H55 grinding woes...

[gmgardner99]

I've just completed the H55 5 speed swap for my A440 Auto on my 89 FJ62. The install went well but I'm having issues with shifting and gears grinding. I've tried to read all the issues others have had with the swap but I don't think I'm having the same ones. Not stuck in gear, and shifter bushings are intact. Slight whining sound, but nothing drastic, just louder than more noise than I expected with synthetic oil.

The Problem: The transmission doesn't shift all that well, and kind of tough to find and pull right into the gears. If I linger the shift at all (from neutral all the way into the gear) it will start grinding right after the shifter passes the notch out of neutral. Its really bad in 4th gear, and often happens in 2nd gear.

DETAILS:
- Although it was used the transmission has very few miles on it, and was purchased new by the PO in the fall of 2011. I picked it up when he was parting out his truck from an accident, complete with flywheel and clutch. I've installed a new master cylinder and slave cylinder.
- I tried adjusting the freeplay on the clutch pedal. Whether at the top of the stroke or the bottom the issue persists
- All internals are like new. All the plastic bushings on the shifter are intact
- Used Amsoil Synthetic Transmission Fluid

Any ideas, Is this normal?

 

[woytovich]

Not normal... sounds like a clutch adjustment is needed. It sounds like it is not disengaging enough. Adjust the clutch slave cylinder AND the pedal. Maybe need to bleed the clutch system too?

 

[gmgardner99]

Thanks Woytovich. When looking at the clutch/pressure plate with the inspection cover off, it doesn't look like the clutch fork is moving very much (slave cylinder has a short throw) and I can believe that the clutch is not fully releasing. I've bleed the clutch out 3 times now because I thought for sure that there was air in the line causing the short throw. I used all post 85 master cylinder and slave cylinder so no adjustment on the slave cylinder end.

On the pedal end and adjusting free play, the only way for me to get more adjustment out of the pedal would be to bring the clutch pedal up significantly in front of the brake pedal. Did anyone else have to do that as well, or do the pedals generally align?

I've read a little bit about shifting fork misalignment and removing the cover to fix. However it sounds like either there will be a major issue and things wont shift at all, or it will go through all the gears and everything is good. Is there a middle ground that pulling the cover will help me adjust the shifting alignment?

 

[doug720]

Two things come to mind;

The clutch disc has a front and rear, when installed back words it can act as you described

There are also 2 different clutch slave cylinders, long and short, plus related parts. The change occurred around mid to late 1985. Depending on your set up and the parts you used, this could your issue.

Hope this helps.

Doug

 

[klinetime574]

Don't know what you mean by synthetic transmission fluid. H55 should use gear oil like an H41 or H42. I use 85W-140 that I can pick up at O'Reilly's. Just want to be sure we cover all the bases.

You need to set the pedal height, then adjust pedal free play. Since you are using the fixed rod slave cylinder you can't adjust that. You may need more throw it sounds like though.

I'm seeing the pedal height as 7.13 inches. My pedals are all around the same height in my 1984.

Good stuff here. Hope we can help you get this fixed

 

[hj 60]

All pedals are one lineup. Stop driving as you are going worse in a fast way I think, sorry.
When my clutch master broke down (that is the engine side) the pedal was a bit mushy strange (stepping in dog**** style) but everything shifted perfect.
I drove around until the part was delivered.
shifter bushings = the plastic ring and thingy under the shifstick right, we are talking about the same as these can break down and have (rear) shift trouble.
If reverse and 5th gear are difficult renew the shift SEAT 33505-60011
And BUSH SHIFT LEVER 33548-60020

 

[gmgardner99]

I used the Amsoil 75W-90 GL4 Manual Transmission Gear Lube, recommended by some Mud members. Great information on the pedal adjustment. I will check those distances and travels this evening. Is that from the FSM?

I wondered which side of the clutch disc was front/rear, but it would only go in one way without the springs rubbing on the flywheel. I believe that the disc is mostly flat on one side, and the splines protrude about 1/2" on the other side. My recollection is that the extended spline side is facing the rear, but on a dry fit, it seemed that it could only have gone one way.

I definitely ordered the late '85-87 slave & master cylinder, but i will double check the part numbers. The slave cylinder came with the non-adjustable shaft, so I thought it was the correct one. I will follow up once I verify the part. Side question, do the late 80's slave cylinders have a spring that retains the clutch fork to the slave cylinder?

The pedal has good pressure. The plastic consumables are in great shape, just as new.

 

[dallen341]

Was the pilot bearing lubricated? If the input shaft is being "driven" during a shift due to a dry pilot bearing the tranny will shift hard.

 

[woytovich]

Was the pilot bearing lubricated? If the input shaft is being "driven" during a shift due to a dry pilot bearing the tranny will shift hard.

Pilot bearings are sealed bearings - if it was new it would have been lubricated (unless it was somehow bad)

 

[gmgardner99]

I didn't lube the pilot bearing. I thought that was a dry connection to the input shaft, and then the sealed bearing did all the work?

Was the pilot bearing lubricated? If the input shaft is being "driven" during a shift due to a dry pilot bearing the tranny will shift hard.

