GPS (1 Viewer)

[LandCruiserPhil]

Not sure about Android or others, but Apple Ipad pro latest model and previous ones do not have true GPS. Nor do the Iphones. They use a made up version of GPS that uses wireless triangulation and strength measurements. Not GPS. YMMV. I'm confident in the GPS coordeinates provided by Bad Elf, they are quite different than what my Ipad and IPhone state.

I ran Bad Elf on my previous iPad and android with out cellular and didnt notice any difference when I switched to an iPad with cellular. Every GPS i have owned gives you the accuracy of your signal. We recently had to leave a vehicle in the dunes of Tunisia and used the ipad to mark it. Without GPS or a plane it would be near impossible to find. Went back the next day and me and other shared the same GPS reading as note then and the day before. So it may have some short comings but I dont see them.

Does the iPad have a "real GPS" in it? - iPad Pilot News
So “assisted GPS,” far from being a cheap version of GPS or an Apple marketing line, is actually a good thing. By using all the other sensors on the iPad, the GPS performance is improved. Make no mistake: the 3G/LTE iPad has a real GPS built-in.

 

[Dharma Dude]

Not sure about Android or others, but Apple Ipad pro latest model and previous ones do not have true GPS. Nor do the Iphones. They use a made up version of GPS that uses wireless triangulation and strength measurements. Not GPS. YMMV. I'm confident in the GPS coordeinates provided by Bad Elf, they are quite different than what my Ipad and IPhone state.

This is not true. All iPhones, iPads with cellular chipsets and all but the cheapest Android phones have true GPS. Their GPS may not perform as well due to having to fit less-than-optimal antennas into the phone enclosure. They all use Wifi and Cell signals to make GPS obtain a location fix faster but they do have true GPS.

 

[clx16]

In this ever expanding world of Software Defined Radio (SDR) we are seeing some really cleaver stuff with GPS (generic USA term) and the inclusion of other country positioning systems such as GLONASS which if you look at the specs on your newer devices, many support both US and Russian systems as well as some the Chinese systems for which they are all able to be used for better/faster calculations. As mentioned above a-gps is really fit for its name as it does assist to a large degree. It not only assists by making use of other information inputs from other radios, but it also pulls down data while connected which is saved to help you get a first time fix. This downloaded data is available offline but as i understand it, has a value for the area from which it was downloaded and a shelf life until it will need new updated data.

I think i've used most of the apps listed and find them all to be pretty strong, even the Magellan one seems to be very clever. Just things to avoid in the winter.... do not use vent mounts for phones and tablets as you are heating your phone which is already generating heat from navigation and screen use.

In the end, some good topo and forest service maps should be in paper form somewhere in your ride or you are just pushing it.

If you have some signal blocking tenting on your windows, a good bluetooth external GPS will always be a big help.

 

[Desert Dino]

I prefer Hema maps as it gives a lot of options. Download different layers to make sure you're covered. Most important, you're phone isn't a GPS unit and shouldn't be used as one. If you're serious about going off-road invest in a Bad Elf GPS unit that you can connect to your iPhone, ipad, tablet, etc. It is a much more accurate solution. I recently got my bad elf and it makes such a difference!

Dear @musthave this is ancient history, the chipset and hardware used in the tablets and smart phones are as accurate as they can be the your government is controlling the accuracy not the device

GPS.gov: GPS Accuracy

Exept on iphons IOS, Like previous iPad models, the new iPads come in versions that do and do not have a GPS chip. Apple controls the accuracy and they dont like you taking a few cans of tuna and your 80 and go off grid, a customer that is off grid dont spend money and couldn't be monitored for data mining , there is a work around i will get to that. iPhone or iPad to the accuracy is about 100 feet(about 30 meters), because Apple only stores GPS data down to the nearest second in latitude and longitude

Another bad thing Apple did is if you want GPS you need to bay the expansive model (with SIM) to get the GPS hardware installed F#$#k Apple.

the work around is installing GPS Data Management APP on your IOS divice ( and its good idea for Android too)

Civilian GPS The United States government currently claims 4 meter RMS (7.8 meter 95% Confidence Interval) horizontal accuracy for civilian (SPS) GPS. Vertical accuracyis worse. Mind you, that's the minimum. Some devices/locations reliably (95% of the time or better) can get 3 meter accuracy, Military GPS wil be 10 times better ( you need code !!!) and millitary grade Hardware most Chines android devices have it dormant and Hibernate.

 

[Broski]

@LandCruiserPhil I have seen yours so i will show you main

View attachment 1858523 View attachment 1858524

Theirs persuasion and then theirs Navigation

Interesting Dino, the parking Brake is on the other side of your center consul.

 

[Desert Dino]

Theirs persuasion and then theirs Navigation

Interesting Dino, the parking Brake is on the other side of your center consul.

@brosky Dont know the what is persuasion

Yes my rig was made by Toyota Japan but for European/ middle east market

 

[musthave]

Dear @musthave this is ancient history, the chipset and hardware used in the tablets and smart phones are as accurate as they can be the your government is controlling the accuracy not the device

GPS.gov: GPS Accuracy

Exept on iphons IOS, Like previous iPad models, the new iPads come in versions that do and do not have a GPS chip. Apple controls the accuracy and they dont like you taking a few cans of tuna and your 80 and go off grid, a customer that is off grid dont spend money and couldn't be monitored for data mining , there is a work around i will get to that. iPhone or iPad to the accuracy is about 100 feet(about 30 meters), because Apple only stores GPS data down to the nearest second in latitude and longitude

Another bad thing Apple did is if you want GPS you need to bay the expansive model (with SIM) to get the GPS hardware installed F#$#k Apple.

the work around is installing GPS Data Management APP on your IOS divice ( and its good idea for Android too)

Civilian GPS The United States government currently claims 4 meter RMS (7.8 meter 95% Confidence Interval) horizontal accuracy for civilian (SPS) GPS. Vertical accuracyis worse. Mind you, that's the minimum. Some devices/locations reliably (95% of the time or better) can get 3 meter accuracy, Military GPS wil be 10 times better ( you need code !!!) and millitary grade Hardware most Chines android devices have it dormant and Hibernate.

