Getting it road worthy. Whats wrong with the carb.

[Slow Left]

In short, yes on the desmog and not really necessary on the Weber.

Making that decision (whether to keep it smogged or do a desmog) is probably the best decision you could make in your situation, in my opinion.

If you desmog, makes things simpler/cleaner (a tiny bit of increase in performance), but you have to live in a county/state that allows it. And it will make resell maybe more difficult because you limit your sale to potential customers who don't have to pass smog or are willing to resmog.

If you decide not to do the desmog, then yes, you will be forced to work through all the Emission Systems and components to get the rig running correctly.

The Aisin carb is a fine carb, I don't see the need to switch to a Weber. Either rebuild the Aisin yourself (see videos online by @Pin_Head on Aisin carb rebuild) or, if you do the desmog, you can send it out with the distributor to get rebuilt by Jim C. (@FJ40Jim ).

If you do the desmog, you need to get the dizzy recurved anyway since removing the EGR changes the ignition advance timing requirements.

Below are instructions for desmog:

 

[LAgallegos]

Yeah i'm feeling the complicated-ness of all this smog crap. Last car i worked on was from 76 and it had one egr thing on the exhaust pipe and that was it by itself. So much simpler.

You know about how much that costs?

 

[Slow Left]

For Jim C. carb rebuild and dizzy recurve, better ask him directly. He also might have the hardware (idler pulley to replace smog pump, plates and plugs to cover manifold ports/air injection ports...) you need to.

His contact info should be here on MUD somewhere...send him a PM (private message - which, on this new MUD board design means 'Start a Conversation') ...here is his website:

http://www.tlcperformance.com/

If you want to rebuild the carb yourself, the Pin Head videos are free, the FSM lays it all out and a kit costs ~$50 and NAPA sells the secondary diaphragm (doesn't come with the kit), but since you've got to get the dizzy recurved anyway and Jim's pretty much the only guy around who does it, then sending both the dizzy and carb off to him might cost a little more, but he will do a better job rebuilding the carb than you.

Also, lots of folks go with Trollhole (that's his MUD name) carbs. I'm not sure if Trollhole offers a recurved dizzy, but lots of folks use his carbs. Not sure what the costs are on those, you'll have to send him a PM too.

Here's info on him. Appears he's over in Greenville SC:

https://www.facebook.com/Trollholes

 

[Slow Left]

Forgot to mention, though, even if you do do the desmog and get the carb rebuilt and dizzy recurved, the idle problem might still persist because it could be caused by a vac leak from intake manifold gasket, cracked intake manifold below the carb, or bad insulator gasket. So if you are going to spend the money to get the carb rebuilt and dizzy recurved, plane the manifolds (see previous thread) and install new manifold gasket, insulator gasket and make sure the intake manifold is good before you pay to get it planed.

 

[Pin_Head]

Desmog is a misnomer. A lot of the electromechanical engine control on FJ60s is about making them run better under more different circumstances and get better fuel economy. Removing it will lose these advantages and run the same it does when they are broken. There is no performance gain. Fuel economy may go down. It is a lot of work for nothing.
Lose, lose, lose.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

EGR is not about making the engine run better. EVAP is not about making the engine run better.

Choke breaker, automatic vacuum advance yes, agreed they help the engine run better. I think it's pretty common to do a desmog (remove EGR at minimum) and have the motor run better in all conditions while leaving the choke breaker and vacuum advance systems in-tact and operational.

 

[Slow Left]

Yeah, assuming your in North Carolina, Johnny (@GLTHFJ60 ) will have the low-down on local 60 stuff...like the right shop to get those manifolds planed once you pull them to replace the manifold gasket. You want to make sure that the shop knows what they are doing, and if they are familiar with FJ60s.

But from your avatar, it's not clear where in North Carolina you are. Is LA Louisiana or Los Angeles? Are there a lot of Gallegos in LA?...

EDIT: ...and before you know it, you'll be driving an FJ60 with a 4BT and 37's...

 

[Pin_Head]

EGR is not about making the engine run better. EVAP is not about making the engine run better.

The EGR is also about improving fuel economy by reducing pumping losses at high speed cruising. EVAP is also about your cab not stinking of gasoline.

It is not just about smog.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

When I explain reasons for the desmog on older 40s, 55s and 60s is that when the emissions equipment breaks, it can cause the engine to run worse. Agreed? Replacing the emissions components can be prohibitively expensive, correct? Agreed, it's not just about smog.

I'd have to look into efficiency or power losses when properly removing emissions systems, but I'd bet that the losses of removing the EGR would be minimal.

 

[Pin_Head]

When I explain reasons for the desmog on older 40s, 55s and 60s is that when the emissions equipment breaks, it can cause the engine to run worse. Agreed? Replacing the emissions components can be prohibitively expensive, correct?

Agree: When the emission/engine control breaks or is removed during a "desmog", it can run worse.

Fixing or repairing the components is not prohibitively expensive because you can get good used parts at the pick n pull.

 

[Slow Left]

I don't know what the correct metric is for measuring the cost/benefit in terms of smog/desmog for performance/smog factors, but every time I look at the engine bay on my rig (fully smogged) I can't help but come to the conclusion that the engineers who, in the early '80s where suddenly required to meet new federal emissions guidelines, put all those vac operated switches and smog components in there were taking neither efficiency nor performance into consideration.

