Going to Synthetic (1 Viewer)

[vettenv]

Well been looking at switching to Synthetic Line, kinda confused on what is required for a proper fitment

Im currently working with an Warn Powerplant HP winch rated @ 9500lbs

according to website its 5/16" @ 125 ft wire cable
with warn roller fairlead


Been cruising master pull, IPOR, Viking and slee for ideas and good rope

From what I can tell I can go with 5/16" @ 100ft (shorter line- more pulling power correct?)

Can i upgrade to 3/8"? whats the pro/cons of thicker rope?

Also it looks like I will need to replace the roller fairleads or just go with the Viking Replacement Delrin Fairlead Rollers for around $90

Whats the best option?

So far Iv been looking at masterpull line rated @ 13700 lbs and the viking lines
Which seems to be the better choice of the two.

Also should that cover a landcruiser or truck weightwise or should i opt up to a higher strength?

Any insight would be great

Thanks

 

[Southeast Overland]

Howdy - I put some info below.

From what I can tell I can go with 5/16" @ 100ft (shorter line- more pulling power correct?)

If your winch came with 125' of 5/16" then you can put 125' of 5/16" synthetic on there. The closer you get to your drum the more pulling power you have. 9,500 lbs will only happen on the first layer or two of rope. The further you get away from the drum (more wraps) the more power you lose. You could go with a shorter main line and use an extension line to reach further when you need but for most times get closer to the drum - or what I suggest is to fill your winch (not overfill) and then use a block to double your power.

Can i upgrade to 3/8"? whats the pro/cons of thicker rope?

I have an M8000 and I run 3/8". You won't be able to fit as much but you will have stronger line and a thicker line will give you a longer line life from abrasion.

Also it looks like I will need to replace the roller fairleads or just go with the Viking Replacement Delrin Fairlead Rollers for around $90

Depends. How do your rollers look? You can use rollers as long as they don't have any burs from your cable and the rollers overlap very well in the corners as not to pinch your line.

Whats the best option?

Here is what I'd do. Run 3/8"x100' of Amsteel Blue. You have the option of a thimble end or a hook end - I'd go with a hook. I'd replace your rollers for a Hawse alloy fairlead which is also lighter than your rollers.

So far Iv been looking at masterpull line rated @ 13700 lbs and the viking lines
Which seems to be the better choice of the two.

Base MP and Viking lines are very similar to each other and also to Amsteel Blue, and all are good lines. All three types of lines have solid history. Shoot me a PM if you'd like for me to give you some prices on Southeast Overland's line of recovery gear and winch lines.

Also should that cover a landcruiser or truck weightwise or should i opt up to a higher strength?

Carry a block in addition to the 9,500 lb winch with 3/8" line and you should be good as far as a winch goes. You'll also need to consider other recovery gear (tree straps, recovery straps, D shackles, etc).

 

[spressomon]

Well...I've now owned a couple different synthetic winch lines. IMO the MasterPull Superline XD is the only way to go if you are going to synthetic. I replaced an ORO (very good quality comparable to Viking/Amsteel/etc) that snapped on me during an off angle pull (90*!) a couple years ago that was 3-years old and showing signs of weather effect and light abrasion.

A couple of good reasons it is in a league of its own: All the other synthetic lines are not sheathed. If you get them dirty/muddy they really need to be washed out when you return home to try to keep the abrasives to a minimum; that was a PITA.

Secondly the MP SXD is virtually impervious to UV degradation. And it doesn't tend to sink down into the other layer wraps as you winch.

Cry once!

So I'm running 5/16" x 80' on my Warn 9.5XP; this is about maximum length for this winch at this diameter of the XD (it measures out thicker than they're spec). Nothing wrong with going to 3/8" but you'll probably only be able to spool the 50' length onto your winch. The 5/16" XD line is rated at 21,000lb breaking strength. I've pulled my ~7,500lb LC + 2,700lb KK trailer out of frame deep mud, amongst other recovery events with same, without issue. Most recovery events, mine included, are typically in the 25'-50' range. I also carry a 125' Amsteel Blue winch extension line for those 'just in case I need longer winch line' recovery events (I have used it a couple of times over the years).


