H41/Orion combo... (2 Viewers)

[chattfj40]

actually I've got 4.88s so that'd be 96.63:1

For those that are interested in my reasonings for this swap its pretty simple. Last couple years I've done alot to the cruiser...see my sig, and the stock drivetrain just isn't low enough with 38.5 Sxs...my clutch or lack thereof proves this

So, to go lower I had several options, but by far the simplest is the H41/Orion since its basically a bolt in setup without the associated driveline changes of the SM420/465/toybox/etc. The toybox was an option but, I have no interest in moving the gas tank (its an 80) so that was out.

So this will drop right in and if all goes to plan, I shouldn't have to make and driveline changes.

 

[Josie'sLandCruiser]

Hi All:

Steve, you are correct - it is a "dead" issue; I was referring to the deep gearing more than anything, but did not feel I could write that he was "happy" with the Orion without mentioning the pop out of gear issues.

Max has not dealt with the Orion in his FJ40 yet, but it is because of other "issues" interferring with his time.

I look forward to hopefully someday being able to afford the $$ for the Orion swap! All of us Land Cruiser owners are indebited to folks like you, "Treeroot," etc. who have researched the issues with the first run of Orions and helped AA resolve those issues.

Regards,

Alan
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Which really is a dead issue Alan.



Max must not have installed any of the pieces supplied by Advance Adapters (which I am pretty sure the pieces have been available for over a year now) that have been discussed to great length out here which would remedy his transfer case. I am not aware of anyone that has gone through the process of installing the back-cut high speed gear, stepped thrust washers, and shift rail components that is continuing to have this issue. Further, there are people, myself included, that have assembled the Orion WITHOUT the update pieces listed above, and they are not popping out of gear.



Max has all of this information and the parts available to him, just like anyone else that has purchased one of these. It would be in his best interest to install these pieces, along with a new main shaft and shift collar, and be done with this.

 

[Mark W]

. Further, there are people, myself included, that have assembled the Orion WITHOUT the update pieces listed above, and they are not popping out of gear.

I'd be one of those. Assembled one of the earlier Orions (#38) with NO parts in less than new condition and have not had a single problem with it.


Mark...

 

[honk]

I'd be one of those. Assembled one of the earlier Orions (#38) with NO parts in less than new condition and have not had a single problem with it.
Mark...

Which facts lead to my wondering whether there ever was an issue with the Orion which was not the result of either operator error or 'economical' assembly.

Although I decided not to buy one when they came out because it seemed that there were bugs that needed solving I now think that it'd been OK to go with it so long as new shift collar, fork, and detent rod were put in.

Would I be far wrong in saying that the Orion was a good product when introduced, and a better one today? I'm kicking myself some for being hesitant to buy one at the outset

as it is I have an H41 (which came from SOR looking just like the one pictured here) and the 3 speed transfer case gearing for something like 52:1 overall.

It's somewhat gratifying to see that it's now accepted that the case of the H41 and H42 are the same. I'd posted that I thought so long ago and was firmly instructed otherwise by various so-called "gurus". Neener-neener.

(For those wondering if you might have an H41 already: The H41 is designated on some vehicle data plates. I got one in my '77 BJ40 which is direct from Japan. That's not to say that all BJ series trucks got it - I think the NA market diesels have the H42 in most cases, as do the NA (North America) gassers, FJ series. It's a foriegn goodie)

 

[Poser]

New main shafts do not come with the needle bearing assembly so this needed to be installed. Cleaned off the anti-rust coating that comes on the new shaft with lacquer thinner, wiped it down and installed the bearing with the use of the press. The socket was used as a driver since it slipped into the bearing bore without touching and seated on the roller bearing well without touching the inner rollers.

 

[Poser]

Next three are of the main shaft and high speed gear. First one is the assembly lube that AA sends with the kit and how I use it.

The next two are of the high speed gear on the shaft with the stepped thrust washer.

When assembling these, you can usually drop the washer on and feel the amount of free play there is on the shaft between the thrust washer, gear, and drive section of the main shaft. The deep side of the thrust washer is cut to .015-.017” and the thin side is between .008” and .010”. The deep side of the thrust washer was not going to be used as it left no free play at all, and the thin side felt tight without the bearing pressed on, but I decided to give it a try and see where we were.

 

[Poser]

Installing the high speed gear, stepped thrust washer and bearing on the main shaft using the press and tool provided by AA:

 

[Poser]

So I found out that even using the thinnest side of the stepped thrust washers was not going to work. So I removed the gear, thrust washer and bearing from the shaft using the press again, and installed a stock thrust washer without a step. This provided .009” clearance. This value is also verified after the main shaft and gear assembly is installed in the case after the pre load is set.

 

[Poser]

So next we need the nose cone. This is a late model, 1977 and later, iirc, that has the reinforcing ribs cast into it, opposed to the earlier, smooth sided nose cone. The housing was bead blasted and cleaned. The old race was driven out with a long bearing punch and the new race was installed. Make sure that the race is seated into the bearing bore in the nose cone, or it will create inaccuracies and inconsistencies when trying to set the main shaft bearing pre load.

 

[Poser]

Next is the front output or nose cone bearing and front output shaft. I am using a 1978 and later fine spline front output shaft for this build. I just used a soft face hammer and drove the shaft into the bearing as it does not take that much force to install typically.

 

[Poser]

Next the bearing and shaft are driven into the nose cone and the snap ring is installed, and then the front output shaft seal is installed.

 

[mustardfj40]

Nice! Wish I was the lucky dude who got to see his Orion/H41 combo built up professionally and documented on the net

 

[JJS]

Drooool...

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Trollhole]

Too bad there is not a drool smiley.

 

[Poser]

Next we need to put the range selector collar on the main shaft, and put a little assembly lube on the bushing journal of the main shaft and the low speed gear bushing.

 

[Poser]

Then you will install the low speed gear into the transfer case housing by sliding it between the counter shaft gears and tucking it into a machined relief in the side of the housing. Now the main shaft assembly containing the range selector collar, high speed gear and front main shaft bearing is slid into the low speed gear in the case from the front side.

 

[Poser]

With the main shaft now in the case, it is now time to install the 4wd shift collar, front output shaft and nose cone assembly. The gasket is placed on the nose cone and the housing is secured to the case with five bolts. I do not use any locktite on these fasteners until after I have the main shaft bearing preload accurately set. Note the orientation of the 4wd shift collar. The nose of it is installed towards the case, and not towards the front output shaft. If this is reversed, you will not be able to disengage the front drive shaft, and will likely struggle trying to get the shift fork from the front drive actuator into that collar and the bolts for the actuator into the holes used to secure it to the nose cone housing.

 

[Poser]

Now install your rear main shaft bearing thrust washer between the low speed gear and bearing, and then slide the bearing onto the shaft. I found that just like the front thrust washer, I could not use the stepped thrust washer and needed to use a stock piece. With the stock thrust washer I got .010” low speed gear free play, which is in the .008”-.012” recommended clearance.

 

[Poser]

The rear main shaft bearing will need to be driven on the main shaft with a hammer and the driver provided in the Orion kit from Advance Adapters.

 

[Poser]

After the rear output bearing is driven on the main shaft the race needs to be installed in the case. Put a little assembly lube that is provided on the race and drive it into the case. You will need to use a punch to seat the race to the roller assembly.