Military GPS merely uses a 2nd channel which allows for much better accuracy. I'm no expert, that's for certain, I can only speak to my experiences. I've had a brand new IPad Pro with Cellular / data / WiFi and I can be outside on top of a mountain and after a minute or three it locates me, when it does, it's pretty accurate. In the exact same location I've used the Bad Elf GPS and have GPS accurate to within a foot or two. Comparing the two of them numerous times I'm sold on the Bad Elf, Your Mileage May Vary! I'm not a sales rep for them, just my experience.

 

[george_tlc]

GPS tech is essentially free hardware-wise these days. Certainly anything other than the cheapest of android devices has a real GPS receiver built in - usually at minimum it supports the US constellation but many also at do Glonass or more as well. I'll bet that ipads/iphones have true GPS receivers as well.

I think a lot of folk get confused about 'GPS' since many phones have AGPS (assisted GPS) - and read that as meaning it is not real 'GPS'. In fact AGPS just means that the almanac can be fast tracked via the cell network or wifi connection (if present) to provide the local almanac data very quickly and thus give the GPS a very quick lock on time. If you are away from a cell network, it just means the almanac will be downloaded directly from the GPS constellation and that can take a 'while' and so the first lock on can be slow (minutes). But this is no worse than a conventional GPS receiver (non-cell connected) that is moved a long distance and needs to figure out where the heck it is or if it has been turned off for a long period (days/weeks etc) and the almanac is aged beyond use.

There's also a lot of misconception that devices use wifi or cell triangulation to give false GPS and there's no actual GPS receiver. Wifi and Cell can be used to give faster initial approximation of position (useful in urban canyons - high rise buildings that shadow satellite reception). The triangulation can also help to filter out possible multipath GPS based errors (due to reflections of GPS signals from various buildings etc that would lead to an erroneous position fix).

So, most modern tablets/phones have true GPS/Glonass/etc receivers, that also can and will use cell and wifi to improve the lock on time and accuracy (assuming they have a data connection).

The US military 'channel' is part of the same spread spectrum signal that the GPS satellites send, it is just that it is encrypted and can provide higher accuracy. This meant that ages ago the commercial channel could be purposefully dithered to prevent better than 100metre accuracy. That was permanently stopped during the clinton years (it was also temporarily turned off during desert storm due to the lack of sufficient military grade GPS units for the armed forces). Since those days, algorithms have improved such that the civilian GPS bands can easily provide metre level resolution or even better when using multiple satellites and combining data from the US GPS system and Glonass etc.

cheers,
george.

 

[Broski]

Gaia GPS is great. $30 for an annual subscription which gives you a ton of different map layers and features. Works across all platforms too.

View attachment 1858402

Now 40 a year

 

[FJ60Seth]

Thanks for all the good info. excuse my ignorance, do these need a cell signal to work

No

 

[SmoothLC]

Dear @musthave this is ancient history, the chipset and hardware used in the tablets and smart phones are as accurate as they can be the your government is controlling the accuracy not the device

GPS.gov: GPS Accuracy

Exept on iphons IOS, Like previous iPad models, the new iPads come in versions that do and do not have a GPS chip. Apple controls the accuracy and they dont like you taking a few cans of tuna and your 80 and go off grid, a customer that is off grid dont spend money and couldn't be monitored for data mining , there is a work around i will get to that. iPhone or iPad to the accuracy is about 100 feet(about 30 meters), because Apple only stores GPS data down to the nearest second in latitude and longitude

Another bad thing Apple did is if you want GPS you need to bay the expansive model (with SIM) to get the GPS hardware installed F#$#k Apple.

the work around is installing GPS Data Management APP on your IOS divice ( and its good idea for Android too)

Civilian GPS The United States government currently claims 4 meter RMS (7.8 meter 95% Confidence Interval) horizontal accuracy for civilian (SPS) GPS. Vertical accuracyis worse. Mind you, that's the minimum. Some devices/locations reliably (95% of the time or better) can get 3 meter accuracy, Military GPS wil be 10 times better ( you need code !!!) and millitary grade Hardware most Chines android devices have it dormant and Hibernate.

Yes any Cat 5 or 6 cable will work fine for the mic. Then just do a female/female coupler and plug your mic into it. That’s what Ive done for all my Icom installs over the years.

Do you have any recommendations and/or links to a "GPS Data Management APP" for Android?

 

[guardcompany]

Do you have any recommendations and/or links to a "GPS Data Management APP" for Android?

I think you quoted me on accident. But while I am here... I've been a GPS nerd since the first Garmin units and honestly I just do everything through Gaia now. So easy and its web/app based and you can do all the editing you need to do.

 

[SmoothLC]

Ya @guardcompany, I was quoting @Desert Dino above and accidentally quoted yours too.
I'm also a big fan of Gaia and was wondering what if any benefits such an app would benefit beyond Gaia.
Sorry for the confusion.

 

[coleAK]

I use a combination of my Garmin inReach, topo’s and Gaia. Also use Hillmap - Backcountry Maps for the Obsessed a ton for pre trip scouting.

 

[Dharma Dude]

I use a combination of my Garmin inReach, topo’s and Gaia. Also use Hillmap - Backcountry Maps for the Obsessed a ton for pre trip scouting.

I didn't know about hillmap. Very cool.