Group Buy on 1st Gen 4Runner Can-Back Soft Tops

[Charles4x4]

Hi, I am new to the 4Runner forums and just picked up a pristine ’87 4Runner SR5 Turbo from TX a week ago. We currently have 80 and 100 series land cruisers, but I wanted the 4Runner because it is light, nimble, and we can take the top off our kids.

After getting the new 4Runner, I started shopping for soft tops. I know Softopper and Killer Toy Tops make a great product, but I’ve always loved the look and quality of Can-Back and wanted to be able to support a roof rack. After researching, it looks like Can-Back is back in business, but our 1st Gen 4Runners are in the 2nd tier of vehicles they are designing. So this morning I called the new owner – Bryan Hibbetts – and started to investigate.

Good News – Bryan said that due to large demand for 2nd tier vehicle tops, they actually hired another designer to start focusing solely on these including our 1st Gen 4Runner which should be ready for initial shipment in June. I then asked Bryan about pricing – ours will be $2,300 for the top including the panel windows. This sounded steep, but Bryan said he would cut the pricing to $2,070 if we can get 10+ buyers via Group Buy.

If we have really strong demand, I’ll see if I can get him to cut a little more – maybe down to $2,000 even where the current Truck tops are priced. Now if this still sounds steep, it does to me too, but I know Can-Back is the best there is for a quality soft top and if I’m going to spend $1K+, I only want to buy the best top the first time. So, I’m putting my commitment and money in and would like to start a Group Buy. PM me if you are interested as well and I'll organize the group buy details with Can-Back for us.

Moderators, if this is not in the right place or I need to Edit the text, please let me know.

Group Buy on 1st Gen 4Runner Can-Back Soft Tops

Pricing: $2,070 (with a possibility I can get it down more)

Buyers Needed: 10+

Timing of initial shipments: June 2017

Organizer: Charles4x4 (me)

Can-Back Soft Top Details: Can-Back Canvas Camper Shell

Pictures Below (former product that will likely be mostly replicated and improved):

 

[Charles4x4]

I've been getting some feedback that Can-Back's pricing is high. So I called Bryan and asked him how this business model is going to work for them. Here was his direct feedback:

Who is your target buyer:
1) If buyers want the most affordable top on the market, they should buy a Softopper.
2) If buyers want the best product on the market, they should buy a Can-Back. Our buyers have pride in their 4Runner and only want the best products even if our business model excludes the value based buyer portion of the soft top market.

Why is it the best and how do you justify the price:
1) Original tops sold well at $1,200 a top. With inflation at 3% per year, that is $1,600 today. Instead of cutting value from our original tops, we found ways to make them even better and added more cost into them.
2) They used Vortex Threads (which are 3x the quality & price of regular threads at $60-100 per spool)
3) They use high grade Stainless Steel frames
4) They use Sunbrella Sea Mark fabric ($30/yard)
5) They use Strata Glass Vinyl for the 3 Side and Rear Windows (from high end yachts)


(I'm not an expert on soft top materials or design, so maybe others can explain #2-5 above further)

They tested the old tops and found that seams would begin to fail at 10 yrs, so the upgrades above should increase the life of the top to 20 or 25+ yrs, increase durability, and be the best top period that looks great 10 or 20 yrs down the line.

He was very candid - if your fellow members want an affordable top they should buy a Softopper. If they want the best, the will spend more and buy a Can-Back. He said they could have produced a $800 or $1,200 top, but it wouldn't have been up to Can-Back standards.

I'm not pushing a Can-Back - this is objective feedback that I'm simply passing along. I've got a pristine 4Runner that I plan to invest a lot in and I want the best product, so I'm willing to spend $2K to get a Can-Back that I only have to buy once.

I still think if we get enough members involved, I can get the price down more. Keep the feedback coming (positive or negative) and I hope the helps.

 

[Mudder]

You'd be better off to go to other forums with this. There is very little traffic besides maybe 10 people in this section.

 

[Charles4x4]

You'd be better off to go to other forums with this. There is very little traffic besides maybe 10 people in this section.

Thanks. It's posted on T4R and 4Runners. Any others?

 

[UltraFJ40]

Damn, I'd love to get in on this but first I need to find that elusive 1st Gen. It's one of only two trucks that I've never had that I want. The other being a little old Hilux.

My neighbor sold his early 2st Gen without telling me.

Good luck moving forward.

 

[Charles4x4]

Damn, I'd love to get in on this but first I need to find that elusive 1st Gen. It's one of only two trucks that I've never had that I want. The other being a little old Hilux.

My neighbor sold his early 2st Gen without telling me.

Good luck moving forward.

Just got mine last week. They're out there, but the good ones are few and far between.

 

[txlonghorn]

Marlin Crawler boards, pirate4x4, and yotatech are probably largest communities. However, I think your typical first gen owner is more of a DIY/spend as little as possible in getting what they want type. This has been my experience vs. the cruiser owners. Expedition portal has some owners that might fit the bill.

I'd love a top of this quality, as I'm in the same boat as you in my choices of parts for the 4R. But it's just a bit too much for me to splurge on at the moment.

 

[PhrogsPhorever]

I've been on their wait list, but if an accelerated delivery of the CanBack might happen, count me in.

Price is fine as long as the quality is the same as their old tops.