However as good as the XD is I still use a piece of heavy nylon fabric (you can buy the velcro versions specifically made for winch line...) if my recovery requires the winch line to cross over anything potentially abrasive...just to make that expensive winch line last longer!

Not sure about MUD members but MP gives 10% off for Expedition Portal folks.

 

[Southeast Overland]

MasterPull's Superline is good good stuff but it is also expensive - costing as much as some winches. I'm happy to sell it to anyone (I'm also a MUD vendor ) but you have to weigh it's cost against how much use and abuse it will get. I've never been let down by Amsteel Blue but many really like the Superline and truthfully I'd run it if Amsteel Blue wasn't so much more popular.

3/8"x50' is not much line, especially when you need to leave at least 8 wraps on your drum to get a good attachment. I'd bet you can get more than 50' of 3/8" on a Warn 9.5XP. Being close to the drum though does give your winch more pulling powa!

I wheel a lot (lucky me) and I winch a lot too (sometimes not lucky me), most often of others and trees, and I often have to reach out past 25-50'. Carrying an extension line is a good idea and mine is 50' but I rarely need it. An extension line over twice that length will be pretty pricey. Having an extension allows you more flexibility in where you anchor to which is always a good thing.

I'm all for carrying adequate recovery gear but you have to be careful not to carry too much. You can get overloaded very quickly and your pockets will get light even quicker!

 

[vettenv]

Guys,

Thanks for the great advice

Ill address in reverse here...

For additional recovery gear Im pretty covered Have (2) ARB snatchstraps @ 24k, couple snatch blocks (will have to check for burring etc) and probably have too many shackles to count haha that I bought rated 4x the vehicle weight. and a nylon 4" tree strap

As far as the Fairlead Im guessing they are in pretty good shape but will inspect once i get back home. Also think im going to have to look at the fitment with the ARB full bumper

I definitely like the idea of the thicker 3/8 rope for durability and cutting the length down. Iv never had to spool out the 125ft so far for a recovery, So im sure going down to say 80 or 100 ft wouldnt compromise me that much. Iv been looking at the winch rope extensions as a fix for this if it comes into play.

Yea Iv read alot of the master pull website and tons of google reviews and from what i have read majority if proper winching and service are followed their product has held up. I also like the fact of the extended life and UV resistant properties it brings to the table. (the truck sits most of the year while im at work)

 

[vettenv]

which hawse fairlead should i run or just replace with plastic rollers?

I have the ARB full winch bumper if it helps

 

[opie74]

which hawse fairlead should i run or just replace with plastic rollers?

I have the ARB full winch bumper if it helps

Any of the hawse fairleads will serve the same purpose. So get the one that fits and is aesthetically pleasing to you.

You don't need a covered line to protect from UV. SK75 is already UV resistant. What some call UV degradation is actually the dye fading, the fiber itself is fine.

As for 5/16 or 3/8..... Make the line the weak link in the circuit. Multiply your loaded rig weight by 3 and choose the appropriate rated line. One of the benefits of synthetic line is if it does break, you can put it back together with no loss of strength if spliced correctly. I am not a fan of suggesting upsizing to cover anticipated abrasion. If your line is chaffed, you don't know how weak it really is. Best bet is to cut the abrasion out and splice the line back together.

 

[Southeast Overland]

I am not a fan of suggesting upsizing to cover anticipated abrasion. If your line is chaffed, you don't know how weak it really is. Best bet is to cut the abrasion out and splice the line back together.

