great article about oil sludge
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Good info, You should post this in the 95+ section here, they will find this informative as well...
in 2000 i bought a brand new Honda, in the manual, it states change oil every 7500 miles. dealer called me in for a free oil change at 3000 miles. when they pulled my car out of their lot, the sticker on the windsheld showed next oil change due 5000 miles. as you can see right there, i was very confused.
i know for sure on a Benz E500 the first oil change is due at 12,000miles, M1 full synthetic oil only. it does take 9.5 qts of oil. they use cannster type filters.
i copied this from the article:
"Environmental pressures:
In the struggle to pass tougher federal emissions specifications, car manufacturers have raised engine operating temperatures and increased exhaust gas recirculation (EGR). In 1996, tighter federal emissions standards were enacted. Fuel mixtures have to run leaner, and leaner mixtures cause higher combustion temperatures. When nitrogen in the air is raised to higher temperatures it is converted into new contaminant cocktails. By 1997, sludge is appearing as a major problem. "
does this mean pre-1997 viechles are cool?
i know for sure on a Benz E500 the first oil change is due at 12,000miles, M1 full synthetic oil only. it does take 9.5 qts of oil. they use cannster type filters.
i copied this from the article:
"Environmental pressures:
In the struggle to pass tougher federal emissions specifications, car manufacturers have raised engine operating temperatures and increased exhaust gas recirculation (EGR). In 1996, tighter federal emissions standards were enacted. Fuel mixtures have to run leaner, and leaner mixtures cause higher combustion temperatures. When nitrogen in the air is raised to higher temperatures it is converted into new contaminant cocktails. By 1997, sludge is appearing as a major problem. "
does this mean pre-1997 viechles are cool?
My 2007 Toyota landcruiser diesel in the UK had it's first change at 10k and specifies every 10k thereafter, all synthetic. My wife's BMW and my daughter's Mini, every 12K, again synthetic (they are gas engines).
These types of sequences are pretty standard in Europe. I think the trick is to only use synthetic. I remember reading a consumer report study with cabs in New York City over a 2 year period (with some of them running up well over 150k miles) and they concluded, if I recall correctly, that normal oil was o.k up to 7500 and synthetic up to either 10k or 12k with no detrimental effects. I think 3000 for a modern engine is propoganda put out by the Jiffy Lube lobby.
These types of sequences are pretty standard in Europe. I think the trick is to only use synthetic. I remember reading a consumer report study with cabs in New York City over a 2 year period (with some of them running up well over 150k miles) and they concluded, if I recall correctly, that normal oil was o.k up to 7500 and synthetic up to either 10k or 12k with no detrimental effects. I think 3000 for a modern engine is propoganda put out by the Jiffy Lube lobby.
I can't swear by this myself, but my father-in-law runs about a half gallon of diesel fuel through his engine to clean it out before he puts the new oil in. Since he recommended it to me I've done the same with every oil change, and had no engine problems, but I'm also changing my oil every 3000 miles.
The pictures in this article are alarming, but I think out of the norm. I have had my share of engines apart and the only one the looked remotley like in the pictures was a 48' ford v8 flat head (old school oil, on filter and no pcv system) even at that it lasted 60 years.
The only way to truly understand what your change intervals should be is to have the oil anyalized by a lab at different intervals, it only costs $20 and tells you alot about how the motor is wearing, if coolant is leaking into the oil, even if there is a leaking injecter. blindly changing oil at 3000 miles or at 10,000 miles is not a wise decision and will cost you money either way , change it to often and you waste money and time, too little and you will ruin your motor.
Matt
The only way to truly understand what your change intervals should be is to have the oil anyalized by a lab at different intervals, it only costs $20 and tells you alot about how the motor is wearing, if coolant is leaking into the oil, even if there is a leaking injecter. blindly changing oil at 3000 miles or at 10,000 miles is not a wise decision and will cost you money either way , change it to often and you waste money and time, too little and you will ruin your motor.
Matt
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That article looks to be written by someone with an alarmist, probably $$$ driven agenda, it plays fast and loose with the "facts". Here are just a couple that are BS;
BS, Toyota had a couple of problems with a couple of motors, other than that most are 5,000 mile change. My LX450, 5,000 miles, a new Tacoma, 5,000 miles, etc.
BS, That is describing a bypass filter system, they went away what 40 years ago on production vehicles? All motors that I'm aware of now come with full flow filter systems, all of the oil that goes to the bearings, etc, first goes through the filter.
