general contractor question - plumbing fixtures (1 Viewer)

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erics_bruisers

erics_bruisers

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Mar 28, 2003
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So, I am trying to source my plumbing hardware myself -- Kohler hardware, through someone at Home Depot who will give me a good discount on it -- basically, spcial order parts --

-- I have faxed the list to Kohler in Wisconsin, and they reviewed the part numbers with me, and confirmed everything was tight.

Now, I speak to the General, and she say the plumber wants to source the plumbing materials at the local (sorry) Fxxx shop --

-- the shop comes in $3500 higher than my quote -- and I say, "Why can't we pay the plumber for the work he does, using supplied parts?"

She says, "Well, he might just increase his labor fee for the install then" --

-- and she says, too, that if there's ANY hardware missing, he can call his price for time and parts to get such a part --

-- something is wrong here, and I am not sure what to do. Get my own plumber? I want to be fair, but I also want to be reasonable --

-- I don't want to pay some inflated mark-up prices in a good old-boy system -- that burns me up -- and I can't afford it.

e
 
have the plumber install the bottom line cheap crap. go back and replace with the stuff you want later
 
beaufort-fj60 said:
have the plumber install the bottom line cheap crap. go back and replace with the stuff you want later
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now THAT'S a good idea -- :D
 
It shouldn't be a problem with most plumbers. If they wont do it I think I would find another plumber. You don't need to pay them to go buy the parts, you're paying them for their knowledge and skill not their ability to mark up parts. Most plumbers don't care where the parts are from unless they are low quality and are harder to work with. It's probably the GC thats trying to screw you, because they mark it up again.

Does it give you the option in your contract if you have one?
 
It's viewed the same as bringing your own oil to your mechanic for an oil change. Find a different plumber or let him make his cut on the parts.

BTW - I've always been a big fan of Kohler and used them exclusively for my remodel. Very disappointed that every faucet was leaking (drip, drip, drip) in less than 3 years. Not the quality they used to have....
 
Jetboy said:
It shouldn't be a problem with most plumbers. If they wont do it I think I would find another plumber. You don't need to pay them to go buy the parts, you're paying them for their knowledge and skill not their ability to mark up parts. Most plumbers don't care where the parts are from unless they are low quality and are harder to work with. It's probably the GC thats trying to screw you, because they mark it up again.

Does it give you the option in your contract if you have one?
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I am wrasslin' with her now on the contract -- I will either get another plumber, or put low-grade stuff in and replace it --

-- I am swaying towards getting another plumber -- because their existing plumber is going to screw me --

-- she said, "you did this on the windows, too" -- I'm like "hell YES I did it on the windows -- your boy came in at $38K with Pella Designers, no shades, and I got Andersen 400s -- same package -- at $21K" --

-- these people are somewhat medieval -

e
 
WTF is wrong with your contractor? She shouldn't have a problem with you doing any of this. Sounds like she's got subs that are a bit on the questionable side...

Find your own plumber and window installer...or maybe get a new contractor and let the new one know of your plans BEFORE a contract is signed.

On a different note...eric -- I'm still waiting for your strategy to correct the problem of what many people think are "problem" or "dangerous" dogs, namely pit bulls? What would you do to solve the problem? You're obviously against banning the breed -- what would be your solution? Feel free to respond in this thread.
 
I do a lot of construction work (not a contractor) and frankly getting your GC liscense must be about as easy as getting a drivers liscense, because I seem to be fixing a lot of the "pro's" work.... It sounds like with the time you've put into this problem, you could have put the fixtures in yourself already. Have a plumber plumb your house..... that's enough, and don't believe for a second that any of them know their a$$ from a sink drain till they prove they do.
 
cxs said:
It's viewed the same as bringing your own oil to your mechanic for an oil change. Find a different plumber or let him make his cut on the parts.

BTW - I've always been a big fan of Kohler and used them exclusively for my remodel. Very disappointed that every faucet was leaking (drip, drip, drip) in less than 3 years. Not the quality they used to have....
Click to expand...

I just finished changing out a valve on a Kohler faucet that listed for $595 when we bought it eight years ago. :eek: I was pretty pissed--faucet didn't get that much use, no reason for it to drip. I noticed the old valve had a plastic collar on it, the replacement one had a metal one--I'm thinking they made a bad decision a number of years ago in the materials in their valves, hopefully that's now rectified.

