Haven't read the whole thread, but could the noise be caused by the TWO BRICKS where your winch should be???
FZJ80 making high pitch whine/vibes on freeway in axle or drivetrain help!?
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- #22
Here’s a video, it’s the higher pitched squeal/whine that pipes in. I’ll include the minutes/seconds also where it’s loudest.
s***, how do you attach a video clip?
s***, how do you attach a video clip?
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- #23
Good thought. I take the weight in and out as it helps settle in the front end & improve ride quality until I buy a winch. No affect on the vibes/howling noise though unfortunately...
I will set the next hit with a question.
Why did you change to 4.88 two years ago?
Damage?
Tire size?
Just cause you wanna?
Your answer here affects my diagnosis.
Why did you change to 4.88 two years ago?
Damage?
Tire size?
Just cause you wanna?
Your answer here affects my diagnosis.
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- #25
Zero damage
Wanted more torque and drivability with 35’s on
And I wanna
.hindsight is a bitch though, 5.29’s would be my recommendation for anyone doing the same build. Still leaves lots to be desired on 4:88’s & 35’s.
Dude, something has ate sh**t in your diff with chunks like that on the plug.
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- #27
Damn.... my gut tells me that also, but I was kinda hoping for more like “ bro it’s all good!”
. Lol. Reality can be a bitch. thanks for your honesty, sincerely. This is the honest experience and feedback I’m hoping for. . I’ll post a pic of the second diff oil change shavings after 4:88 gear change to see what your thoughts are on that....
Wait and see what the more experienced guys have to say, but I think your front diff is toast. Pull the diff and have a look would be my next move. Be sure to post pics too lolDamn.... my gut tells me that also, but I was kinda hoping for more like “ bro it’s all good!”
thanks for your honesty, sincerely. This is the honest experience and feedback I’m hoping for. . I’ll post a pic of the second diff oil change shavings after 4:88 gear change to see what your thoughts are on that....
View attachment 2144903
View attachment 2144904
Don’t sweat it to bad, really not a crazy expensive fix if you do it yourself you can rebuild your front diff with new R&P and an install kit for about 500$ish depending on what brands you want.
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That is way more metal on the drain plug than what should show up during any kind of break-in... or anytime for that matter. Chunks like that would have me pulling the 3rd member. Setup of the ring & pinion needs to be perfect. I will bet money that something was missed during the installation and that metal is from the ring gear. Hence the whining.
Better to have happened close to home... versus 50 miles in the middle of nowhere. Once ring & pinions start to disintegrate they go away fast!
Better to have happened close to home... versus 50 miles in the middle of nowhere. Once ring & pinions start to disintegrate they go away fast!
Maybe they left the oil retainer out and cooked the pinion bearings, that would be easy to do if you aren’t paying attention or unfamiliar with that high pinion diff.
Bc that part dosnt come with most install kits.
Bc that part dosnt come with most install kits.
Well, yes. It's having a serious issue.
I was hoping you were going to say it was damaged and you replaced it because of that. Then it could have been that they didn't get it cleaned out .
But no, you need a rebuild.
Do a search here for Zuk and pull the diff and ship it to him. He will rebuild and ship it back.
All he does are Toyota diffs and he's the best. If I need, I will ship mine to him when it's time for mine.
I was hoping you were going to say it was damaged and you replaced it because of that. Then it could have been that they didn't get it cleaned out .
But no, you need a rebuild.
Do a search here for Zuk and pull the diff and ship it to him. He will rebuild and ship it back.
All he does are Toyota diffs and he's the best. If I need, I will ship mine to him when it's time for mine.
Toyota Gear Install Eaton
ZUK shares many close-up good pics of Toyota gear installs
That's Zuk (Ken Francisco)
He's in Chandler, AZ
Those look like cage pieces from your pinion bearings and that would make sense with the noise you're hearing.
Don't drive it unless you must. Removing the front DS will remove load but won't stop it from spinning unless you remove the drive flanges on the hubs.
Good luck!
Don't drive it unless you must. Removing the front DS will remove load but won't stop it from spinning unless you remove the drive flanges on the hubs.
Good luck!
