Honestly, scuttlebutt with a "k", one would expect more from a slayer of dragons.
HELL YEAH!!!! I love this thing!
- Thread starter SoCalCruiser
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That's ye Olde English spelling.
-B-
-B-
And I thought Olde Bay was Danish.
Hey, welcome. So, details? The question was asked already, but "Did you run the entire Miller Jeep Trail?". That would be the one that ends in a long climb out of the valley and you summit in a nice forested area. Kabob Hill is one of the named obstacles if that helps.
This trail starts with a little creek crossing and an immediate climb up a rocky trail that sometimes has a rough patch right at the top.
DougM
This trail starts with a little creek crossing and an immediate climb up a rocky trail that sometimes has a rough patch right at the top.
DougM
- Thread starter
- #25
Doug,
yeah that was the trail. Whether we ran the entire trail or not I'm not sure. But we did reach a summit with a clearing and there was a Forest Service sign, like a dedication sign listing all the 4x4 clubs that helped build and maintain it. Pics are coming.
yeah that was the trail. Whether we ran the entire trail or not I'm not sure. But we did reach a summit with a clearing and there was a Forest Service sign, like a dedication sign listing all the 4x4 clubs that helped build and maintain it. Pics are coming.
- Thread starter
- #27
Yeah, ran out of time. Turned around and went back down the way we came up.
Well, my man you've not seen even 10% of that trail then! In my personal opinion, that trail off the Gorman exit is one of the premier trails within 2 hours of LA. At TMS, we used to use that one for trail evaluations and it's absolutely perfect. It will test vehicle balance, differentials, articulation, ground clearance, and all the rest quite nicely. In the old days, it went right up the stream you crossed for miles and there were a lot of deep holes and boulders right off the bat. Now the first couple miles were re-routed out of the stream and the first notable summit lauds the various clubs that helped out with it.
You should try it all the way to the end. You'll be blown away at both the trail and what your vehicle can do. Be sure you get directions for the exit as it can be confusing when you climb out and are confronted with myriad forest roads.
It is notable for another reason for me. It's the first place I saw a mighty 80 series in action. We had about a dozen vehicles that particular day and the trail was extremely dusty and loose. Well beyond where you stopped is an epic climb and several of the 4Runners and competitive rigs were having trouble with this section. I was out of the truck videotaping them for my personal library and we were all anticipating the 80 series prototypes at the back of the pack. Completely stock preproduction units, actually.
After shooting every vehicle take at least 3 cracks at this particular section, I heard the deeper note of the first 80 and just looked at this footage a few minutes ago for nostalgia. Here comes this massive burgundy beast around the corner and up the slope - wheels fully extending deeply into the holes and the body maintaining astonishingly flat posture. Up. Up. Right past me with not a single wheel slip or spin. There was a notable moment where you can hear people around me kind of gasp or exclaim. The right rear wheel ran over a rock slab about 3 feet long and shaped like a pointed spear, standing it perfectly on end. Oblivious, the driver continued up with this 150lb rock poised to rake the fender well, but it didn't fall toward the body until JUST after the rear bumper cleared. Kinda funny.
Anyhow, you should get another vehicle and run the thing end to end. If you want a trail description that will keep you on the correct trail, I have an excellent trail review somewhere I can post. It's a classic. But don't go alone, and have the 80 in front so you can pull whatever worthless rig you get to accompany you up the obstacles - there's no way to get around in most places.
Another time, we crested the top to find a large (perhaps 30) group of heavily modified Jeeps parked willy nilly like they owned the place. I was the first up and they came over to look at my totally stock 29" street tire-ed new 4Runner, asking about the prototype license plates. Unconvinced that it was stock, there were several comments that this was a "jeep" trail and I shouldn't be on it without this and that mod. I intentionally didn't say much after that because I could hear in the distance the timing was shaping up to be absolutely perfect. Just as the last holdout hardcore guy sauntered up and started looking for trail damage (none), the next vehicle crested the hill - a full boat loaded 4Runner SR5 with chrome alloys, with the moonroof open. Followed immediately by about 6 more, then a couple pickups and a full boat LandCruiser with prototype running boards on it. What a gas to watch the jeeper's eyes pop out!
It ended with everybody looking at each other's cars and a lot of laughing and groups of people hanging around. We had some folks from Toyota Japan and they were snapping pictures of the Jeeps and smiling from ear to ear. What a treat!
Another time, my brother Scott was out visiting and we tried to get through the trail in winter. At the beginning of the final climb, we were turned back by increasing snow depth. About a mile back toward the trail head, we came across a lifted K5 Blazer who'd gotten crossed up on a rock obstacle and was sitting on his frame with 3 young guys yanking and swearing. I stopped and waited for one of them to do the polite thing and wave, or walk over and apologize for blocking the trail. Nothing. They didn't want to acknowledge that some "jap" rig had gotten farther then they, apparently, and rightfully figured we'd have to get out and help them if we wanted to get by. Pointedly ignored us. I think we were in my personal '92 80 at the time (Scott - remember which?). Anyhow, I said "watch this - it will really piss them off".