It's funny--I couldn't get the old valve out, every time I turned the wrench, the whole faucet would turn. I tried a monkey wrench and vice grips underneath, still couldn't hold it still. Finally, I thought, "What would a plumber do?" Well, a plumber would just force it and fix the damage later. :D So, that's what I did. And I left the corkscrewed copper lines where they were, since they weren't leak. :D





Eric--find a plumber that's fine with you supplying the fixtures. You are buying their labor, not their connections. Also, don't discount the idea of going to a plumbing supply place and ordering that way--the one near me was able to beat Home Depot's price by a good bit. :eek: Including delivery to my doorstep. :eek: :eek:
 
Oh, yeah, and I fired by GC's plumbing subcontrator and hired my own, taking that part of the job out of the GC's domain. We settled up for the partial rough-in, and the GC was fine with it. :) Then, a few weeks later, I fired the GC. :D

Power of the purse, baby. :grinpimp:
 
fsusteve said:
Yer using a chick as yer GC? Dude, go find the old guy who knows his s***, not the cheap one that thinks it would be fun to build a house...
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nothing against old guys, but if this is not sexist, I don't know............:eek:
 
Eric, if you are just talking faucets, just have the plumber finish out the stubs with shutoff valves and install them yourself. Sinks are not a problem, either.
My plumber told us where to go and pick out the stuff and gave us his price which was considerably less..................like 40% less.


JMO

Ed
 
If it were me I would have the plumber do just the rough-in & you install the fixtures yourself. Then when its your turn you can hire a plumber to come in & do the finish or do it yourself.

As for the windows, you can install those yourself also. Just follow the instructions provided with the windows & you will do a FAR better job than most framers or installers that set windows.

Your GC & subs are just paying games (welcome to construction)
 
thanks for this, all --

-- yup, HD was giving me a 35% discount -- and that goes a long way --

-- cash is cash, and the day the CO is issued, the builder won't be returning my calls --

-- THAT i need to remember -- :D
 
Not sure I get this. You hired a GC who in turn hires the subs. Now your GC is telling you that the sub makes the rules? That's just wrong :ban:

My GC doesn't give a hoot if I want to supply parts or do some of the work myself. We discuss it, and he makes it happen. That's what a GC is supposed to do. If you're finding that you have to do all the work yourself, then I don't know why you're paying a GC. Maybe you need to dump that GC and get a real one.
 
Scamper said:
Not sure I get this. You hired a GC who in turn hires the subs. Now your GC is telling you that the sub makes the rules? That's just wrong :ban:

My GC doesn't give a hoot if I want to supply parts or do some of the work myself. We discuss it, and he makes it happen. That's what a GC is supposed to do. If you're finding that you have to do all the work yourself, then I don't know why you're paying a GC. Maybe you need to dump that GC and get a real one.
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Double true. :grinpimp:
 
the GC test here in Virginia deals more with the legal aspects of building than the actual construction portion...liens, loans, and liability...

bk
 
Before the big box stores were common, contractors made some of their income from the mark-up on materials. I used to charge the retail price and buy it for wholesale. This additional income covered the warrenty that I was putting on someone elses material. Since big box stores became common and some wholesalers started to retail, there is not much money to be made in materials any more. I used to run into this problem all the time. I always told my clients that if they want to supply materials I am OK with it but that includes delivery and placement, and if they are short I will charge wait time for them to get more or I will charge dearly to go pick it up. I will also not warrent the material. I know people are trying to save money when they do this, but they often do not fully appreciate what they are paying for when they hire a GC or a full service sub. If a client wants their own subs for some trades, I would remove that portion of the job entirely from the estimate and let the client deal with their sub entirely. I also warned that if scheduling got screwed up by their sub, then there may be penalties or delays as a result. Usualy after I explained the benefits of using a GC and letting the GC manage the job, they agreed and I would supply materials and subs.
In your case Eric, if your material or your plumber cause a leak that damages drywall or flooring or cabinetry, who is responsible for repair? What if it holds up the job? If there is one person responsible for everything, then there should be no problem with who takes the blame and the cost. When more than one person is involved then if there is a problem everyone points fingers and no one wants to take responsibility.
It sounds like you are doing a lot of the GC stuff on this job already. Why are you paying 10%-15% extra to the GC you have? You are not like the majority of people that want a turn-key, hand-off project.

Sorry for the length of this monologue.

And yeah, I like arts and crafts/ mission as well.
 
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