Add me to the list

 

[Charles4x4]

I've been on their wait list, but if an accelerated delivery of the CanBack might happen, count me in.

Price is fine as long as the quality is the same as their old tops.

Add me to the list

Great, that's 2/10. Let's keep it going.

 

[coryc85]

I've owned a Kayline soft top and now the Softopper, I guess I fall into the value shopper category. I love having a soft top, and the Softopper is pretty good, certainly much better than the Kayline. Some things I don't like about my Softopper:

1. Doesn't quite fit the rear corners as well as the Canback appears to, mine leaves a bit of an overhang that you can really just about fit your hand in. Softopper does give you a velcro strip that you can stick to your tailgate to hold down the flap and that might help, I did not use it. Hasn't been a huge enough issue for me to do something, but I don't like it.

2. The straps from rolling up the windows have scuffed the vinyl windows. This might happen to all tops I'm not sure, but still it bothers me.

Really those are the major things. Softopper windows can be ordered tinted, which I did, and you can get a screen panel in the rear instead of glass for sleeping in the truck. I have driven in the rain and the truck pretty much stays dry. It's like $900 shipped, so overall I'm happy with it.

I definitely think from the pictures the Canback looks like a better fit, and I guess being able to support a roof rack is nice (btw how much is the roof rack?). So given those things, I do think it is worth a premium and honestly if I didn't already have mine I'd be seriously considering the Canback. I appreciate you putting together the group buy and I'd love to see these come to market, I'm just not at a point to buy one right now.

 

[G-Cat]

While quality of products and craftsmanship is (likely) well worth the higher price, the aesthetics hand the win to Canback as well. The Soft Topper's (and Killer Toy Top's) rear slopes to the tailgate at a slight angle. The Canback's rear is nearly vertical, resembling the OEM hardtop and reminiscent of the OEM Soft Top on FJ-40 Land Cruisers.

 

[Charles4x4]

Really those are the major things. Softopper windows can be ordered tinted, which I did, and you can get a screen panel in the rear instead of glass for sleeping in the truck. I have driven in the rain and the truck pretty much stays dry. It's like $900 shipped, so overall I'm happy with it.

I definitely think from the pictures the Canback looks like a better fit, and I guess being able to support a roof rack is nice (btw how much is the roof rack?). So given those things, I do think it is worth a premium and honestly if I didn't already have mine I'd be seriously considering the Canback. I appreciate you putting together the group buy and I'd love to see these come to market, I'm just not at a point to buy one right now.

Thanks for the great feedback. The Can-Back will offer vinyl panels standard or screen or tinted vinyl as options. And the fact that the sides and rear wil zip off in the new is going to be nice.

I haven't priced the roof rack yet. I'll eventually do a build thread and will post there when I find the perfect one after getting the Can-Back this summer.

 

[Charles4x4]

While quality of products and craftsmanship is (likely) well worth the higher price, the aesthetics hand the win to Canback as well. The Soft Topper's (and Killer Toy Top's) rear slopes to the tailgate at a slight angle. The Canback's rear is nearly vertical, resembling the OEM hardtop and reminiscent of the OEM Soft Top on FJ-40 Land Cruisers.

I agree. The Can-back aesthetics and features are what sold it for me. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Capra]

What's the latest on this? Any bites from the other forums? I'd certainly be interested if the quality were there. I've read a few bad stories on the boards about the truck candy canbacks.

 

[Charles4x4]

What's the latest on this? Any bites from the other forums? I'd certainly be interested if the quality were there. I've read a few bad stories on the boards about the truck candy canbacks.

So far the feedback has been really positive on Can-Back. They have the best quality and a stellar reputation.

Only push back I'm seeing is price. It's easy to justify $2k on a $45k new truck. Much harder on a 31 yr old truck unless you have a rare exceptional condition one like mine and only want the best.

Right now we have 2 committed buyers and 1 committed for the top but no frame rails.

I think it'll pick up even more when the first production pics come out in a matter of weeks. I've got it posted on 4/5 targeted forums - this one and T4R are TG most active though. I'll post to YotaTech last - they are sensitive to group but posits from newer members so I'm building up my post count before I put it on there.

I'll keep everyone updated. Should I put you on the list as 3/10 for now? And you can fully decide when pics come out?

 

[Capra]

Yeah, put me on there and I'll keep an eye on the thread. Have you though about posting to Marlin? They don't get a whole lot of traffic, but I think there's quite a few 1st gens on there.

 

[Charles4x4]

Yeah, put me on there and I'll keep an eye on the thread. Have you though about posting to Marlin? They don't get a whole lot of traffic, but I think there's quite a few 1st gens on there.

Sounds good. And yes, it's on Marlin, T4R, 4runner, and here.

Group Buy on 1st Gen 4Runner Can-Back Soft Tops

 

[Charles4x4]

4/10 committed (1 dependent on pricing sub $2k) + 1 for soft top only no frame

 

[Charles4x4]

(Not sure why this was moved to Small Business...instead of the 95 and Older Section - Help?)

Quick Update: I spoke with Bryan at Can-Back last week and gave him an update on our commitments. I also asked when product pictures and additional details would be available and he said he is targeting a product detail release (including pictures) in Late May. Stay tuned.

 

[PhrogsPhorever]

Any movement from Can-Back?