Turning off the trail, we carefully picked our way through rocks the size of livingroom furniture and sidesloped downhill around them, then climbed back upslope toward the trail. I truly wasn't sure if we were going to make it without damage, and it was really terrain that required a good spotter. Fortunately, I picked the right lines and the way I remember it, we never even came to a full rest in all the bouncing and leaning as we eased around. Once back on the trail, I recall we briefly discussed offering to yank them but we decided they'd been a--holes to us so they could sit out there all night and think about it. We drove off!! Heh. Great memories.
Anyhow, that's a fun trail that will fully test any stock rig to the max, and has a few spots where an 80 driver might be tempted to reach for the little rotary switch....
DougM
You should try it all the way to the end. You'll be blown away at both the trail and what your vehicle can do. Be sure you get directions for the exit as it can be confusing when you climb out and are confronted with myriad forest roads.
It is notable for another reason for me. It's the first place I saw a mighty 80 series in action. We had about a dozen vehicles that particular day and the trail was extremely dusty and loose. Well beyond where you stopped is an epic climb and several of the 4Runners and competitive rigs were having trouble with this section. I was out of the truck videotaping them for my personal library and we were all anticipating the 80 series prototypes at the back of the pack. Completely stock preproduction units, actually.
After shooting every vehicle take at least 3 cracks at this particular section, I heard the deeper note of the first 80 and just looked at this footage a few minutes ago for nostalgia. Here comes this massive burgundy beast around the corner and up the slope - wheels fully extending deeply into the holes and the body maintaining astonishingly flat posture. Up. Up. Right past me with not a single wheel slip or spin. There was a notable moment where you can hear people around me kind of gasp or exclaim. The right rear wheel ran over a rock slab about 3 feet long and shaped like a pointed spear, standing it perfectly on end. Oblivious, the driver continued up with this 150lb rock poised to rake the fender well, but it didn't fall toward the body until JUST after the rear bumper cleared. Kinda funny.
Anyhow, you should get another vehicle and run the thing end to end. If you want a trail description that will keep you on the correct trail, I have an excellent trail review somewhere I can post. It's a classic. But don't go alone, and have the 80 in front so you can pull whatever worthless rig you get to accompany you up the obstacles - there's no way to get around in most places.
Another time, we crested the top to find a large (perhaps 30) group of heavily modified Jeeps parked willy nilly like they owned the place. I was the first up and they came over to look at my totally stock 29" street tire-ed new 4Runner, asking about the prototype license plates. Unconvinced that it was stock, there were several comments that this was a "jeep" trail and I shouldn't be on it without this and that mod. I intentionally didn't say much after that because I could hear in the distance the timing was shaping up to be absolutely perfect. Just as the last holdout hardcore guy sauntered up and started looking for trail damage (none), the next vehicle crested the hill - a full boat loaded 4Runner SR5 with chrome alloys, with the moonroof open. Followed immediately by about 6 more, then a couple pickups and a full boat LandCruiser with prototype running boards on it. What a gas to watch the jeeper's eyes pop out!
It ended with everybody looking at each other's cars and a lot of laughing and groups of people hanging around. We had some folks from Toyota Japan and they were snapping pictures of the Jeeps and smiling from ear to ear. What a treat!
Another time, my brother Scott was out visiting and we tried to get through the trail in winter. At the beginning of the final climb, we were turned back by increasing snow depth. About a mile back toward the trail head, we came across a lifted K5 Blazer who'd gotten crossed up on a rock obstacle and was sitting on his frame with 3 young guys yanking and swearing. I stopped and waited for one of them to do the polite thing and wave, or walk over and apologize for blocking the trail. Nothing. They didn't want to acknowledge that some "jap" rig had gotten farther then they, apparently, and rightfully figured we'd have to get out and help them if we wanted to get by. Pointedly ignored us. I think we were in my personal '92 80 at the time (Scott - remember which?). Anyhow, I said "watch this - it will really piss them off".
Turning off the trail, we carefully picked our way through rocks the size of livingroom furniture and sidesloped downhill around them, then climbed back upslope toward the trail. I truly wasn't sure if we were going to make it without damage, and it was really terrain that required a good spotter. Fortunately, I picked the right lines and the way I remember it, we never even came to a full rest in all the bouncing and leaning as we eased around. Once back on the trail, I recall we briefly discussed offering to yank them but we decided they'd been a--holes to us so they could sit out there all night and think about it. We drove off!! Heh. Great memories.