BS; Oil color can indicate oil problems, water in oil is white milky color. But darker, redder, etc color has zero indication of the condition of the oil, the only way to reliably know the oils properties is to have it tested. New looking oil can be bad and darker looking oil can be good. Darker or "the familiar red-brown color" oil isn't automatically causing your motor to be "irreversibly damaged".
For more info on oil than most will ever need read up on this forum;
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
The Article said:
BS, Toyota had a couple of problems with a couple of motors, other than that most are 5,000 mile change. My LX450, 5,000 miles, a new Tacoma, 5,000 miles, etc.
The Article said:
BS, That is describing a bypass filter system, they went away what 40 years ago on production vehicles? All motors that I'm aware of now come with full flow filter systems, all of the oil that goes to the bearings, etc, first goes through the filter.
The Article said:
BS; Oil color can indicate oil problems, water in oil is white milky color. But darker, redder, etc color has zero indication of the condition of the oil, the only way to reliably know the oils properties is to have it tested. New looking oil can be bad and darker looking oil can be good. Darker or "the familiar red-brown color" oil isn't automatically causing your motor to be "irreversibly damaged".
For more info on oil than most will ever need read up on this forum;
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
very good article.
Mbrantley, based on my experince, it is not uncommon.
i worked for a jeep dealer. we serviced all mopar.
many of the full size cars had this happen to them.
i remember one minivan coming in that had 30,000 miles on it. thing barley ran. generally at 30K everything fails on a chrysler.
but this one was a real piece of crap. i noticed abnormal sounds in the engine.
i pulled the valve cover and it looked very simalar to the BMW pic.
obviously the engine was scrap
the lady tried blaming us for the problem. so i opened her glove box to get the warranty info, if she bought extra covereage, and the owners manual was still sealed up in the bag. SEALED!
after a huge ordeal, she admitted to never changing the oil. onece. ever. in 30K miles!
said she didnt know. and by this point you could imagine wanting to say: if you would have opened the manual, you would have known that, ya dumb broad!
oil sludge is not uncommon.
and a few things that the article did not point out.
regardless of natural or synthetic oils, it absorbs acid. and acid is what breaks down seals and gaskets. so going over the 3K mark, is causing damage.
what is intersting, is the use of propane fuel instead of gasoline, you get much cleaner results with your oil.
Mbrantley, based on my experince, it is not uncommon.
i worked for a jeep dealer. we serviced all mopar.
many of the full size cars had this happen to them.
i remember one minivan coming in that had 30,000 miles on it. thing barley ran. generally at 30K everything fails on a chrysler.
but this one was a real piece of crap. i noticed abnormal sounds in the engine.
i pulled the valve cover and it looked very simalar to the BMW pic.
obviously the engine was scrap
the lady tried blaming us for the problem. so i opened her glove box to get the warranty info, if she bought extra covereage, and the owners manual was still sealed up in the bag. SEALED!
after a huge ordeal, she admitted to never changing the oil. onece. ever. in 30K miles!
said she didnt know. and by this point you could imagine wanting to say: if you would have opened the manual, you would have known that, ya dumb broad!
oil sludge is not uncommon.
and a few things that the article did not point out.
regardless of natural or synthetic oils, it absorbs acid. and acid is what breaks down seals and gaskets. so going over the 3K mark, is causing damage.
what is intersting, is the use of propane fuel instead of gasoline, you get much cleaner results with your oil.
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I agree 100%. For years I built motors for a living and my observation was the #1 cause of dirty motors was short trip driving. Yes, gross neglect of oil changes will cause problems, but a motor rarely or never run at operating temp will sludge up faster. AKA the little old lady driving syndrome.
Most of the contaminants, water, acids, fuel, etc boil off into a gas at operating temp, if the motor is run long enough they rise to the top of the motor and the breather system removes and burns them. If the motor is turned off before it runs at operating temp for a significant amount of time, as the motor cools the gases condense back to liquid and deposit, most of the time high in the motor. This is why most sludge is found in the valve cover.
One of our good customers had one of the last RWD Corollas, 3TC motor, great car! He was a traveling salesman and put a HUGE amount of miles on it. I always tried to talk him into changing the oil at 3K miles, his reply was I don't have time, what you want me to stop once a week and get it changed! He did good maintenance, but only put new Pennzoil in it at 10-12k mi. He went through a couple of drivers seats, several seat belts, etc. The last time I serviced it, it had over 500K on it, pulled the valve cover for the valve adjustment and most would have swore that it didn't have 50K on it, just a light yellow patina.