pins on the engine or transmission on these cars? If so, those can commonly cause this issue and can be a real PITA to line up perfectly.

 

[Fireman]

A trick that I've learned is to put anti seize on the nub of the torque converter. Lubes and keeps it form rusting in place.

 

[jbpace]

I'd learned the hard way about the tip of the torque converter, but even lined up it wouldn't go.

I tried bolting the torque converter to the flex plate first, then bolting on the tranny - still no love.

Does the tranny shifter have to be in a certain position (P-R-N-2-1) during assembly? Should it matter that the tranny has been drained of fluid for months?

Thanks,
Jon

 

[jbpace]

Are there dowel pins on the engine or transmission on these cars?

There are - two, I believe. When I assembled without the torque converter it was definitely a tight fit - maybe it's just that much tighter with it in place.

I'll try adding some PB Blaster and see if it slips together easier.

Jon

 

[blkprj80]

Nope, none of those things would affect how it goes together.

That tip has to be aligned and square. Otherwise it won't slide in.

Are you lowering an engine in, or lifting a transmission up?? Or free space?

 

[neal0124]

A buddy of mine was once trying to install a transmission into his old ford galaxy. He had the same problem trying to get the two surfaces to mate up properly. He figured he would just use the bolts to pull the transmission onto the engine. He was cranking the snot out of the bolts trying to get it to mate up and snapped two ears off the tranny bell housing. When I got there he had already pulled everything back apart. I slowly spun the TQ on the input shaft and the TQ finally seated all the way, slid in about 1/2". Everything went back together fine after that.

I've never pulled the Toyota transmission out, but that would be the first thing I checked. Good luck.

 

[nemoblackdog]

I've only done this once, but is was with the assistance of somebody who has done this many, many times (our very own Robbie). One very helpful trick he uses is to make a pair of "dowels" out of two bolts that thread into the bell housing. These are made by cutting the heads off of a bolts that fits the bell housing threads, and then using a hacksaw or dremel tool to cut a slot into the (now headless) bolt shaft so a flathead screwdriver can be used to remove them after the engine is mounted flush to the tranny. These longer, full-diameter "dowels" help align the engine much better than the two tiny ones that are already there, and they help ensure the engine is guided in squarely.

Also, definitely re-check the torque converter - push in while turning it and make sure it's fully seated. It's possible for it to sit in a position that is too far forward. I know you've checked that depth measurement, but it's easiest just to push and turn. It's very easy for the TC to have been pulled out slightly when the engine was pulled out.

 

[86tuning]

definitely re-check the torque converter - push in while turning it and make sure it's fully seated. It's possible for it to sit in a position that is too far forward. I know you've checked that depth measurement, but it's easiest just to push and turn. It's very easy for the TC to have been pulled out slightly when the engine was pulled out.

Definitely do this. Many times the converter isn't properly seated in the trans. The bolt surface must be sitting back far enough. There's a pair of notches in the converter that must engage the drive tangs on the pump.

Good luck!

 

[jbpace]

There's a pair of notches in the converter that must engage the drive tangs on the pump.

When the torque converter is seated properly - should it rotate easily (remember - it's drained of ATF fluid)?

My torque converter spins easily inside the tranny - almost as if the tangs aren't engaged. The engine & tranny were disassembled before being shipped to me - maybe one of the tangs was slightly bent in during transport....


Can anyone confirm the assembled flex plate in the photo below looks correct (with my luck it's backwards):

Thanks,
Jon

 

[86tuning]

Closely look at the converter bolt holes at the "dirt marks" because one side will have round marks from the bolt heads and the other side will have square marks from the converter tabs.

It's been too long since I did a rear main to remember which way it goes. I use dirt marks all the time.

And the converter should not spin freely. Look at the pump drive tangs and shine a light into the front seal of the trans. Make a note of where the drive tangs are and line it up. It often takes a bunch of effing around (er, I mean effort) to get the converter seated properly. Even pros get annoyed at this so don't feel bad. You'll know when it's seated all the way, it goes in with a thunk.

Never never bolt up the converter to the flex plate first. You'll never get it together, and may actually break the transmission pump. You don't want to do that. It requires tear down to repair.

 

[nemoblackdog]

When the torque converter is seated properly - should it rotate easily (remember - it's drained of ATF fluid)?

My torque converter spins easily inside the tranny - almost as if the tangs aren't engaged. The engine & tranny were disassembled before being shipped to me - maybe one of the tangs was slightly bent in during transport....

Can anyone confirm the assembled flex plate in the photo below looks correct (with my luck it's backwards):

Yes - your flex plate looks to be assembled correctly.

I think you've probably ID'd the issue. If the TC spins very easily, I'd guess it's not fully engaged. Spin and push, and you might find it settles in a good 1/2" or more.

 

[jbpace]

Are you lowering an engine in, or lifting a transmission up?? Or free space?

I built transport assemblies that align the engine & tranny for assembly. Also a lot easier to spin the engine around than my engine stand. I thought this was one of the better ideas I've had:

Jon

 

[jbpace]

I think you've probably ID'd the issue. If the TC spins very easily, I'd guess it's not fully engaged. Spin and push, and you might find it settles in a good 1/2" or more.

I believe you're right - just spent 30 minutes spinning & pushing the dang thing with no satisfying thunk. I'll try again tomorrow....

Thanks again,
Jon

 

[blkprj80]

If you can measure with a straightedge and ruler and the distance meets/exceeds the FSM, quit dicking with it, it's in.

The converter sags slightly. For that reason you might want your engine 1/4" higher at first to get the pin started. Then line up engine to bell housing and push it together. If it's right you can freely spin the converter through the holes in the flex plate before you put the bolts in.

 

[alia176]

well, were you successful? I had similar issue and it turned out to be the TC not fully seated.

 

[jbpace]

well, were you successful? I had similar issue and it turned out to be the TC not fully seated.

I'm sure the TC isn't fully seated, but I haven't found success yet. My patience doesn't provide me more than 10 mins per attempt, but I will eventually conquer this challenge!!

Jon

 

[86tuning]

I'm sure the TC isn't fully seated, but I haven't found success yet. My patience doesn't provide me more than 10 mins per attempt, but I will eventually conquer this challenge!!

Jon

pull it right out. look at the drive tangs to make sure they're intact. Shine flashlight thru the input shaft seal and LOOK.

Line up the converter tangs as best you can. Then wiggle and tiggle and put it in!