In other words, they didn't go back to the drawing board and rethink the design of the internal combustion engine...simply because consumers (or even regulators) weren't demanding it and the last thing manufacturers wanted was to have to incur the cost of retooling their manufacturing lines.

For me, their solution was the political cost of doing business in the market at that time...

Even with gas prices as high as they are today, and with stricter federal emissions guidelines, I don't think it will be a redesigned internal combustion engine that will be the game changer in the performance/emissions tradeoff...it will be the electric motors that will be the game changer. As soon as the American consumer realizes the orders of magnitude increase in performance of the electric motor over the internal combustion engine, demand will drive the cost down as manufactures ride the learning curve and scale up.

That being said, I will still have my 60 and by then it will be a diesel with an H55f 5 speed...

 

[Pin_Head]

No doubt that Federal and state emissions regulations were driving more and more engine control, but also Federal corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards. It gets better after '87 because it is a little simpler, more robust and more effective with EFI engines.

 

[gregnash]

Talk to @klinetime574 about the desmog and weber usage. I believe he recently went back to a stock Aisin carb after futzing with his weber for years. Think he is even in your area. You also have to remember that when you do a desmog most of the equipment is so rusted that it will break, necessitating a replacement part ($$$). Unless you plan on keeping the vehicle until it goes to the scrap heap or throwing a more efficient engine in and selling later, then it will greatly reduce your seller market.

 

[Slow Left]

No doubt that Federal and state emissions regulations were driving more and more engine control, but also Federal corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) standards. It gets better after '87 because it is a little simpler, more robust and more effective with EFI engines.

Exactly. And in 1981 all that car manufacturers selling to the US market were doing is dumping these vac operated Emissions systems on top of their existing products...

And I think one can make an even stronger argument for it being merely a political solution to doing business when one considers that even without the catalytic converters (which were forced by US law onto all manufacturers) the Japanese manufacturers were meeting the CAFE requirements. Given the rise of popularity of Japanese imports by American consumers at the time and the protectionist stance of American policy makers (for the benefit of Detroit), yet another reason why those early 1980 solutions didn't really resolve much either on the policy (environmental) end or the product engineering (performance) end...thus the time lag until EFI.

 

[Slow Left]

Talk to @klinetime574 about the desmog and weber usage. I believe he recently went back to a stock Aisin carb after futzing with his weber for years. Think he is even in your area. You also have to remember that when you do a desmog most of the equipment is so rusted that it will break, necessitating a replacement part ($$$). Unless you plan on keeping the vehicle until it goes to the scrap heap or throwing a more efficient engine in and selling later, then it will greatly reduce your seller market.

I think Kline is in Houston, Texico.

But this point just made me think of another angle you might take to decide to stay smogged or go desmog:

How many miles are on that 2F and has it been rebuilt?

Have you done a compression test on it and if so, what are the numbers?

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

send carb to Mark A or Jim C, buy a Trollhole copycat non USA carb or rebuild your OE carb yourself, but do NOT buy a rebuilt carb (from anyone other than the 3 names I mention) and do NOT waste your time money or agitation on a webber. BTDT on both accounts. some people swear by their webbers, but we aren't driving VWs on a flat paved road now, are we?

 

[lcolon]

The one other name I would add to the carb rebuild list is Gary at mudrak. He did the carb on my truck and I took it to pass smog the next day and it did with flying colors.

I have spent some time maintaining all of the smog gear on my truck (granted it is required in California). If you get the emissions manual, the tests for the various components are all pretty straight forward and can be performed with a vacuum gauge and a rpm meter. I have had to replace a couple of vsv components and the valve that controls the egr. Besides that, the truck runs great from sea level to 10k feet.

The Aisin carb or the troll hole copy of the desmogged carb are the best performers for the cruiser.

 

[Slow Left]

If you get the emissions manual, the tests for the various components are all pretty straight forward and can be performed with a vacuum gauge and a rpm meter.

This is a really good point. It may seem overwhelming, but as you work through the FSM tests, each system in the Emissions becomes more and more familiar and as you fix each system, it improves the overall performance. Just confusing at the start....

 

[klinetime574]

"Houston, Texico"

The Aisan carb is a beautiful little device. I have not taken apart a Weber, pulled that off. Need to sell it.

The Weber gave me strong throttle response and about the same mileage. I would have stuck with it, but I had the burning desire to rebuild my stock carb. I had my stock carb in a box for ~6 years and a rebuild kit so I did it. Spent a little coin on the emissions pieces needed to have a desmog set-up, but hey, it was worth it.

If you're going to rebuild the stock carb follow the @Pin_Head videos. They are very helpful. And then be prepared to tinker with it for a few weeks to get the perfect idle, performance, mileage, etc. I use an analog RPM engine diagnosing tool and also my in-cab vacuum gauge to tune and diagnose. I've gotta clean something on mine, got advice that the float may be sticking.

@LAgallegos Any questions, post pictures, ask. We are here to help out

 

[elripster]

Removing the air pump will increase efficiency by removing a parasitic loss.

Frank