Heater T's failure - fixed with PEX t's
- Thread starter Scottb4857
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No, nothing special. You can either button everything up and ensure the expansion tank is full and let the system self purge through one or two engine heating/cooling cycles - it will draw fluid out of the expansion tank so just make sure that level doesn't get too low. Or you can burp by taking the radiator cap off, run the engine up to hot so the thermostat opens and top off the radiator level. Cap back on, set expansion tank level and you're good to go. Regardless how you do it I'd recommend checking the expansion tank after a hot/cool engine cycle.
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I'm a long time lurker, first time poster, with a 2002 LC 100 that came over from Phoenix to Alberta a year ago (164000 miles right now). Hopefully this isn't a thread hijack (It's on topic).
I found this particular thread after being stranded by the cruiser on Friday due to my Heater T deteriorating to the point of failure. Luckily I was at a gas station and noticed the drips on the ground which turned out to be a cracked T that completely disintegrated on touching it. The texture of the 3 ends of the T were almost like damp hardboard, and I’m afraid to say that I lost some of the pieces back into the system during removal.
How damaging are these small pieces likely to be? I would say that a third of one of the ends has been lost (perhaps in 3 chunks of 10mm by 5mm or so). Would that lock up my water pump, or block a critical galley? I had a new timing belt / coolant just last week.
I have the replacement T’s from a dealership and the car is currently at a farm 300km away from home. I’m with the car now and want to fit these, top up the coolant and get on the road again. Towing charges back to a mechanic would be significant.
Is there significant risk in attempting to start / drive and perhaps a flush in the near future?
Many Thanks
Jonathan.
I found this particular thread after being stranded by the cruiser on Friday due to my Heater T deteriorating to the point of failure. Luckily I was at a gas station and noticed the drips on the ground which turned out to be a cracked T that completely disintegrated on touching it. The texture of the 3 ends of the T were almost like damp hardboard, and I’m afraid to say that I lost some of the pieces back into the system during removal.
How damaging are these small pieces likely to be? I would say that a third of one of the ends has been lost (perhaps in 3 chunks of 10mm by 5mm or so). Would that lock up my water pump, or block a critical galley? I had a new timing belt / coolant just last week.
I have the replacement T’s from a dealership and the car is currently at a farm 300km away from home. I’m with the car now and want to fit these, top up the coolant and get on the road again. Towing charges back to a mechanic would be significant.
Is there significant risk in attempting to start / drive and perhaps a flush in the near future?
Many Thanks
Jonathan.
@JonGregory Are you sure you lost the broken pieces? I thought mine was lost too when I separate the T from the hoses, but the broken pieces were actually stuck inside the hoses. But maybe mine was not in as bad condition as yours.
Unfortunately I do not know the answer, but hopefully someone with more knowledge would chime in here.
Wishing for a good outcome for you!
Chris
Unfortunately I do not know the answer, but hopefully someone with more knowledge would chime in here.
Wishing for a good outcome for you!
Chris
- Thread starter
- #25
If the truck hasn't already been run then just take the hoses off and fish out the pieces, or use a wet/dry vacuum and suck them out. I wouldn't worry about the water pump with the pieces, the impeller would obliterate them as they are so soft but I would be more concerned about blocking a coolant passage and ending up with severe hot spots I the engine.
I'm pretty sure I lost some of them. I made the mistake of squeezing the end of the hose with the broken end of the T in there, and that squeezing broke it into many pieces. It was in the 'vertical' hose so I'm sure a bunch went straight down. I fished around but the end of the hose was clear.
I have spoken to the LC specialist (In Edmonton) who changed the timing belt last week to ask his advice and he really didn't think the Water pump would have problems in passing the degraded small pieces. I have (in the last hour) fitted the T, topped up the coolant and ran it on tickover for 20mins. Temp gauge after warm up was higher than I've seen before, but after a while (system burp?) it dropped. The replaced T is hot to the touch but only cool air from the interior heater, despite calling for max hot. I'm guessing an air lock.
I'll run it through a couple of heat / cool cycles to stabilize the coolant level and cross my fingers.
I have spoken to the LC specialist (In Edmonton) who changed the timing belt last week to ask his advice and he really didn't think the Water pump would have problems in passing the degraded small pieces. I have (in the last hour) fitted the T, topped up the coolant and ran it on tickover for 20mins. Temp gauge after warm up was higher than I've seen before, but after a while (system burp?) it dropped. The replaced T is hot to the touch but only cool air from the interior heater, despite calling for max hot. I'm guessing an air lock.
I'll run it through a couple of heat / cool cycles to stabilize the coolant level and cross my fingers.
The interior heater is close to the bottom of the cooling system. The rear heater is hot at all times, fan controls heat released to the interior.
Steve
Thanks for the replies to my problem. I've now driven the vehicle 100 miles or so, topped up the overflow with Toyota red and hope to be good for the long haul. I do need to change out the second T when I get back to my own garage though. I'll post a newbie intro post shortly with some pics.