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I thoroughly agree with sending your diff out to ZUK.. @gearinstalls.com . He is the absolute best and all he does is 3rd members (at least as far as I know). He did the work on my carriers.. 4:88s and Harrops. Incredible service.. very communicative.. sends photos of each step.. and seriously knows Toyota setup without a fault. Plus he is not uber expensive. I felt he was perfectly priced for the work he does. I can easily bet if he did your gearing.. you would not be having the trouble and expense you are now experiencing!
I agree, probably pinion bearings. I’d bet one of two things will be missing when you pull it out, either they didn’t put a new oil retainer underneath the outer bearing race. Or if the R&P was upgraded to a 29 spline the oil slinger won’t go back in without grinding it out bigger, and they didn’t bother with it.
So, I'm not worried about any of the debris you have there except for the two pieces in the last closeup. I think it's mere lighting but do you have those around to still look at? The one indeed looks like a sheetmetal bearing retainer piece or similar. If it's not - a chunk of metal vs a piece of sheetmetal then don't worry about it. Years ago when my 80 had about 3000 miles on it I changed the diffs out to synthetic and was bummed about the amount of swarf. So I cleaned and bagged it and brought it to work at Toyota US HQ and showed it to the Chief Engineer for the Gen 4 Supra. He looked it over very carefully and said it was normal left over swarf and nothing to worry about. That was 230,000 miles ago and my diffs are dead silent.
If you don't have the pieces and cannot verify, based on my expectation that by now you'd have MUCH more noise if a bearing cage let loose, I would chalk that up to a trick of the light. Seriously, you'd have pretty evident issues and noise after driving how many thousands of miles? And where are the bearings that would definitely have been displaced and gone through the gears or to the drain?
So I pronounce that debris not a problem despite these doomsday guys! (Heh). Back to the whine.
I can't speak to the original rear diff heavier tapping. Honestly to hear something like that and now it's gone is really the biggest mystery here to me. If it's gone, its gone but I'd definitely wonder about it and drain the rear diff myself because things hitting other things in a differential housing are going to leave evidence at the drain plug. Do that for sure no matter what else you do.
I think the tire change was the clue I was looking for to support my theory, which is you have tires that have worn or factory variances to create different diameters. In high range, the Cruiser has a VC-like device in the center diff that will allow slight RPM differences in F/R drive shafts while maintaining full 4WD torque to all 4 tires. In practical terms, at the diff gears, if you have a tire size variation the gear tips are departing each other under the exact tension of that device, which is very high. I'm going to trust that you are doing a good job of feathering the throttle when the sound is loudest such that you are discovering the point where there is no engine torque firmly against the drive side of the gears and no significant torque against the coast side.
What I suspect you are hearing is that you EXPECT no whine in that sweet spot, but you are getting one because your two axles are rotating at different speeds and on one set (perhaps the front) the diff gear teeth are departing under coast torque and the other set (perhaps the rear) the diff gear teeth are departing under drive torque. Yet you are in the sweet spot for no engine torque, so it's puzzling. Similarly, the front drive shaft as I describe it is operating under coast torque and the rear shaft under drive torque.
I suggest you go for a drive and get some new experience with the noise and how it sounds, then immediately swap tires F/R and go for a drive again and see if you experience a difference. I think this is all it is. After that you can go full anal and take a cargo strap and a sharpie and measure each tire's circumference with it (make sharpie marks and then measure and label each tire's actual C) so you can then install them to minimize that noise effect and see if it is reduced or minimized. If you need input on that, let me know.
So the sky is not falling here.
If you don't have the pieces and cannot verify, based on my expectation that by now you'd have MUCH more noise if a bearing cage let loose, I would chalk that up to a trick of the light. Seriously, you'd have pretty evident issues and noise after driving how many thousands of miles? And where are the bearings that would definitely have been displaced and gone through the gears or to the drain?
So I pronounce that debris not a problem despite these doomsday guys! (Heh). Back to the whine.
I can't speak to the original rear diff heavier tapping. Honestly to hear something like that and now it's gone is really the biggest mystery here to me. If it's gone, its gone but I'd definitely wonder about it and drain the rear diff myself because things hitting other things in a differential housing are going to leave evidence at the drain plug. Do that for sure no matter what else you do.