Separate but related question: I did have to get a used clutch release bearing hub. It didn't fit tight to the input shaft, almost a 1/16" larger diameter so it had some play after the transmission was set in place. Is it supposed to be a tight fit on the transmission input shaft?

 

[dallen341]

thinking old school brass bushing style. Been years since I had a a transmission out so was not aware.

Pilot bearings are sealed bearings - if it was new it would have been lubricated (unless it was somehow bad)

 

[woytovich]

Separate but related question: I did have to get a used clutch release bearing hub. It didn't fit tight to the input shaft, almost a 1/16" larger diameter so it had some play after the transmission was set in place. Is it supposed to be a tight fit on the transmission input shaft?

I would think this is the source of your noise. That bearing should be a perfect fit on the shaft...

 

[PabloCruise]

I would think this is the source of your noise. That bearing should be a perfect fit on the shaft...

Ugh. Sounds like more dis-assembly than you would like after doing all the work to swap out a 440 w/ H55.

 

[klinetime574]

I used the Amsoil 75W-90 GL4 Manual Transmission Gear Lube, recommended by some Mud members. Great information on the pedal adjustment. I will check those distances and travels this evening. Is that from the FSM?

I definitely ordered the late '85-87 slave & master cylinder, but i will double check the part numbers. The slave cylinder came with the non-adjustable shaft, so I thought it was the correct one. I will follow up once I verify the part. Side question, do the late 80's slave cylinders have a spring that retains the clutch fork to the slave cylinder?

The pedal has good pressure. The plastic consumables are in great shape, just as new.

You're good on the fluid.

The late FJ60 had a fixed slave cylinder rod. No return spring on it. If you're using one get rid of it.

The early system is designed to pull the TOB away from the pressure plate. Later version (yours) should always be contacting the pressure plate. If you're using a spring it is pulling the TOB away and you need a longer throw because of that. So once again if you have a late model slave cylinder with fixed rod get rid of the spring.

About the hub. It "rides" on the front bearing retainer shaft of the transmission. As long as the throwout bearing fits snugly on the hub you're good to go.

HTH

 

[gmgardner99]

I removed the spring on the slave cylinder, and the pedal was adjusted just as described in the diagram. Gears are still pretty clunky and can grind when taking it too slow.

I know that the grinding is not right and has a solution. The gear/bearing noise is actually the most annoying. For a basically new transmission and a rebuilt transfer case shouldn't it be completely quiet, or am I just being to sensitive to all the new issues? I didn't build the case, it came attached and was put there by the shop the PO had it put together from. I don't think my previous split case and auto transmission made hardly any noise. It sounds a lot like a really old FJ40 screaming because its geared too low.

 

[woytovich]

For what it is worth I am experiencing some similar noise issues with my new H55/ToyBox/Split Case. An odd whine and more noise than I expected. I need to adjust my clutch - again - as I get a bit of a grind now and then. The whine... I dunno. I am afraid there is something up with the ToyBox but it might just be "normal" and I am being overly sensitive. There is also an issue because the shift boots are not all in place allowing a lot more noise up to my ears than there will normally be.

You are not alone.

 

[Hulsty]

I had a similar problem which turned out to be a bent pressure plate not disengaging properly, can happen easily if gearbox is not fully supported during the install before bolted up.

 

[klinetime574]

I wonder what this could be. If you're having trouble getting it in gear it has to be transmission related. The transfer-case could make noise but would not make it difficult to get in gear.

Do all gears work correctly? Once you're into them that is.

I just had a thought. I recently got my H42 transmission rebuilt and it was assembled incorrectly. 4th gear was locking up and would not allow a neutral to occur. When the transmission output was pulled back by tightening the nut things would work a little better. And in various stages of messing with it I was getting grinding in second. Once it was assembled correctly everything worked.

Check the torque on that nut. If it is similar to my H42 it should be a 36mm and torqued to 110ft/lbs IIRC. Remove the rear cover that is on the back side of the split case and you'll see it.

 

[FJ40Jim]

I removed the spring on the slave cylinder, and the pedal was adjusted just as described in the diagram. Gears are still pretty clunky and can grind when taking it too slow.

Removed what spring?

On the 85-later clutch mechanism, there is no external return spring, no hole in the end of the fork to attach a spring, no bracket on the slave cylinder to attach spring...

If there is a mismatch of parts, say an 86 BH, 84 release fork and an 86 slave, then things will not play nicely together.

Pics of the BH and slave and release fork would be helpful.

 

[gmgardner99]

Removed what spring?

On the 85-later clutch mechanism, there is no external return spring, no hole in the end of the fork to attach a spring, no bracket on the slave cylinder to attach spring...

If there is a mismatch of parts, say an 86 BH, 84 release fork and an 86 slave, then things will not play nicely together.

Pics of the BH and slave and release fork would be helpful.

The PO shorted me a few odds & ends when he sent me all the parts out of his truck. Nuts & bolts and the TOB & Hub. I assumed I was missing the spring and the bracket that it hooked to, and made something work until I got the "correct" parts. The fork didn't have a hole for the spring, I did think that strange as I just hocked a spring on the backside of the fork profile...

I'll do some more work tonight, pull the inspection cover and take some photo's with dimensions.