Anyhow, that's a fun trail that will fully test any stock rig to the max, and has a few spots where an 80 driver might be tempted to reach for the little rotary switch....
DougM
Great stories Doug. I love it. 
-B-
(... and perfectly spelled, I might add.)
-B-
(... and perfectly spelled, I might add.)
Yes Doug, I agree. That story and your mountain biking tale are classics.
Makes me want to go wheeling.
How did you do in High School English? Better than me I think.
Makes me want to go wheeling.
How did you do in High School English? Better than me I think.
Doug
Great Story! Used to be a really great trail, but it has changed a lot since it is regulated by the Forrest Service. As soon as we have a moderate [don't laugh, L.A. does get a fair amount of snowfall in the local mountains] snowfall they will close the trail
A few things have changed since you have run this trail. You can't cruise down the creek / stream anymore and there aren't really any "Furniture" sized boulders anymore, that used to line the stream / creek.
Now, you enter the trail by crossing the stream / creek, and then make an immediate righthand turn and climb a steep, hill with a 25 to 30 ft drop off on the right to the stream. The trail then traverses back & forth up the hill & through the trees, which is a dirt trail with the occasional tree root, small rocks, and zig / zag through tight trees. The trail then crests the hillside and you cruise along the mountain ridge for a while, mostly through scrub brush flora and then you decend down to the base of kabob hill.
This decend used to be quite difficult as one small section of the trail was off-camber to the downside of the slope with nothing on the hillside to stop the roll!. Now this section has been graded and the trail decends quite easily with a couple of switchbacks to the valley basin.
This basin has a couple of other one way trails [in / turn-around / out] like "yellow jacket", etc., and makes a nice pinic area. The hill now has a weaving / traversing trail of tight turns / water run-off ruts and some rocks as you climb to the top. This hill used to be fun because you could go straight up the hill, which was challenging but now has been closed. Once you reach the top of the hill it changes again to a ridge run with a few minor switchbacks either deceding or ascending a few small hills, and then you finally reach the base of a fun little rocky climb.
This is the climb you mention at the end of the trail, which is fun jaunt up the hillside with lots of little rocks, rock shelves, occasional boulders, washouts & tree roots as you near the summit of Alamo mountain. This ends in a nice forrested area, which now has numerous forrest signs showing the way down the trail to a paved road. This road can lead out of the area to the 5 freeway, or to the motorcycle area, and / or to the small "testing" / "playing area", i.e. hillside climb, small rockpile, etc.
This is a great trail for practicing your driving skills or a good day of fun wheeling. It is a blast during the early winter / spring months with snow / ice and / or water run-off completely changes the trail. One local club has a run every year on Halloween night - Frightnight, which is a blast!
Joe
Great Story! Used to be a really great trail, but it has changed a lot since it is regulated by the Forrest Service. As soon as we have a moderate [don't laugh, L.A. does get a fair amount of snowfall in the local mountains] snowfall they will close the trail
A few things have changed since you have run this trail. You can't cruise down the creek / stream anymore and there aren't really any "Furniture" sized boulders anymore, that used to line the stream / creek.
Now, you enter the trail by crossing the stream / creek, and then make an immediate righthand turn and climb a steep, hill with a 25 to 30 ft drop off on the right to the stream. The trail then traverses back & forth up the hill & through the trees, which is a dirt trail with the occasional tree root, small rocks, and zig / zag through tight trees. The trail then crests the hillside and you cruise along the mountain ridge for a while, mostly through scrub brush flora and then you decend down to the base of kabob hill.
This decend used to be quite difficult as one small section of the trail was off-camber to the downside of the slope with nothing on the hillside to stop the roll!. Now this section has been graded and the trail decends quite easily with a couple of switchbacks to the valley basin.
This basin has a couple of other one way trails [in / turn-around / out] like "yellow jacket", etc., and makes a nice pinic area. The hill now has a weaving / traversing trail of tight turns / water run-off ruts and some rocks as you climb to the top. This hill used to be fun because you could go straight up the hill, which was challenging but now has been closed. Once you reach the top of the hill it changes again to a ridge run with a few minor switchbacks either deceding or ascending a few small hills, and then you finally reach the base of a fun little rocky climb.
This is the climb you mention at the end of the trail, which is fun jaunt up the hillside with lots of little rocks, rock shelves, occasional boulders, washouts & tree roots as you near the summit of Alamo mountain. This ends in a nice forrested area, which now has numerous forrest signs showing the way down the trail to a paved road. This road can lead out of the area to the 5 freeway, or to the motorcycle area, and / or to the small "testing" / "playing area", i.e. hillside climb, small rockpile, etc.
This is a great trail for practicing your driving skills or a good day of fun wheeling. It is a blast during the early winter / spring months with snow / ice and / or water run-off completely changes the trail. One local club has a run every year on Halloween night - Frightnight, which is a blast!