I think the tire change was the clue I was looking for to support my theory, which is you have tires that have worn or factory variances to create different diameters. In high range, the Cruiser has a VC-like device in the center diff that will allow slight RPM differences in F/R drive shafts while maintaining full 4WD torque to all 4 tires. In practical terms, at the diff gears, if you have a tire size variation the gear tips are departing each other under the exact tension of that device, which is very high. I'm going to trust that you are doing a good job of feathering the throttle when the sound is loudest such that you are discovering the point where there is no engine torque firmly against the drive side of the gears and no significant torque against the coast side.
What I suspect you are hearing is that you EXPECT no whine in that sweet spot, but you are getting one because your two axles are rotating at different speeds and on one set (perhaps the front) the diff gear teeth are departing under coast torque and the other set (perhaps the rear) the diff gear teeth are departing under drive torque. Yet you are in the sweet spot for no engine torque, so it's puzzling. Similarly, the front drive shaft as I describe it is operating under coast torque and the rear shaft under drive torque.
I suggest you go for a drive and get some new experience with the noise and how it sounds, then immediately swap tires F/R and go for a drive again and see if you experience a difference. I think this is all it is. After that you can go full anal and take a cargo strap and a sharpie and measure each tire's circumference with it (make sharpie marks and then measure and label each tire's actual C) so you can then install them to minimize that noise effect and see if it is reduced or minimized. If you need input on that, let me know.
So the sky is not falling here.
When your done doing all that, pull the front third out bc it’s shot lol
But might as well try to eliminate everything else first, I hope I’m wrong and you get an easy fix.
But might as well try to eliminate everything else first, I hope I’m wrong and you get an easy fix.
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A "shot" front third would make a lot more racket than what he's describing. I replace a "shot" front third in my brother in law's 93 because he's an idiot and let the fluid go low. It makes a constant whine and howl. That's not what I'm hearing the PO describe.
Personally, I'd rather spend an hour in clean dry clothes doing the exercise I describe than get all grubby and pull the third, pay $100 shipping each way while the truck's disabled for 2 weeks and have the shop say "looks fine". But that's me. I have always found checking the easy stuff first pays dividends.
Personally, I'd rather spend an hour in clean dry clothes doing the exercise I describe than get all grubby and pull the third, pay $100 shipping each way while the truck's disabled for 2 weeks and have the shop say "looks fine". But that's me. I have always found checking the easy stuff first pays dividends.
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- #40
Wow you guys are amazing, thanks so much for putting so many awesome thoughts and responses!! I’m stoked for the help and support while I try and figure this out.
I’m thinking I’ll follow Idaho Doug’s suggestions to keep the troubleshoot going. He doesn’t mess around with his troubleshooting seems like!!
I also messaged Zuk, I’m super curious to see what he thinks about the shavings and symptoms...
It does seem weird to get such different vibration and the howling sound only with these smaller BFG’s switched on the rig. I’m actually thinking I’ll swap the tires around as suggested to keep the closest same size Tires on either the front or rear and see what that does right now.
I’m not entirely sure the noise is correlated to the metal shavings as of yet, but it’s not comforting either way. I’m glad I don’t drive the FJ80 much (only to Moab once or twice a year really) so hopefully if the front diff is jacked it didn’t hurt anything else and it can be warrantied.
I didn’t Jeep the shavings, in hindsight that would have been a good idea. They were chunky though with larger bits, maybe more “cage like” bits than just smaller metallic shavings and bits...
Anyone deal with a Nitro gear warranty yet?
I’m thinking I’ll follow Idaho Doug’s suggestions to keep the troubleshoot going. He doesn’t mess around with his troubleshooting seems like!!
I also messaged Zuk, I’m super curious to see what he thinks about the shavings and symptoms...
It does seem weird to get such different vibration and the howling sound only with these smaller BFG’s switched on the rig. I’m actually thinking I’ll swap the tires around as suggested to keep the closest same size Tires on either the front or rear and see what that does right now.
I’m not entirely sure the noise is correlated to the metal shavings as of yet, but it’s not comforting either way. I’m glad I don’t drive the FJ80 much (only to Moab once or twice a year really) so hopefully if the front diff is jacked it didn’t hurt anything else and it can be warrantied.
I didn’t Jeep the shavings, in hindsight that would have been a good idea. They were chunky though with larger bits, maybe more “cage like” bits than just smaller metallic shavings and bits...
Anyone deal with a Nitro gear warranty yet?
