Help!! I'm Irate!! Ignition Trouble... (2 Viewers)

[Pants]

Thanks all for your suggestions.

The garage has had the truck for 5 days now, with no information forthcoming. They tried the Timing Position Sensor, and concluded that that was not the issue. They now claim they are "chasing wires" to see if there's a short somewhere.

I am not a well-versed mechanic, so it is extremely helpfull to have this information from you all so I don't feel like a lamb in the lion's den.

Thanks again, and I will update this post as the problem becomes clearer. Maybe it will save somebody else some time.

 

[cpcc]

If changing the fuel pump did not solve the problem, make sure that you get your money back from them for the misdiagnosis.

 

[Pants]

UPDATE:

My local garage has determined that the ECU is shot.

I called Toyota Customer Service and they agreed without question to replace the ECU for just the cost of labor and two new keys.

I read elsewhere in here that "90% of ECUs that get returned for replacement had nothing wrong with them, and the probelm was likely a switch, wire, connection somewhere, etc..."

This information notwithstanding, hopefully this will solve the problem. I will keep everyone posted.

Thanks,

Pants

 

[spressomon]

UPDATE:

My local garage has determined that the ECU is shot.

I called Toyota Customer Service and they agreed without question to replace the ECU for just the cost of labor and two new keys.

I read elsewhere in here that "90% of ECUs that get returned for replacement had nothing wrong with them, and the probelm was likely a switch, wire, connection somewhere, etc..."

This information notwithstanding, hopefully this will solve the problem. I will keep everyone posted.

Thanks,

Pants

Hopefully they will be able to get your door lock ECU to talk to the new ignition ECU.

 

[dfmorse]

Way too much electronics on these beasts!!

...

 

[Pants]

Further Update

FURTHER UPDATE.....


Well, apparently Toyota will ONLY replace the ECU for free IF the keys have been lost or stolen , and NOT if it's just crapped out.

So I'm in limbo now. The worst part is, after having it towed to the dealership from the garage, the truck started just fine.

So now the dealer can't do anything until they can replicate the problem. Who knows how long that might be.

This truck will be in the "For Sale" forum shortly, if anybody wants to take it on.

 

[ZJ2UZJ100]

This sounds a lot like a loose or broken wire or connector between the ignition cylinder coil antenna and the immobilizer module and the ECU.

If the keys are still in memory (started up at the shop again? Really?) then the problem is with the system recognizing there's a key in the ignition, and getting that signal to the ECU to tell it to start the car. If the security icon keeps blinking when you key is inserted, the immobilizer doesn't recognize the key.

And maybe the previous owner made the key swap because they had the exact same problem...thought the module was dead. Or maybe the person who installed the replacement ignition cylinder didn't plug everything in tightly, or broke/pinched a wire.

 

[richg]

FURTHER UPDATE.....


Well, apparently Toyota will ONLY replace the ECU for free IF the keys have been lost or stolen , and NOT if it's just crapped out.

Well thats easy then, call back and say "I lost my keys."

But first, how has the local garage determined it is definitely the ECU and not some other component in the chain of things?

Rich

 

[Pants]

Update:

The Toyota dealsership called this morning and said:

"After A LOT of tinkering and testing, it's not the ECU. We found that the EFI main relay was sticking roughly one in every twenty turns of the ignition, causing the truck to not start until it becomes 'unstuck'".

I asked them on a scale of 1 to 10, how certain they were that this was the problem, to which he replied "9.5"

He also said that they were unable to replicate the continued blinking of the security indicator light after key insertion, so no headway there.

In researching EFIs, I found this-

"While a lot of the possible faults in the EFI system point to the ECU iteself, it should be noted that ECU failure is not common. The ECU should be replaced only as a last resort or if all diagnosises points to a bad ECU. Usually, troublesome EFI problems are a result of poor grounds, shorted wiring, and bad connections at sensors."

This supports the suggestions made in previous posts by ZJ2UZJ100 and richg (thank you again), diminishes my confidence in my local garage, and leaves me feeling not very hopeful.

I'm sure nobody cares about this as much as I do, but I will keep updating in the hopes that someone will be saved a big headache in the future if they can reference this. I have been without the vehicle for almost three weeks now.



P.S.
"Well thats easy then, call back and say "I lost my keys."

...I tried that. They already had the VIN # and called b.s. on me!!!

 

[ZJ2UZJ100]

Thanks for the update.

We DO CARE because we fear the same problems could happen on our vehicles. So thanks for continuing to dog this issue and keep us posted. Hopefully this forum is around for the next 50 years.

Maybe after your shop "fixes" this for you, they can get somebody else's TLC key and stick it in your ignition to see what happens to the blinking security icon on the dash.