Up sizing to help with abrasion is only one of the benefits of a larger diameter line - and my suggestion covered not just spot abrasion, but general wear and tear on the entire length of line. You never know how strong your line is as there are even variances in new lines, but a larger line will be stronger and provide longer life with all else being equal (unless we get into the Superlines by MasterPull which are a different ball game).

 

[opie74]

Up sizing to help with abrasion is only one of the benefits of a larger diameter line - and my suggestion covered not just spot abrasion, but general wear and tear on the entire length of line. You never know how strong your line is as there are even variances in new lines, but a larger line will be stronger and provide longer life with all else being equal (unless we get into the Superlines by MasterPull which are a different ball game).

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea. But it may instill a false sense of security.

"my line looks like it's getting worn out, but I upsized so I should be able to do this one more pull." or "one section of my line has lost the 25% strand volume the manufacturer says is it's service limit, but I upsized so ill be ok."

Now granted I'm kinda OCD when it comes to line condition...... So take my opinion with a grain of salt.

 

[95LCMachine]

weight savings?

What is the typical weight savings when switching from a steel to synthetic line of equal size? Is that the primary reason for switching lines or is it normal wear that warants this switch?

Does anyone make a hawes fairlead for steel lines?
Or a low profile roller fairlead?

Thanks!

 

[Southeast Overland]

An alloy Hawse fairlead will be torn up very quickly by a steel line.

Synthetics are lighter (IIRC about 1/7 the weight of steel), safer when they break (retain less energy), easier to work with, float, more flexible...

If your steel line is worn out then that is a great time to switch - but many switch when there is plenty of life left in their steel line for the reasons above.

 

[Dell]

What is the typical weight savings when switching from a steel to synthetic line of equal size? Is that the primary reason for switching lines or is it normal wear that warants this switch?

maybe 30 - 40 lbs dependent on cable Dia./length being replaced
Safety is more of the primary consideration for me.
Tho' any diet for muh junk... is a win win deal.

Does anyone make a hawes fairlead for steel lines?
Or a low profile roller fairlead?

Thanks!

I don't like roller fair leads... they stick out too far...
and I just end up smashing the crap outta them.

A steel hawse is available for steel cable use...
An alloy hawse is recommended for synthetic
^ tho a steel hawse could work for synthetic... short term
*as long as it were new and not chewed up from previous steel cable use.

Tho' I prefer the softer metal of the alloy when using synthetic,
as that offers less wear on the synthetic rope.
Think I have seen somewhere, a delrin made hawse, designed specifically for synthetic rope.
'bout all I know about that, and was kinda pricey.

 

[95LCMachine]

thanks Dell and Eventhough. Good consise information.

30-40lbs. is a considerable weight savings IMO.

I will be sure to revisit this post when its time to upgrade!
Thanks

 

[Master Pull]

However as good as the XD is I still use a piece of heavy nylon fabric (you can buy the velcro versions specifically made for winch line...) if my recovery requires the winch line to cross over anything potentially abrasive...just to make that expensive winch line last longer!

Not sure about MUD members but MP gives 10% off for Expedition Portal folks.

We can do a discount if they call us up, but I haven't turned in our vendor app for MUD yet so until then I am not here to sell products. Instead I will help out the members over here make informed decisions.

As was stated earlier the higher quality MP ropes like Superline and Superline XD do cost more, but you have to weigh the lifetime of the rope vs the cost. I have an XD that was previously on my bosses rig for what I thought was 5 or 6 years, but I looked through older records and found it is about 8 years old now. It is still going strong and works very well. I park my rig outside and don't worry about trying to keep the line clean or neat. The outer braided cover on the XD isn't meant to make the line invincible in the rocks, but instead keep it impervious from grit working its way between the fibers. We have often times seen XD lines that have fuzzy parts, but it is only in the cover.

Any synthetic rope can be made to last a long time if it is well taken care of, no matter what care should be taken before winching over anything sharp. For this reason we include 3 ft removable rock guards with all of our lines that can be placed wherever they are needed.

-Alex