Can anyone post pictures of the T's before change and what they look like ... Mine look pretty good for 225K , but I am guessing you cant see the part that is breaking down as it is hidden in the tube. May be mine where changed at some point...? I guess I will have to get in there and just change them to brass.
Changed mine at 100k just to be safe, they honestly looked fine:
(the ends broke off as I pulled them from the hose)
(the ends broke off as I pulled them from the hose)
Mine at 164000K (2002) looked like the OP pics (first post in this thread). Black in the centre of the T, but each of the three ends was a light brown crumbly mess, with the consistency of damp hardboard. The vehicle lived its first 12 years in Phoenix.
Use the OEM T's, Toyota made them out of plastic for a reason: galvanic corrosion. The problem here is not ethylene glycol playing nice with the brass, it is with the brass in the T's and aluminum in your radiator and heater core playing nice. It only takes a small piece of zinc to protect a very large area of a dam. So even though the area of the brass exposed may be small, it may still wreak havoc. So unless you and Le Verrier plan on driving your cruiser to Vulcan your cooling system will probably operate perfectly within the temperature and pressure limits Toyota designed the OEM T's for, and 100-150k from now you can replace them again.
I get what you're saying and you are right, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here. There is already brass in constant contact with the coolant in the form of a coolant temp sensor. While it is not as much of a surface area of brass touching the coolant as the tees, many cooling systems across many manufacturers have had good years of service. That's not to say the corrosion is not on a microscopic level, but is it really that much of an issue to worry about in these systems?
- Thread starter
- #34
Like Erm says, maybe on a very minute microscopic level there is some corrosion, but it would be much more likely due to contaminants and impurities in the systems then the aluminum / brass interaction via the coolant only. Now if somehow the brass tees were in physical contact with the aluminum surface, and additionally held in place by something like a stainless steel bolt/nut, and we had used some conditioned tap water with high levels of sodium and other electrolytes, then we would have to worry about galvanic corrosion. Given the separation of both distance and non reactive materials such as heater hoses, along with the fact that the coolant is extremely non-reactive, makes it very unlikely that either the t or the radiator could suffer any ill effects for decades of time due to this interaction alone. Besides, think about all the other potential interactions that also exist, steel in the block, copper and/or brass in sensors and thermostats, solders in the radiator, different grades of aluminum in various parts, etc...
IMO I don't think it was galvanic corrosion why they are made of plastic, it is most likely because it is cheaper. I also doubt that anyone thought to test to see what happened to that particular grade of thermo-formed plastic after many years and thousands of heat cycles.
In the end though it's your vehicle so do what you want. I started this thread as a solution to "Oh
, they broke at a very inconvenient time" how can I get this fixed when I can't get to the dealer. Three months later is performing flawlessly. In a year or three I'll take it apart to inspect just for the fun of it and will report back then.
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Brass, and to a lesser extent aluminum, have been in contact with glycol coolant forever...I'd agree with Scottb4857's comment that it's a major stretch to worry about galvanic corrosion until / unless changing coolant regularly has been completely neglected.
Toyota's reason for making the T's out of plastic is more related to cost than any other factors I can think of...Obviously, plastic T's are cheaper to manufacture than metal T's...If they were metal, they'd be non-standard parts as the hoses connecting to them have different diameters on the run v. the T.
Steve
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
@JonGregory - I would think the pieces would end up in the radiator, at the entrance to the core where the pieces would be too big to pass through the passages. The top tank is pretty wide, so I think this would be manageable until you could flush the system.
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
Further, what are the heater cores made of? Brass? Or are they plastic and aluminum now?
@Scottb4857 are you still using these T's? If so, any leaks / issues? I have my old T's removed, shop vac'd the hoses, and new OEM's waiting to be installed ..but there's just something about reinstalling the same material that crumbled into pieces that bothers me.
I'm also flushing my coolant and going to pick up the Prestone kit. Thanks for the helpful thread.
I'm also flushing my coolant and going to pick up the Prestone kit. Thanks for the helpful thread.
Make the t's replacement more frequent, pretty sure it's listed to be replaced with TB. Don't wait 15 years and 200k, like most of us.
- Thread starter
- #40
@wpsfan - Yep, still in the beast. One year and about 18k miles later look exactly like they did the day I installed them. Was planning on changing them to OEM's when I first did this, but now leaving them in as a lets see what happens. I lasted check them before and after a 1000 mile trip to Floriduhh! a couple weeks back. Also, when I check the coolant level in the expansion tank it hasn't moved 1/8" in last year so I'm fairly confident nothing is leaking anywhere.
If you already have the OEM's I'd just put them in. Even if you have an 07 that means they have been good for 9 years and you can try the PEX solution in 5 years or so when you have to even begin worrying about them again.
If you already have the OEM's I'd just put them in. Even if you have an 07 that means they have been good for 9 years and you can try the PEX solution in 5 years or so when you have to even begin worrying about them again.