 

[richg]

I agree with ZJ2UZJ100 and still think you have a problem with the immobilizer portion of the system. Nothing else explains the continued blinking of the security light AFTER a key has been inserted. And based upon the fact that the ignition cylinder has been replaced once already, I would be focusing on the area of that repair. Like was said earlier, either a previous owner had the same problem and tried to fix it, or their ignition cylinder got hung up, they replaced that and botched up the immobilizer bits. I would go for the latter -- there have been zero reports of immobilizer failures on this board, or ECU failures for that matter. Based upon that, my guess is someone replaced the ignition cylinder because it was starting to hang up and did some damage to other components, or didn't reinstall them properly.

rich

 

[ZJ2UZJ100]

I expect you will know soon enough after you get the truck back.
Relays do wear out eventually. Hopefully that's all it was.

The cost of the relay should be mice nuts compared to the other components they would try to blame it on.

 

[Pants]

Apparently the EFI relay was the culprit.

I've had the truck for a few days now, and everytime I insert the key in the ignition, the security light disappears and it starts right up.

I'm still uncertain about what the EFI relay has to do with the immobilizer, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks to all who offered helpfull suggestions.

Pants

 

[cpcc]

We've got our fingers crossed for you.

 

[truggier]

Follow-up? I'm having the same problem...

Hello,

Did you ever get this problem resolved? I am having an identical issue with my '99 100 Series. Intermittent starting problems where the engine just cranks forever and never starts. I've had it towed to two different garages (including one Toyota dealership), and as soon as the thing is off of the tow truck it starts right up. The garages then can't diagnose the problem since it isn't occurring right then.

Lately when it dies, we leave it and go back the next day and it starts right up. This is really frustrating - it makes the vehicle virtually useless as we never know where it will leave us stranded.

Thanks.

 

[Liam]

Hello,

Did you ever get this problem resolved? I am having an identical issue with my '99 100 Series. Intermittent starting problems where the engine just cranks forever and never starts. I've had it towed to two different garages (including one Toyota dealership), and as soon as the thing is off of the tow truck it starts right up. The garages then can't diagnose the problem since it isn't occurring right then.

Lately when it dies, we leave it and go back the next day and it starts right up. This is really frustrating - it makes the vehicle virtually useless as we never know where it will leave us stranded.

Thanks.

i recently had this happen on my 98. It would just keep turning over and over without starting. It would finally start after i kept it turned over. My starter was going out and also my o2 sensor was toast, so i just chalked it up to that. I've sense changed my o2 sensor and my starter and have not had any issues.

 

[truggier]

i recently had this happen on my 98. It would just keep turning over and over without starting. It would finally start after i kept it turned over. My starter was going out and also my o2 sensor was toast, so i just chalked it up to that. I've sense changed my o2 sensor and my starter and have not had any issues.

Thanks for the reply. The starter is brand new. I'm not sure about the O2 sensor, though Toyota did run full diagnostics on it and did not flag that as a problem. It's the intermittent nature of the problem that is odd.

 

[BManning`]

I had this exact problem on my 1991 FJ80! Replaced fuel pump unnecessarily, replaced EFI relay unnecessarily...turned out to be a problem with the Crime Stopper remote start & alarm system that I had put in it!

The installing tech tapped in somewhere he shouldn't have, and long story short the security feature was cutting fuel to the injectors in a completely random manner-- one day it'd start, the next it would only crank.

I had that dad blamed Crime Stopper taken out and it's fired right up, every time, since. And, I have a shiny new fuel pump and EFI relay to show for it.

Classic case of a high-tech fancy shmancy aftermarket thingy causing an issue. That's why the 100 is staying bone stock-- I'm not even risking satellite radio (which kills me).

 

[Liam]

I had this exact problem on my 1991 FJ80! Replaced fuel pump unnecessarily, replaced EFI relay unnecessarily...turned out to be a problem with the Crime Stopper remote start & alarm system that I had put in it!

The installing tech tapped in somewhere he shouldn't have, and long story short the security feature was cutting fuel to the injectors in a completely random manner-- one day it'd start, the next it would only crank.

I had that dad blamed Crime Stopper taken out and it's fired right up, every time, since. And, I have a shiny new fuel pump and EFI relay to show for it.

Classic case of a high-tech fancy shmancy aftermarket thingy causing an issue. That's why the 100 is staying bone stock-- I'm not even risking satellite radio (which kills me).

Sat radio is easy. Just use the AUX port to run an external through your speakers.....

 

[truggier]

I had this exact problem on my 1991 FJ80! Replaced fuel pump unnecessarily, replaced EFI relay unnecessarily...turned out to be a problem with the Crime Stopper remote start & alarm system that I had put in it!

The installing tech tapped in somewhere he shouldn't have, and long story short the security feature was cutting fuel to the injectors in a completely random manner-- one day it'd start, the next it would only crank.

I had that dad blamed Crime Stopper taken out and it's fired right up, every time, since. And, I have a shiny new fuel pump and EFI relay to show for it.

Classic case of a high-tech fancy shmancy aftermarket thingy causing an issue. That's why the 100 is staying bone stock-- I'm not even risking satellite radio (which kills me).

Thanks for the info. I think this is related to the stock anti-theft system malfunctioning, as has been discussed in this thread. I just wanted to find out from the original poster how (or if) he had resolved the problem. There's some good ideas presented in this thread, and I think I'll follow them up with Toyota.