Joe
Joe,
I meant to clarify that I've been through the new layout now as well. It was one of those head scratching Twilight Zone things most of the way through. The beginning looked as normal leaving the dirt parking lot, then you hit the creek in 50 feet and "whaa....?" I literally backed up and went back out, then came back in to reassure myself I wasn't dreaming. Was running the trail grumbling to a couple buddies on the radio about this great lunch spot we used to use when I realized we were reconnecting with the old trail precisely at the lunch spot (that flat grassy area next to the creek with the big old shade trees at the base of Kabob Hill).
I did some factory trips for Isuzu and we tried to get a pair of new Rodeo Sports (nee Amigo) through. Had a rough time with the entry hill, then a couple of other spots as well. But after the lunch spot, we made it about 100 yards as the trail takes on the more serious nature it used to have full length and again started having clearance issues. Then tore a tire and elected to turn back. The trail was not done with us as we then almost could not get one vehicle up the hill that drops you into the lunch spot - the deepest gravel I've ever driven on. I have some funny video of the RS following me trying nearly 20 times clipped to him stopping and getting stuck each time.
So, do you also remember Coyote Canyon when it used to go all the way through? This is accessed by leaving the town of Borrego (which is North of the Anza-Borrego desert) and heading north into a canyon. While not as difficult this still ranks as the most beautiful canyon trail I've ever been on. About 8 years ago, they blocked it so you can go only halfway up then must come back out the same way.
Great stuff.
I may or may not have participated in a crazy stunt to try and make it from the Mexican border to the Anza Borrego desert in a prototype Mitsubishi Montero years ago as well. Can't remember the freeway that runs along close to the border, but we literally waited until there was no traffic in sight, then dropped right off the freeway and tried to disappear Northbound. For those who've never tried literally bushwacking in a 4WD it is tougher than it looks. We got all crossed up in the maze of arryos and seasonal streambeds back there and I cannot remember exactly how it ended, but it was dark and we'd only made a dozen miles northward through open desert and had at least 2 bumper tips and all 4 mudflaps rattling around in the cargo area.
This is starting to become a S California trails thread. Ever do the Dropoff in Anza Borrego? Ya gotta make it through the Squeeze first, and yes an 80 with the mirrors folded in will fit if you hold your breath for that last sideways step and close your eyes as your roof dances with that paint scarred rock...
DougM
I meant to clarify that I've been through the new layout now as well. It was one of those head scratching Twilight Zone things most of the way through. The beginning looked as normal leaving the dirt parking lot, then you hit the creek in 50 feet and "whaa....?" I literally backed up and went back out, then came back in to reassure myself I wasn't dreaming. Was running the trail grumbling to a couple buddies on the radio about this great lunch spot we used to use when I realized we were reconnecting with the old trail precisely at the lunch spot (that flat grassy area next to the creek with the big old shade trees at the base of Kabob Hill).
I did some factory trips for Isuzu and we tried to get a pair of new Rodeo Sports (nee Amigo) through. Had a rough time with the entry hill, then a couple of other spots as well. But after the lunch spot, we made it about 100 yards as the trail takes on the more serious nature it used to have full length and again started having clearance issues. Then tore a tire and elected to turn back. The trail was not done with us as we then almost could not get one vehicle up the hill that drops you into the lunch spot - the deepest gravel I've ever driven on. I have some funny video of the RS following me trying nearly 20 times clipped to him stopping and getting stuck each time.
So, do you also remember Coyote Canyon when it used to go all the way through? This is accessed by leaving the town of Borrego (which is North of the Anza-Borrego desert) and heading north into a canyon. While not as difficult this still ranks as the most beautiful canyon trail I've ever been on. About 8 years ago, they blocked it so you can go only halfway up then must come back out the same way.
Great stuff.
I may or may not have participated in a crazy stunt to try and make it from the Mexican border to the Anza Borrego desert in a prototype Mitsubishi Montero years ago as well. Can't remember the freeway that runs along close to the border, but we literally waited until there was no traffic in sight, then dropped right off the freeway and tried to disappear Northbound. For those who've never tried literally bushwacking in a 4WD it is tougher than it looks. We got all crossed up in the maze of arryos and seasonal streambeds back there and I cannot remember exactly how it ended, but it was dark and we'd only made a dozen miles northward through open desert and had at least 2 bumper tips and all 4 mudflaps rattling around in the cargo area.
This is starting to become a S California trails thread. Ever do the Dropoff in Anza Borrego? Ya gotta make it through the Squeeze first, and yes an 80 with the mirrors folded in will fit if you hold your breath for that last sideways step and close your eyes as your roof dances with that paint scarred rock...
DougM
